Bricks Walls

Brick walls does not a skull make.
Some things you just can't fake.
Bricks are harder than your head.
Hit it too hard and you'll be dead.
There is a softer and easier way.
But you have to learn how to play.
Sticks and stones can hurt so true.
I hope something works for you.

Sorry, having trouble getting this Nat King Cole song of Lets Pretend out of my head.

"Why is it presumptuous to assume that women are sexually attracted to me?"

Because not all of them are, or will be. And you can't "make" them be so. And it IS presumptuous to assume ANYone is attracted to you. They will let you know if they are. Until then, to presume otherwise is a highly arrogant and unattractive quality. Not confident, arrogant. Presumptuous. Rude. Unattractive.

You have a rebuttal to everything I posted earlier, and despite what you say I think you like sticking to your original thing: that women run away from you and you don't know why. Well, based on this thread, I'D run away from you for sure. You've got an answer for everything. You're like Mr. One-Upper: "Oh yeah? You did that? Well, I did this." Again, another unattractive trait.

Nor are your thoughts on Internet dating attractive. Since you think the only women online are ones who are "desperate" or incapable of attracting a man's attention in real life, what on earth are you doing here?

And for you to be "insulted" that you might pay for a dating site is just plain ridiculous. YOU're the one who feels insulted, which means you think you SHOULD be able to do this yourself, to attract a woman by yourself, but clearly you are incapable of doing so, so it seems to me you need and would be grateful for any help you can get.

However, you're not, as you've proved time and time again in this thread. So, I hang my hat. I tried. Good luck to you, buddy.

Dude, maybe she is busy being a playa offline

"Because not all of them are (sexually attracted to you), or will be. And you can't "make" them be so."
This sounds like every piece of advice that a guy can have to make himself more sexually appealing (which assures them that they CAN make any woman attracted to them) is worthless if you can't naturally make women sexually attracted to you in the first place. Are you suggesting that some guys just have It while other guys don't and are completely lost?

"And it IS presumptuous to assume ANYone is attracted to you."
Alright. Given this suggested line of thinking, how does one retain the necessary confidence to expose to his fair lady friend(s) if he's under the assumption that no one will ever find him attractive? That sounds like playing Russian Roulette with a completely loaded clip to me.

"You're like Mr. One-Upper: "Oh yeah? You did that? Well, I did this." Again, another unattractive trait."
No, I'm like Mr. I'm-Doing-Things-That-Should-Work-But-Aren't-For-Some-Reason. They say I need to be a perfect gentleman, but women look right through me. They then say that I should be something of a jerk, which I try to do and they end up hating me. It's not about oneupmanship. It's about giving a clear enough picture as to what the exact problem is, and try to get more distinct advice about my own personal situation. I can't help it if my problem is so complex that people have no idea how to continue.

"Since you think the only women online are ones who are "desperate" or incapable of attracting a man's attention in real life, what on earth are you doing here?"
No, I said those on PAY sites appear desperate. There's a difference. You shouldn't have to pay for anything that you're supposed to be getting for free like most other people are getting anyway. Why are the women in here incapable of attracting men in real life? I don't know, nor do I care. If I can get a conversation out of them, they usually reveal themselves to be very nice, caring girls who anyone would consider themselves lucky to be with (and they more often than not find themselves in romantic predicaments not unlike my own, which I can sympathize with). THAT is why I am here, because there are women in the world who are wonderful people yet for some ungodly reason continue to fail with real life relationships, and since I share in their plight, I push myself forward under the belief that I am someone's Other Half, just waiting to be discovered and appreciated.

"you think you SHOULD be able to do this yourself, to attract a woman by yourself, but clearly you are incapable of doing so, so it seems to me you need and would be grateful for any help you can get."
You're again missing my point. I can and DO attract women in here. I just can't hang on to them, and no, it's NOT because I'm acting like a jerk like you're probably interpreting me now as you read this. (Many would suggest that it's my desire to NOT act like a jerk that may be hurting me.) I am indeed grateful for any help I can get. Lamentably, there's just not a lot I can use. People say I should Do This Action; yeah, I tried that several times but it didn't work, what else you got? How precisely would joining a pay site help my situation? What is it that they're offering me in ways of help that free sites or people I know in real life can't offer me?

"However, you're not, as you've proved time and time again in this thread. So, I hang my hat. I tried. Good luck to you, buddy."
This isn't trying, it's quitting. You may recall that one guy in here who offered to e-mail me with samples of his newsletters that he said might help me gain some insight to my own specific problem. HE'S not quitting on me (as far as I know). I said he could send them to me, and it's been nearly a week with no response from him. Either he's still looking through the (no doubt) vast archives of newsletters to see which could possibly fit to what I'm experiencing, or he found out that there is no advice in this series of newsletters that addresses the problem of being able to attract girls but not being able to hang onto them (I'm hoping it's the former and not the latter). If you have advice that you think is worth offering, what you're supposed to do is try to back me up into a wall to the point where I say "Wait a minute... you're right! Why didn't I see it before?? <:D". As incredulous as it sounds, this HAS happened. A friend of mine gave me the suggestion that I should try to meet women in larger groups instead of as individuals. This piece of advice was completely unheard of by me, and I had no alternative but to try it and see for myself (which I'm still waiting on, since the opportunity hasn't exactly opened itself up to me yet where there's a large group of young women who AREN'T with their beaus :P).

And don't tell me my failure comes out of me being rude, arrogant, or whatever. Women in the Real World LOVE that stuff. (The devil take my Golden Rule upbringing....)

Bob, Bob, Bob, I'll give you this: arrogant or no, obnoxious or no, you are persistent, so that quality alone should guarantee that sooner or later SOMEone is going to hang around and keep chatting with you

As for the guy who offered to send you newsletters with advice, I think neither of your presuppositions is correct. I think rather, he agreed with me that you're going to find fault with the newsletters anyway, one way or another so why bother? That's my guess on that.

And as for this: "And don't tell me my failure comes out of me being rude, arrogant, or whatever. Women in the Real World LOVE that stuff. (The devil take my Golden Rule upbringing....)"

What women would that be, who like men who are rude and arrogant? I don't. And I don't think any other self-respecting woman does.

The final suggestion I'd have for you is therapy. Which I'm sure you're going to scream about when you read this. If you can't cough up a couple bucks to join match.com or another "paid" dating site, I imagine you will recoil at the thought of -- God Forbid! -- paying someone to shrink your head. However, I think you might find it helpful. Not because I think you're crazy, but because I think you've got some rather unhelpful thought patterns and certainly some mistaken beliefs, that perhaps an objective person (and yes, someone whom you PAY for their experience, wisdom, and help) can discern, pinpoint, and help you correct.

"that quality alone should guarantee that sooner or later SOMEone is going to hang around and keep chatting with you"
Just not the people who say they can help me, I suppose...

"I think rather, he agreed with me that you're going to find fault with the newsletters anyway, one way or another so why bother?"
He's trying to sell some sort of relationship gospel, and he hasn't quit amidst a barrage of OTHER peoples' negative opinions. :P

"What women would that be, who like men who are rude and arrogant? I don't. And I don't think any other self-respecting woman does."
Most (if not all) of the self-respecting women here in SoCal who are in my age group have either decided that they don't NEED a man in their lives in order to be a complete human being (who then whine with their girlfriends every weekend about how dateless they are), or they've simply turned lesbian. The rest of the women here absolutely LOVE rudeness and arrogance. :S

As for therapy, I'll just turn to my parents if I need it. They are my absolute WORST critics. If they see something wrong with what I'm doing, they'll tell me straight away what the problem is and what could be done to fix it. Worse yet, they've got the leverage of parental pressure over me that the therapist simply will not have or ever be legally allowed to have. While perfectly supportive, they're very quick to tell me what's going wrong with me and my actions, which I'll forever love the both of them for. After another recent failed date proposal, my mother gently gave me the harsh possibility that maybe there ISN'T someone out there for everybody like everyone says. On the one hand it's incredibly depressing to hear this coming from one of my usually supportive parents, but on the other hand it was comforting in a weird way upon the reflection that with as knowledgeable as she is about my problem, there's really nothing that I'm doing wrong. If the two people who love me more than anything in the world and only want to see me successful in every aspect of my life can't figure out where I'm going wrong, you'll have to pardon my suspicions that a therapist who only has an hour or two a day to get to know me won't come to any real conclusion and my money and time will be completely wasted.

My friends keep bugging me to just pay the services for Match.com (and no one has STILL given me a real answer as to what I'd actually be buying there) so if I don't find anyone after 6 months, I'll get all my money back, no loss. To this I say "Alright, if you're so confident that I WILL find someone, why don't YOU pay for my Match.com account and then I'll very happily pay you back every single cent if I finally do meet my Missing Half?" I get no response out of them because THEY have just as little faith in the system as well and they don't want to blow their money away either.

Like I said, Bob, you have an answer for everything. I rather imagine that's why people keep disappearing on you. Kind of annoying.

Match is not a great site, but the money-back offer, or free six months, whatever it is, is not a bad one. At least it's something.

And as for parents posing as therapists, oh dear me. You haven't a clue. Most people are in therapy beCAUse of their parents and perhaps it might help you as well.

I keep going back to my original thought about this with you: despite what you say, you're perfectly happy to stick with your mantra that you cannot find anyone, you will not find anyone who will continue to chat with you, and that's it. Because you reject everything. Everything!

Maybe this is your hobby. To just keep wondering "why?" and "why me?" Well, why not you?

I know you won't do it but therapy I really think, is where you should go. Your ideas about therapy, as other topics, are rather distorted.

"Like I said, Bob, you have an answer for everything. I rather imagine that's why people keep disappearing on you. Kind of annoying."
You came back for a whole TWO more replies after you said you were calling it quits. I like that. :) You still want to prove me and my theories/opinions wrong. Keep going! You can get there!

"Most people are in therapy beCAUse of their parents and perhaps it might help you as well."
Yes, and I DON'T want or feel the need to be in therapy because of the aid and council my parents provide. I don't fit into that group of folks. :P

"despite what you say, you're perfectly happy to stick with your mantra that you cannot find anyone, you will not find anyone who will continue to chat with you, and that's it. Because you reject everything. Everything!"
I do NOT! *lol* I'm perfectly happy to stick with my mantra because I'm doing what everyone says is the right thing to do. When trying to chat up a young lady who catches my attention, I'm being talkative, polite, a good listener, and am conveying a genuine sense of interest in the person. Tell me that's the wrong way to act and why.
I don't go into long debates like this with anyone I'm chatting up. If people can't continue the conversation with me in situations like this, I can't help it if they're unprepared enough to suddenly run out of things to say, can I?

"Maybe this is your hobby. To just keep wondering "why?" and "why me?" Well, why not you?"
Considering paradoxes is fun and all, but pondering why you constantly lose a game you've been playing for years while intimately knowing the rules (as best as people can relate them to you) is NOT fun.

"Your ideas about therapy, as other topics, are rather distorted."
Enlighten me, please. This is why we're here.

Ok..so can someone give me a brief description of whts goin on??

Hello, I have read through this entire thread. It is intriuging to me that so many people are willing to say what someone is doing wrong, instead of focusing on the original question. Which I believe was referring to why someone will contact another and trade emails and just abruptly stop. I am certainly no expert, but it seems to me that people are A)just plain rude B)playing games C) trying to make themselves feel better about themselve D) just don't have the courage to say" hey this has been fun but I don't feel a connection" It is not just this particular man that this happens to. And regardless of whether someone does or does not "OWE" an explaination, it still hurts sometimes. It is my opinion that after 2 or 3 emails about what we want and if we are compatible, an end one way or another SHOULD be expected. I was starting to think I was old fasioned in thinking this way, however all of these responses to the question have served to strengthen my beliefs. Thank you!!! N.

Basically what's going on, Hawaiigirl (who has a scary thumbnail... O_O), is that I'm trying to figure out why I can grab a young lady's attention and it seems like things are going absolutely wonderfully and then I don't get a single word out of her a few days later with no explanation whatsoever. It seems that the other users in here don't like how I have a rebuttal for everything that's said, and they're under the impression that it's THIS behavior that is turning women off (which isn't true, since the conversations that I share with my young lady friends never go into long, complicated debates on any topic like this conversation here). :P

"I was starting to think I was old fasioned in thinking this way, however all of these responses to the question have served to strengthen my beliefs. Thank you!!! N."
And thank YOU, MysticalMoon. While this response to my query isn't as constructive as I would have liked, it DOES give me a better idea of what's actually going on, which is what I've been after since posting this thread. This is the kind of advice/insight I want; the kind where I really have nothing to say but "oh, really? Huh. Never thought of that." Thanks. :)

Well, I just felt that things had gotton off track so to say, and thought that at least it might help you to know that you are not alone!

Thanks Bob..i see now...hmmmm....i think i will have to go back and read the entire thing....... nah...toooooooo long...anyway i hope all works out well for ya anyway!!

Hello my fragrant and exotic tropical blossom how you do blush
sweetly tonight

Hi slow!!

i think this thread needed that

Hmm.... Maybe the young ladies I talk to will continue to talk to me if I look like a busty cartoon nurse too. *lol*