I had never thought of that comparison , but there is plenty of kool aid in both camps ...

sorry, I always have to scroll back up to remember the thread topic ...

That's the bottom line.......

IN the eyes of the law, no means no, as far as evidence, 'no' never has to be proven to have taken place. ... but makes it sound a lot more reasonable and just for prosecution.

I completely agree that no means no. Where I have the issue is consent even intoxicated. Men's judgement is impaired the same as a women.

If 1 can use the intoxication excuse, so can the other

Every man should get this app ASAP.

You can get it at https://legalfling.io/

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/04/world/consent-christiane-amanpour-sex-love-around-world/index.html

Karen meets Jeff at a party and he instantly seems like a kindred spirit. She keeps waiting to hear a telltale reference to an absent wife, girlfriend or partner but there's no mention of a significant other.

Jeff looks at her and acknowledges something special is happening; by the end of the night he's climbing the stairs to the fifth-floor walkup Karen shares with roommates. Once inside Karen's room, Jeff grabs his phone and taps a few times.

Karen's phone beeps with an incoming text. She's received a WhatsApp message: "Jeff is requesting sexual consent." There's a heart-shaped icon for yes and an X for no.

Karen can tap the heart and appreciate the fact that Jeff cares about consent. Or she can tap the X and wonder what kind of guy has a sex app on his phone.

This hypothetical situation isn't some future shock "Black Mirror" fiction. A Dutch blockchain company is developing an app called LegalFling that creates sex contracts between consenting adults.
Since users are flocking to apps like Tinder and Grindr to navigate the dating scene, LegalFling's creators reason, how farfetched is it to outsource consent to an app?

Among the many issues raised by #MeToo, the topic of consent is particularly fraught. A reckoning for serial predators in Hollywood has turned into a nuanced reappraisal of sexual ethics, female desire and agency. #MeToo is part of an ongoing wave of change worldwide. Over the past five years, activists in Sweden, Germany and India have successfully campaigned for consent-based reforms to sexual assault laws in the wake of shocking incidents.

On March 20, the Swedish government advanced a bill that updates its definition of rape, criminalizing sex without clearly expressed consent. The current law requires prosecutors to prove a victim was subjected to violence or threats. If the proposal is approved by the legislature, it will go into effect on July 1.

Sweden began crafting changes to its criminal code in 2014, after feminist organizations created a hashtag campaign, #samtycke (consent) to protest a series of acquittals in prominent sexual assault cases, including the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl in a Stockholm suburb.

Germany added consent to its sex offense statute and outlawed groping two years ago, in response to a campaign called, "Nein Heisst Nein," or "No Means No," launched after hundreds of women were assaulted during New Year's Eve celebrations in Cologne and other cities. The fatal gang rape of a medical student in India led to demonstrations in major cities nationwide and a raft of legal reforms in 2013.

"It's like somebody took the snow globe of people's sexuality and their understanding of sexuality and sexual consent and sexual relationships and they shook it up until all the little flakes are falling," said Meredith Chivers, a sex researcher and associate professor of psychology at Queen's University in Canada. "And it's going to take a while for all of that to settle and it's never going to settle in the same way and that's good because there's a lot of people who've been hurt and we need to fix this."

Where does #MeToo fit in?

#MeToo differs from the feminist movements overseas because it has yet to yield substantial changes to criminal law in the United States (though Democrats in Washington state and Nebraska proposed new legislation in January to strengthen sex crime statutes).
The currently stalled Nebraska bill is rooted in a principle called affirmative consent, which goes beyond "no means no" to define consent as "a knowing and voluntary agreement, freely given, to engage in sexual contact or sexual penetration." Affirmative consent is also called "yes means yes."

Antioch College in Ohio pioneered affirmative consent in 1991 to combat date rape on campus. The small school issued guidelines advising students to obtain consent during each stage of a sexual interaction. Some states, including New York and California, have passed laws mandating yes means yes standards on college campuses in response to studies reporting the prevalence of sexual assault in student populations.

The consent conversation received additional fuel from "Cat Person," a short story published in December about a soulless liaison, and a January Babe.net article detailing a woman's ill-fated date with comedian Aziz Ansari.

The Ansari story captures the frequently messy reality of sexual encounters. The article was divisive because it delved into a gray area: The accuser said she used "verbal and nonverbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was," but to many who read the piece, the absence of a plainly stated "no" meant consent was implied. People are often reluctant to engage in candid dialogue about their sexual expectations because of insecurity and fear of rejection, said Richard Mattson, an associate professor of psychology at Binghamton University.

Sociologists use the term "sexual script" to describe the way people interact during a romantic encounter. Movies, television, song lyrics and pornography shape sexual scripts and even the most enlightened millennial may have a warped sense of how a date should play out based on timeworn depictions of determined men winning over indecisive women, said Mattson.

"Aziz Ansari is a self-proclaimed feminist at the explicit level but is just as exposed to various media influences and lack of education and is just as prone to making errors," said Mattson, who co-authored a study in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence that examined how college men respond to verbal and nonverbal messages of consent and refusal. "It's a related and potentially even broader problem."
'If you are unsure, then refrain'

Read more at the link.

Defense lawyers say if she's sober enough to work the app, then men have a solid defense.

The reason its pointless is because if 'no means no' is the end of it. It wont matter when she might change her mind. she can still say 'no' after tapping her phone, at any point.

It's still a legally binding document..

If she wakes up from a coyote date, or the check bounces, or her husband/boyfriend finds out, she can't dodge it by crying rape.

(Buzzer sound.) The thing is, in ALL sorts of human interactions, the fact that someone said "yes" to their INITIAL UNDERSTANDING of what was being asked of them, does NOT mean in any way that from that moment on, anything goes.

And it can't mean that. It can't be ALLOWED to mean that.

I guess that's why it it so important that I hear her scream YES...YES...YES on every stroke?

I guess the only thing that's left, is a written contract, and taking a notary along on every date.

Better solution - hire a hooker, she won't have second thoughts in the morning!!!

Unless the check bounces..

Sex is a very complicated thing

_______________________________________________________________________

Really?

the actions, no, but all the things that come with, yes.

complicated: consisting of many interconnecting parts or elements; intricate.

what he likes, what she likes, what he thinks she likes, what she thinks he likes, what he feels, what she feels, what he thinks she feels, what she thinks he feels, what he thinks it means, what she thinks it means ..etc, etc. etc ...

No it's not. !

I agree!!

Nah.. you are making it more complicated then it needs to be. You both just whip off your pants and go at it... shirts too.

Its when it is over analyzed when is becomes.... boring.

just whip em off.. that's all you have to do.. trust me.. then have a nice breakfast :)

When the sexbot is perfected, and all the models look like this.





Women will be obsolete, and all these issues will disappear.