aaah thank you sweets.......and thats someone who actually does know me....

This was used as supporting evidence?????

BRAVO!!! my sister in Christ, also i heard on a live radio interview with The first Astronaut that set foot on the moon.He was terrified, because if the planet's age was correct to what "they" the teachers said then according to scientific calculation the depth of the moon dust should be seven miles deep!!! Of course once he landed stepped out took samples brought them back, the depth was absolutely accurate to biblical creation time frame.


<<<<<<< Ummmm... I have been under the understanding that Neil Armstrong, who just happens to live 30 minutes from my house, has not given one personal interview since that trip... not one... he refuses to speak to the public, and has been quite reclusive. Actually lending support to the notion that the entire landing was a farce anyway... although that is a completely different subject matter... If anyone has credible evidence to dispute my previous understanding of his not authorizing any interview(s), I would be very interested in reading or viewing such information... >>>>>>>


Update: I have since learned of one interview granted to the late Ed Bradley of 60 Minutes... the content of which I am unable to find a link for... I stand corrected

His last interview was November 6, 2005 with Ed Bradley on 60 Minutes.

This sounds highly suspect, because Armstrong would have known the '7 miles of dust' question was answered by America's Surveyor spacecraft having soft-landered on the Moon circa 1966-68. The Russians had also soft-landed robotic spacecraft even before Surveyor.

Sorry, this sounds like urban legend concocted to support Creationist supposition by people who haven't done their homework. The timeline for the Surveyor spacecraft landings is easily verifiable by anyone knowing how to use Google.


-Kerry O.

Hmmm... Six pages on this topic, and the only one who has offered anything factual after the OP was Kerry-O.

I do have a few questions about this thread though...

Telephone man - do you have a point about Evolution that you'd like to share? If not - what are you doing here!

Voile - I'm waiting for you to say something witty and funny. I've lost count of your posts and haven't laughed yet.

Abra - How do you make a star? I'd like to make one for my wife for Christmas. It's too expensive to have one named for her.

Wouldee - Finished Carpentry? Cabanets? I make flat's and platforms. And they call me a Carpenter!?

~ Recipe for a JSH Star ~


Take seven parts of Artsy gurl
and eleven parts of Voil
mix them all together
and place them in a bowl

Sprinkle in some Jessie Lee
with a teaspoon full of Kid
Add a pinch of Spider
leaving out his Id

Cook it over Kerry O.
and Rambill it with Brit
Jax it up with Devil’s Mom
and let it take a fit

Ignite it with Creative Soul
and a Different Kind of Wench
Pass it by Magnolia Guy
to see if he will flinch

Let it cook and simmer
as it scintillates with light
Surround it with some planets
that are orbiting just right

Let Wouldee be our ape man
and Feral be our Eve
They’ll multiply productively
In this we must believe!

They’ll fall to sin as always
bringing shame beneath our star!
We’ll have to give commandments
in a book we’ll call Bizarre

They’ll preach our word forever
as our star persists to shine
and Damnitscloudy’s troubles
will forever be malign

~~~

Abra (11/23/07)

in the early days of the apollo program, there were in fact a FEW scientists who believed that the landing craft would be swallowed by dust, or encapsulated in an electromagnetic field. Further study, as well as the surveyor probes, proved this to be a non issue. Im not sure what this has to do with creationism vs evolution though, but by the time we landed on the moon, these theories had already been put to rest. Urban legend. Neil has not helped the case against the moon landing by not agreeing to interviews, but this is his right and i respect it. i dont think its part of a national plot, i think he just dont like public speaking. sometimes an orange is just an orange.

The idea that the moon landing could have been a hoax is extremely unlikely.

NASA would have had to pull the wool over the eyes of thousands of their very own employees. Unless someone is naïve enough to believe their employees would have been in on the hoax.

Pulling the wool over the eyes of the American people in general probably would have been pretty easy. Christianity seems to have done that without any problem at all.

But back to the issue, NASA would have also had to fool the Russian Astronomers, and that would not have been easy. Had we not really gone to the moon Russia would have known it and they would have been screaming about it. Since that never happened apparently Russian astronomers had followed the whole event.

I think it’s really a sad state of affairs when a religion is so desperate for attention that it has to make absurdly outrageous claims against human progress.

Is Christianity really that desperate?

It this the last desperate gasp of a kicking dead horse?

What good is a religion that must deny human progress and activities in order to justify itself?

Abra...

I actually sorta started that, I suppose... unintentionally writing one too many lines of thought...

I have no well-substantiated belief on the matter... either way... only common reason which agrees with your previous expression(s) on this matter...

There is plenty of evidence available either way... some actually fairly convincing things , I have been told by a relative... who has seen much more of the evidence against...

I do not believe that the isuue has been raised as evidence for or against Christianity...

More like the capability of our government to dupe it's people....

ABRA...

What a recipe for disaster..

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;but unto us which are saved it is the power of GOD.

19. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

1 Corinthians 3:19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

20. And again, The LORD knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.


I think that these verse are quite poetic. Possibly harder to acknowledge than all of the book of Genesis, which is difficult enough in any language to reconcile.

Nevertheless, Christianity does leave its mark in every controversy of man since the book of books was compiled.

I see no contradiction then.


Only the appropriateness that God intended.

Abra;

Thanx for the recipe - I'll get right on that!

Hope your holiday was a good one.

This is the kind of scripture quoting that is totally misplaced Wouldee.

The kind of ‘wisdom’ that these Bible verses are referring to has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of intellectual knowledge that is revealed by scientific investigation.

The kind of ‘wisdom’ that the authors of the Bible are referring to here have to do with authoritarian rulers, and how they rule over their people.

The idea that God would be against ‘true’ wisdom is itself a foolish notion.

Using these kinds of versus to imply that God prefers people to remain ignorant of the world around them is utter nonsense.

Why would God favor people who refuse to THINK???

That would imply that heaven is full of nothing but air-head idiots.

I think I’d rather go to hell than spend eternity in heaven if that’s the case.

This is just totally misplaced quoting of scripture Wouldee.

Nice try though.

ABRA,

On the contrary, my friend. This is not a personal attack on your beliefs and or understanding of creation.

It is a relevent observation of the topic...EVO ( as such)vs. Creation.

That Christian doctrine is relevant upon the controversy, in no ways distracts from the distinctiveness of the debate.

As to the concern that an unfinished work of enquery as to man's debt to his own existence being deferent to apes, I find undeniable relevancy and basis for appealing to the entertainment of influences that hold equal and opposite weight in the consideration of the merits of the debate itself.

With respect to your comment about these scriptural references that I have proferred, you have errantly characterized their context and that leads me to question your emotional involvement in the debate itself.

Nevertheless, you know my beliefs, as well as I knowing yours sufficient to the task of the debate itself, in all regards.

I still find no justifiable cause, in light of the abscence of observable facts to even begin to contemplate that Darwin's postule is meritorious at all.

There is no evidence to suggest that man, and all of present plant and animal life on this planet, is anything other than it is intended to be.

I, for one, have no emotional stake in the debate.

I am also a very diligent student of creation itself ( not creationism). In that, I have a personal responsibility to comprehend at its fullest and have no intention of abrogating that principle upon myself, any time soon.

abra wrote:

The kind of ‘wisdom’ that these Bible verses are referring to has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of intellectual knowledge that is revealed by scientific investigation.

Answer: What makes it hard to be able to answer you so much of the time abra is because at least for me. Bible scripture is what gives me the knowledge I have. It's Gods way of showing humans the how's and why's of the universe. For you I know you don't believe that but for me thats where it gets tough. I look at your response above and I have to answer it like this: Wisdom means many things and different things in scripture. In scripture and in 1 Corianthians 3-19 it is saying that to the Lord God wthe wisdom of this world is foolishness.....for God only can catch the wise in the craftiness. Basically that nothing escapes him. Now I believe this and I know that you don't.

abra wrote:
The kind of ‘wisdom’ that the authors of the Bible are referring to here have to do with authoritarian rulers, and how they rule over their people.

Answer:

This is not true at all......This applies to every man in every situation at any given time. Because even though we are a long time later the same rules always apply to Lord God. And he is not against true wisdom but for myself HE IS THE REASON for the wisdom...does that make sense.

abra said:
Using these kinds of versus to imply that God prefers people to remain ignorant of the world around them is utter nonsense.

Why would God favor people who refuse to THINK???

That would imply that heaven is full of nothing but air-head idiots.

Answer: I think you misunderstood what God means......There is a difference between having wisdom in humbleness and having wisdom with arrogance.

God speak that the meek shall inherit the earth also......but they are not just meek but humble to God. For me...any great Human being is so with God not against God.

abra wrote:
I think I’d rather go to hell than spend eternity in heaven if that’s the case.

This is just totally misplaced quoting of scripture Wouldee.

Nice try though.

Answer:

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;but unto us which are saved it is the power of GOD.

Again abra I think your not understanding what the scripture is saying. My understanding of it is this; give all that I am to Christ my savior the Lord God son, know in my heart and soul that all the wisdom and knowledge I have is DUE TO THEM.....not of my own making. I do.....only for myself because I have given over everything to him, finances, health, everything that I am and because of Him....I don't have the worries I used to. And that might sound really lame...but its the God's Honest truth..no pun intended. Financially I am in an awesome place, family life, could not be better, businesses, thriving, friends, surrounding by great great people. So for me when he changed my life it was a no brainer to turn over my life to him. Now this is not to say that others can or have done the same....I would have to say no. Just for me......I have given him 100% control.
Which is a very very very hard thing to do for most people.

But the blessings he has given me are ten fold.

This may be sort of off topic... but not really...

This is the science side... so, I must bring up something that is very pertinent to this whole religion and/or science aspect of it....

Ah... the placebo effect...

I think this direction would be an excellent one to travel for a bit... anyone else?

I never thought it was Wouldee.



I’m just giving my honest perspective Wouldee. I seriously don’t believe those verses were meant to imply that mankind should remain ignorant of the world around him.

I don’t believe that God just wants us to sit around sucking our thumbs believing anything we are told, not questioning it, and not using our brains at all.

I see no reason why God would have even given us brains if that was his master plan. He could have simply just stopped evolution at the stage of the amoeba if that’s what he wanted.

So there’s no emotional motivation or investment at all behind my statement. I seriously don’t believe that God wants us to be ignorant.

I just can’t imagine why God would want such a thing. What kind of a God would that be?

Perhaps you mistook my comment at the end, “Nice try though”, as some sort of emotional ‘jab’. I apologize if it came over that way. That wasn’t my intent. I genuinely meant it. It was a nice try, I just disagree with it, that’s all.

Feral, rather than countering your every point, I’ll just say that I agree we see things quite differently. I will comment on one thing you said though.



So what’s the difference between humbleness and arrogance? I’m not talking about the difference between the definitions of the words. I’m well aware of that. I’m talking about being humble to whom? And why would wanting to get to know creation be considered arrogant?

Arrogance implies self-importance. People who are self-important are usually too busy being vain to be investigating the secrets of creation. To suggest that scientists are arrogant is to show a completely misunderstanding of what science is about. Science is to humble yourself before the universe. If you also happen to believe that God is the universe then you’re humbling yourself before God.

I think the kind of humbleness that you are suggesting is misplaced. I imagine that you are suggesting that a person should be humble toward the beliefs of Christianity. I sincerely believe that Christianity is indeed Ancient Mythology. Why should I ‘humble’ myself to mythology?

You believe that Christianity is the word of God. I do not.

We differ vastly in this believe.

For you to suggest that anyone who doesn’t believe in Christianity is arrogant, is in itself an arrogant stance to take.

I could say that you refuse to humble yourself before god by worshiping mythology instead of worshiping the god that actually created you.

It’s a two-way street Feral.

I still stand on my belief that the quoted verses are misplaced in this context. But whatever. It makes no difference to me, because I don’t believe in the book those verses came from anyway.

I don’t believe in a God who favors ignorance over truth. Pure and simple.

Arrogance implies self-importance EXACTLY.....which is the point. God wants humble servants whether your a dishwasher or a scientist. He doesn't not want humans to have wisdom, he just want them aware of who gave it to them. Same with the universe as a whole....He created it.....and anything that scientist do he enabled them to do so....Because He God is all empowering. Now even for yourself abra and your god....im sure the same applies....you give him all the glory and if that is not the case....well so be it...as you say you believe whatever it is you believe.

Abra I never said scientist are arrogant,and if you look at it and being humble before the universe itself well thats ok. As for me if I were a scientist I would give all the glory to God. Because I know that the things I received in order to do whatever scientific thing I did was all through Him, and for the Father God.

Exactly abra I humble myself with all I do before God.

Again abra I do not humble myself before Christianity....I humble myself before the Lord yes. And in return for my 100% dedication and humbly serving him....I am rewarded 10 fold by gifts, by helping others all in his glory of course.

I also as I have said so so many times before don't care about religion per say.....I only care that Jesus Christ died for our sins and for our salvation.


Abra one more time......I don't care if you believe in Christianity, or protestant, or Catholic.....that does not matter to me......honestly.....only the above paragraph and giving God the glory for all I am, and all I will or could be is what I believe.

Now as far as worshiping mythology if your referring to the Bible.....to you myth to me God's infallible, inspired, inherent word.

Abra,

If you must know, my friend, my quote of 1 Corinthians was designed as a humorous quip meant to acknowledged your poem and the prose of the Book Of Bizarre mentioned in your poem.

The poem is excellent and very creatively organized and quite revealing of your content and observations ad just plain TOO FUNNY as an answer to Eljay.

It's no big deal, but felt a desire to keep my post on topic sufficiently so as to not alert the idideait police.

We don't need that!!!

You are too funny, my friend.

You deserve to know that is my opinion.

Creative

I tried to e-mail you....but those pesky criteria...lol You can take this thread wherever your little heart wants to.