Aw man, no worries, I'm jus funnin with ya.

no worries I know you're only breaking balls Tom.

its all good.

I participate in a few online forums. I cannot tell you how often I get reamed as a female for actually questioning whether women can have alterior motives and confusion about sex v rape just because (to me) victimhood seems to have become such a quick way at noteriety.

I am a female and I have four brothers.
I am a female who has been 'assaulted', both times by strangers in situations that did not scream consent, ( a public park, an apartment with someone blocking the door to exit)

I am a female who is not 'eager' and who has softly said' no' before even though the NO was only in the moment a cue to try harder or to convince myself to stop although I did not really want to stop. the hormonal rush during sex can be a complex and overwhelming thing.

My problem, even as a female, is the notion that women have power to start something so primal and demand partners be IMMEDIATELY responsive to even the slightest notion of hesitation or even the absence of eagerness, that such situations can start out with intention to intimacy and ruin a mans life because they may not notice slight changes AFTER that initiation troubles me as it flies in the face of what I have experienced to be the reality of sexual encounters.


I do not hold that women cannot be victimized in an intimate surrounding, but the details should matter as well as reasonable and realistic review in the shoes of BOTH parties involved. IT just seems almost too easy to immediately pin one person as 'victim' and the other as 'victimizer' in situations that are much more complex than any intention to 'rape' or even knowledge that the partner was considering it 'rape'.

As to harassment. I feel people should speak up and recognize that what offends them may not have offended another and the only way an 'offender' knows each individuals boundaries is if they SAY SO. I am also concerned with incidents where women have only said something in the public limelight about actions or words that a man or me have said/used. Men swing and miss, but Id hate to see them stop taking the bat for fear of being labeled with one of these terrible titles. If a man/woman intentionally (theres that word again) PERSISTS, once you have INFORMED THEM of something offending you, then they are jerks who are harassing you. But we just seem to be oversimplifying and lumping people in together and pretending details dont matter at all.

What you are describing works both ways.
You can't rape the willing.

Lets imagine you are having sex with someone and they just stop and say "I'm not into this".
Can you stop?
Will you be offended, hurt, angry?
If you push on, is that, then rape?

If you wake up in the morning, hung over and look across the bed and think
"WHAT was I thinking!"
is that rape?
Is it rape because you are no longer in the heat of passion?
Is it rape because you chose poorly?
These questions apply to men and women.

Sexual predators are not limited to one gender.
Sexual insecurities are not limited to one gender.

Men get raped by women too.
Thing is, men, to maintain their concept of masculinity are less likely to complain about it.
Women use vulnerability to manipulate men.
It triggers men's protection instincts and is very effective.
Men tend to hide their vulnerabilities.
Men tend to display a persona of strength and it is very effective.

A woman might cry to get her way.
A man might shout.

I don't think a real man can be manipulated, if so he is weak.
Whenever a woman says no it means no, what ever step has already been entered into in sex.

Alcohol and drugs can alter what a person does and can make a person do things they normally wouldn't do if sober.

If someone is sexually assulted they should report to police asap. Unless the person is in danger of their life, then go to a safe house first. Don't let your employer trap you in holding back to keep your employment or place in society til Years past and you gain $$$$ and put your abuser on the back burner for years before the truth surfaces.

Just my thoughts.

toodygirl

Real men or women cannot be manipulated, that is fact.

Exactly!!

if no always meant no we wouldn't have sales people. No is a reaction to a specific moment, not necessarily a predictor of what reaction will be next.

I have said no, not to 'manipulate', but because I was actually on the fence. Just like if someone offers a piece of cake and I initially say 'no' (because of some idea in my mind of what I should do) and then say yes when they persist.

If they take the no as no. That's fine. but if they persist to give me the cake, and I eat it, I cant blame them for it and I might find I'm glad they didn't listen.

We don't just have this exact problem today with sex related issues, we have it with political issues as well.

And as with the sexual issues, abuses are happening on both sides.

In my lifetime, I have now seen several iterations, or "movements" if you will, in various areas of our mutual lives, where it becomes almost "fashionable" to either deny that a given problem exists, or to declare that because some people abuse or exaggerate their personal concerns about it, that ALL who are concerned should be ignored. Or more insidiously, that anyone who is on the latest "not popular" list should be ignored, while everyone else is lauded.

I am a trouble-shooter/problem solver by lifestyle, and by profession. Because of that, I know well, that deciding what to do for ANY concern, needs to be addressed in detail, according to the facts of that SINGLE INSTANCE.

More than anything else, I am opposed to BLANKET responses of any kind. When the BLM movement got going, I was frustrated to see the upper leadership of the nation essentially take exactly one side or the other, either declaring everyone wrong or everyone right.

Same thing seems to be happening with the Me Too movement, with one side of the issue acting as though every woman who speaks up is a hero of truth, and the other declaring that if even one woman complains unfairly, that the issue should be declared "fake news," and be ignored.

My Thoughts were on sexual assults not sales or Cake !

I guess I missed your point in your original post.

except no two movements are alike, real social movements the civil rights movement, women rights, environmental movement vs Feel good movements like the occupy wall street movement, black lives matter matter and now the Me too movement.

Im not downplaying what that pig Weinstein did and Bill Cosby did, but it goes on in every industry while you may oppose blanket statements I think the Weinstein affair brings attention to what goes on in every industry.

The black lives movement was just a liberal feel good politically correct talking point.

Nothing good came out of that movement, It didn't expose racism, racism has always existed for some reason it came to the forefront during the Obama administration.


Perhaps when Obama comments on Trayvon Martin could be his son and commenting on other high profile cases but says nothing , not a damn thing on Gilbert Collar case.


While Im not going to pretend to understand the Me too movement, but I do commend the women who are finally coming forward to speak about their experience because they were too afraid to speak before.

I think that is called being indecisive and having your indecisiveness being manipulated.

So what 'movement' will it be called when someone is sued for breach of contract for not having sex with someone?
lemmesplain~

Nearly everyone has a cell phone.
People record all kinds of video.
Guy records drunk woman coming on to him and promising sex.
She thinks its cool, says on camera "record everything".
Guy also records her passing out and not giving him sex.
Guy sues her for breach of contract.

It's all good. just pointing out many ways 'no' is used, other than as an immediate shut down of offering.

probably, or being human.

I think all movements have POTENTIAL for change but must START somewhere. it is persistence and unfortunately embarrassment or loss of money and connections unfortunately, regardless of how long that change takes, which makes the difference.

I still feel even past movements like the civil or womens right may not have gained traction if they were not exposed to the world and there fore put on the world stage of judgement.

I commend all the movements seeking to make change when that change is about actual equity of opportunity and not just coddling of egos or emotions. BLM is seeking equity in the treatment of black death. Im not sure what MeToo is seeking, except maybe to get women more comfortable in coming forward when they are intentionally violated.

One of the greatest insights I gained by extensive study of history, and by dedicating myself to factual logical analysis, rather than taking sides about anything, has been the recognition that, in spite of all the well-meant efforts to portray our past leaders as being brilliant, forward thinkers, who neatly solved problems with strict adherence to high principles at all times...

...that the reality has always been a LOT sloppier. Even the greatest and most admirable accomplishments of the past, have actually come through the same sort of murky, mucky messes that we see around us today. You name the grand cause, and we will be able to find a dirty underside connected to it, that sometimes made it look awful even at the time, to many people.

Therefore the fact that MODERN movements and efforts to solve social problems so often include back steps and false accusations and mistakes, becomes a lot more tolerable. Sloppiness in human relations has ALWAYS been an inherent part of the process.

I totally disagree!!! Most married men have been manipulated within their marriage. Often to supply sex in exchange for something new or the wife getting their way on something. It is effective in that the other outcome is a divorce which usually results in financial ruin and restrictions on seeing his children.

greatest insights ok, maybe explain to us why it took 100 years for black folks to be recognized as Americans to have rights

explain to us why race relations seems to be really bad under the Obama Administration.

explain to us why Trump was elected if America was doing so well under Obama?

Provide us with some of this great insights of yours?

I know the post was to Igor but Id like to chime in with some answers.

It took 100 years because it took that long for people in positions of power to become brave enough to do what was right rather than what was popular.


race relations seemed to be bad, just like sex relations will seem to be bad if we ever have a female president, because people dont complain as much when they are keeping a status quo that suits them as they do when things get shaken up. and because media was sure to highlight it more than they had before.

Trump was elected because Americans admire wealth and confuse it with skill and merit, because many people saw him as hope that the status quo that preferred them would be returned, and because a woman with a voice was running against him, and because of a falsely promoted ideal that No experience would be automatically better than poor experiences.