Its 2018.
The United States is a world power and a nation of educated, 1st world people.
The fix for illegal aliens entering our country is not a wall or tighter borders.
The fix, the real fix, is to remove the reason why people would want to illegally enter.

Think about it for a minute.

Why do people try to come to the United States from Mexico illegally?
We don't have that issue at our Canadian border.

As a 1st world power we have the intelligence and the resources to help Mexico also become a 1st world power. What keeps Mexico from attaining that status?
Corruption.

There are entities in Mexico that want to end corruption. They want to end cartel power and remove the oppression from their country.
The United States has this war on drugs thing going but its the most ineffective war ever fought.
This is because there are limits to how it must be fought. There is corrupt people in power in Mexico that prevents doing what needs to be done.

We have the ability to work with the Mexican government to end the cartels and the oppression by corruption in Mexico but we don't.
To remove the illegal immigration problem the fix is to cause the people not to want to or need to leave their country in search of a better life.
Bring Mexico to 1st world status.
Then Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Columbia and right on down the continent.
Go in and permanently remove the oppression. Eliminate the cartels and warmongers. Establish national pride in the people for their own home country and they won't want to come to the United States for a better life.

Canada and USA help Mexico fix Mexico.
Canada, USA and Mexico help Guatemala fix Guatemala and so on.
It could be done. Yes, warmongers and cartels would die. Oppressive regimes would be toppled and a lot of people would have to be jailed or eliminated but it could be done.

Why are cartels still in power in Mexico?
Because it is more profitable to allow them power and influence.
The DEA needs drugs in the USA. They Want drugs in the USA.

Remove the reason why someone would want to escape their country and you significantly reduce the number of illegal immigrants seeking a better life. End 3rd world oppression and people won't have a reason to leave their country.
Few 1st world immigrants are illegal.

Everything you just said... Ditto, I've been screaming this for years. Make Mexico great and North America as a whole would be befit greatly.

Well that sounds nice but you cant fix a country when

1) You have a war on drugs

2) you have governments that don't understand the power of free markets

3) you have businesses that hire illegals that are only fined if they are caught

Even if you build the wall people will still come over.

I like what Canada does and this is why we don't have that problem, we have other problems like Deportees once they are deported are flying or boating to Mexico and the treks through the United States to then sneaks into Canada whether it through B.C/Washington, North Dakota to Manitoba or Vermont to Quebec.

Most of them end up in Toronto, Hamilton or Montreal and they are criminals.

the one thing Canada does right is Illegals cannot get HealthCare card, Drivers license or a temporary SIN card, you call it Social security card there and they cannot get welfare directly.

The problem with Mexico is you have a large portion of the population that is illiterate and uneducated and they have a disadvantage, The Mexican government is having a hard time with them and some of them are easy pickins for the drug cartels.

I compare it to African americans before Civil rights came in, how they were treated as second class citizens , and look how long it took before some of the blacks in America rose up and became prosperous, its going to take something like that to help the poor in Mexico and other places.

If the U.S. Canadian, Mexico, Colombian and other countries are interested in fixing the problem, eliminating the war on drugs is a good start.

But those countries need a system in place to help the underprivileged and welfare isn't the answer.

And American authorities have to use draconian measures against businesses that hire illegals and landlords who houses them.

No more welfare and generous supplementary programs to help them out, if you don't make it hard for them why would they stop coming?

I totally agree, de-sweeten the honey pot... another problem is most of Mexico is Catholic, and don't believe in birth control...the main reason Mexico City is the biggest in the world...

There are ways to change traditional government policy's , with a little pressure from the right sources on the right officials could cause change , probally for the better cause it can't get much worse. Maybe if enough people started protesting the couruption. it has happened in poorer countries .

Lots of very real points that have significant impact.

The thing about illiteracy in 3rd world countries is not a lack of willingness to learn but an oppressive power-base that doesn't want intelligent rationally thinking citizens.
Intelligent, rationally thinking people are harder to control.
Intelligent, rationally thinking people is how 1st world status gets initiated and maintained.

The money needed to create the infrastructure and support the change could be significantly boosted by redistributing the assets of the cartel and corrupt power-base.
If the power-base is eliminated, not jailed, eliminated. There will not be a lingering threat of revenge. If the assets are liquidated to public funds, schools, highways and supporting infrastructure can be built unhampered by oppression.

There are problems in any society but law-abiding national citizens in Canada and the US are not running to Mexico for a better life. Life, in general, is good right where we are.

I wonder if there is a tracking system that lists the reasons why someone chooses to be an illegal immigrant? I'm betting oppression is the major factor in the decision. The better life they seek is the freedom of 1st world countries. Establish that in their home country and they will stay in place.

There is always a certain amount of corruption in any government. The corruption of government in these 3rd world countries has high oppression.
Kill the oppression and people can deal with their corruption. As it is, the people have to submit to the oppression or make a run for freedom of oppression.

The oppressed people need to make a living. The cartels provide jobs to them to make their drug industry profitable.
Remove the cartels and drug industry and put those people to work building highways, schools and communities and allow them a fair wage and things start to pick up for the better fairly quickly. Allow people to have property safe from hostile take-over, allow people to invest in their community and have a say in how that community runs and you get people that are not likely to run.

The first step is to remove the oppressive element.
Help Mexico take out the cartels and oppressive corrupted elements.
Swift, precise, lethal action.

You want to stop illegals from coming to the U.S.?

Pass a law that heavily fines or revokes the business license of anybody who employs an illegal alien.

Ive known people from mexico and they've told me what its like there, if you're upper middle class and higher, educated, and has skill to command a high salary you are doing fine.

For everyone else its not, but its like that for any country, if you have money, or skills are in demand and you are paid handsomely you will do well.

Most of us wouldn't live in Zimbabwe , but if you're rich its almost a paradise.

I look at the african american community, most who are living in the ghettos are not doing well, but those who have money or the skill set are living in the burbs and doing well like a Ben Carson, Oprah, Jay Z and millions of others like them.

People risk life and limb to come to America because the opportunities are tremendous , most foreigners believe America is the land of opportunity and wealth, they marvel at the fact that someone poor can be fat, it absolutely astonishes them.

I knew a guy that played basketball in the European league he was a mid range player earning 2.5K a month compared to if he was in the NBA in America where the lowest paid player earns 500K

No wonder people want to come to America.

I agree with this. And I am a contractor. Many in my field do in fact use illegals because they are cheaper. I don't and at time and during bidding it puts me at a disadvantage.

Case in point, the pizzeria I used to go to for years.

Naples authentic Italian restaurant.. big place


look in the kitchen.. all Mexican cooking the food. The owner doesn't even bother to show up anymore. I won't spend my money there.

Supply& demand

Cut off ( or in this case fine) the demand and the supply dries up

Okay. Well, although there have been international invasions and government decapitations and imperial expansions such as you are advocating, which have happened repeatedly over the thousands of years humans have been around, there has never been an occasion where the strategy of "fixing" another country by invading it, ever actually worked.

And although more thorough enforcement of existing laws against employing illegals might help, you wont find any support for it (past lip service) from either of the largest American political parties. The Republicans used to oppose any attempt to require national identity documentation, and though they've reversed course on that over the years, they are still adamantly opposed to spending the amount of money needed to actually enforce even the existing laws against employing illegals. No one supported Trump's campaign proposal to expand INS or the justice system enough to deal with existing cases, and neither party has supported investigation and prosecution of employers.

If your goal is to make it less desirable to come to the US illegally, there are other options you could consider. Such as,put an end to allowing American companies to hire foreign workers at below living wages, even while they are still in their home countries; to prevent foreign companies from selling in the US market, if their national governments allow either slave labor, or oppression of the working classes.

You could also support the opposite of that, which has been proposed by a subset of the Republicans: reverse all American laws requiring safe working environments, end all anti-pollution controls, eliminate all worker rights entirely, and allow American companies to behave as badly and as corruptly as foreign companies do, so that the US wont be attractive any more.

But invasion and "repair" of foreign countries? It never works.

none of that makes any sense whatsoever....more anti Republican babble?

I guess you read some of what I wrote... I'm not advocating invading anything. Read it again.
I suggested that Canada and USA HELP Mexico not invade Mexico.
Then, Canada, USA and Mexico HELP Guatemala, then Canada, USA, Mexico and Guatemala HELP Honduras and so on down the hemisphere until all the countries on the American Hemisphere are 1st world.

Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?
Earth has the technology and the resources yet the technology and resources are being withheld from global advancement by the stingy, "The Oppressors".

American companies hiring foreign workers even though they live in that country are subject to their local laws not U.S. law, including income and taxes.

They are not breaking any law, it might a bit on the immoral side paying t hem less but laws are laws.

you are right igor, making America unattractive does have a negative impact on people wanting the American dream . The proof is the past eight years under Obama . Easily the worst eight years in recent history. Does that mean that during those years of unattractiveness the illegal aliens that fled here were coming for a free ride. Because according to you , honest people looking for a better life wouldn't come here if it's not attractive.

Sorry if I misinterpreted. I keyed in on the phrases "Go in and permanently remove the oppression," and "Yes, warmongers and cartels would die. Oppressive regimes would be toppled and a lot of people would have to be jailed or eliminated." That read like invasion to me. I sure don't know how to do those things without invading.

How exactly, mechanically, would the US and Canada accomplish this help, that's different from what we've been doing for decades?

You can't understand it, wont research why, and so you post an insult.

Doesn't advance the discussion.

You could also support the opposite of that, which has been proposed by a subset of the Republicans: reverse all American laws requiring safe working environments, end all anti-pollution controls, eliminate all worker rights entirely, and allow American companies to behave as badly and as corruptly as foreign companies do, so that the US wont be attractive any more.


which is exactly where ultraconservative union busting republicans have been leading us for years.

Ultraconservative Union buster here... guilty.

Yes I despise unions, the same union that wouldn't allow blacks to join their ranks ( labour) until LBJ signed the civil rights act.

The same AFL-CIO that wouldn't allow chinese and other minorities.

The same labour unions that was controlled by every Italian mafia family in America even the smallest crime family the Bufalino crime family that had maybe 5 guys and a dog as made members controlled local unions up in North Penn.

How do you think Los Vegas was built?

Unions distort the market economy, from labour to entertainment to sports, you cant tell me that the high sports star salaries is because of capitalism? its because of the unions

By the way no republican, right wingers, conservative supports reversing safe working conditions,eliminating workers rights etc etc etc.

Unions started the decline of American workers not republicans.

Parity in immigration laws would probably
help.

insult? No, not an insult...I'm just commenting on your bashing Republicans as you usually do...I wouldn't have said anything if you hadn't said in a previous topic that you're non biased, just showing you that you are, and probably don't even realize it...it's not something repubs want, to take out safety laws,or pollution control and everything else you've stated about Republicans... Most all laws, no matter the party that enacts or makes them, are based on one of two things - money or peoples stupidity... Most if the laws based on anti pollution are based on money and outright lies, from the liberal side of things...if you give some of the repubs a chance, you might find out that a lot of these anti pollution laws are meaningless and just stifle American growth and economy, like the closing of coal mines that put dozens of communities on the verge of ghost towns in the effort to close down coal fueled electrical plants...the Democrats have done some really bad and stupid things in the last 8 years, and if you were really non biased, I would see at least one comment about that...