then again the "crime" illegals have committed is not bigger than the crime you fathers committed stealing the land of the native americans, so who is who?
and
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"WELL THE COST OF U.S. AMERICAN TO FIGHT A WAR FOR THE BENIFIT OF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD,WITHOUT HELP FROM GOVERNMENTS LIKE MEXICO WHO DOESNT WANT THEIR OWN PEOPLE BACK,IF AS AN ILLIGAL U.S. CITIZEN IMMIGRANT IN MEXICO YOU WOULD BE DEPORTED WITHOUT A CHANCE TO DEFEND OR BE HEARD IN A COURT OF LAW WHATS WRONG WITH PLAYING BY THE SAME RULES,ENOUGH BLEEDING HEARTS IT IS TIME WE TAKE CARE OF US AND CUT THE PURSE STRINGS AND ASSISTENCE TO THE ILLEGAL INVADERS THEY ARE CRIMINALS AND WALKER YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO OUR COUNTRY,GO TO MEXICO AND TAKE REBA AND ALL THE CRIMINALS WITH YOU AND HELP THEM THERE IF YOU CARE ABOUT THEM SO MUCH ITS NOT BAD ENOUGH THAT NAFTA IS KILLING US BUT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY CARE FOR THIS COUNTRY STAND YOUR GROUND.GO LOU DOBBS! "
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it's just ridiculous that somebody states something like "fight a war for the benefit of everyone in the world."

I'm sorry but i don't argue ridiculous and aberrant statements.

Ok Walked i didnt condone or sponcer the war in Iraq i have been totally against it from before it started but never or less we are in it for the benifit of Bush and his Republican cronies.It doesnt give people of other countries to enter our country illegally,the illegal immigrants need to return to their country and attemp to fix their crooked governments and provide a better life there for their children and grand children instead of invadeing U.S..As to my fore fathers did not travel across this land and steal and kill the indians and even if they did it doesnt give foreign illegals to come and stay here that was then and this is now we have federal laws against it .As to illegals in mexico or other foreign countries by U.S. citizens you are wrong they are now and have been for many years been deported for over staying their visas.

Dean121,
if it wasn't for America they would have a better life in their own country. Just think of the ridiculous taxes, and buy basics dirt cheap there, and selling the finished products far overrated back to them.
It has to start with the US, and nowhere else.

Its beoyond rational reasoning that would say well you government is spending billions a week so why shouldnt the criminal be rewarded,it would be like saying let the child molesters out of prison ald give them some children what a ridiculious statement,we will force our government to enforce our laws.Do these special interest groups think if the illegals left we wouldnt survive.

Right on Dean!!!

In Latin America and I'll speak of Mexico. Even Legal Foreigners have no rights in concern with the law. They can pick you up without a reason, detain you for the period of time they wish
Here, Legal Aliens have limited rights. No Illegal has any rights. They break the Law by entering without permission.
Let me ask you Miguel, if you are so dissatisfied with the way this country is run and it's policies on Illegals, why are you here.
Doesn't your Country need anti-government voices like yours there, to fight against whatever is wrong with their system? It sounds as if you want to be here yet, bring the ways of your country here. Why did you flee anyway?

spur why do you assume he fled?miguel is just passionate about the things he believes in!!! have you not ever felt like that about anything?

My mistake.
Miguel, did you flee to come here?

Well spur maybe he didnt flee to here but u r right why try to change us go there and change their problems why does all thes people think we owe them something,a chance for a better life the mexican send their money back to mexico by the billions how are they really helping this country,maybe the countries we should be at war with is south america and asumulate them and the U.S. would better off we support them like bastard children and and what do we get in return.Walker when was the last time you were in the emergency room at the hospital it is packed with hispanics why do we have to supply illegals with all the health care for these people what have they paid to be in there.Most illegals work under the table or what taxes have they paid what contrubutation have they made to the legals you need to find a better fight maybe do your home work and fight with a little information people like me will take our country back no matter of the cost my children and grand children deserve it giving away our country isant working.We have free trade with the south americans and over a million jobs have moved there how many people here dont have the job and security anymore because of nafta which was suppose to help them,we have been bleed dry and obviously that isant enough for people like you who in the end are willing to return to your native land but where are we suppose to go after we have been run into the crapper on the same level as the third world countries then will you bleeding hearts be happy then. I am as passionate about my views and have liveds all over this country i see it as an attack on our nation and am willing to fight for it with words or what ever is necessary.

sorry your responce about killing and stealing from the indians we went to war with them and they lost but we pay retrubution og billion and billion a year to them so who really lost i guess you havent been to any casinos.

TLW you brand me a hater just because I call it like it is. Funny how people like resort to name calling when your argument starts to leak like a sieve. You use every manner of circular logic to try to advance your point. Now we stole the land from the Indians so that makes it ok for people to enter this country illegally. Quit drinking the koolaid for a while and perhaps you will be able to get a grip on reality.

If you commit a crime you are a criminal, entering this country illegally is a crime and I could care less what the motives for it are. Employing Illegal Aliens is also a crime and both should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

yeah, cause...having to pay money makes up for the complete loss of land and an almost genocide...

ahem. jaywalking is a crime...why do you choose what you wish to enforce?

miguel didn't flee...he's here for an education.

The type of crime is irrelevant. I don't enforce any. I advocate strongly on this one. One, the law was broken when they entered illegally. Two, it's not only unfair to the American People, it's unfair to those who could be Legal Temporary Migrant Workers who are denied access because their jobs had been filled by the Illegal. There are many more valid reasons. Not to mention exploitation of the Illegal.

Why, by hiring them at a lower scale, you advocate exploitation. That's abusive.

I know, Miguel is young, handsome and comes across as a kind, gentle man. I respect his opinions. I asked him the question. FYI, he has stated he only has 2 more years to becoming a citizen. If he were here only on a student VISA, why would he apply for citizenship? To me applying for citizenship would mean his only reason to go back to South America is to visit.

when did i ever say i hired them at a lower scale? i never exploited my workers, ANY of them...

i WILL say that my latinos worked harder, for the most part, than any other employees i had, also for the most part. their raises reflected that hard work, i might add.

i don't see as how we are entitled to this land just because we were the ones with the luck of the draw to be born here.

this american feels it would be unfair to send them back...our infrastructure has integrated these "illegal people" so fully that we might just collapse without them. i'm not into the temp-worker thing, as i want people to put down roots in their community...to feel it belongs to them. NOT just come over for a year or three and go back.

eh, i'm off.

Mr Spur:
Any of your arguments lose validity when u keep commiting the same single mistake assuming things that you don't even know.
FIrst of all the word "FLEE" implies that I ran away from my country due to a wrongdoing, that is just false. I LEFT my country, that is a different. So, Sir start making the right questions, and you'll start getting the right answers.
This is the second time that you try to get self incriminatory statements from me. (the first time was when u ask me is i supported illegal transportation of people.)
Second, I can't talk about mexico because i've never been there, but if we talk about my country. I've never seen or heard about arresting foreign people without any reason. So if that is true in Mexico, It's false in the rest of the American continent.

Mr. Gardenforge:
Your mind is so closed in just the idea that the government has planted in your mind, and in too many other people minds of the word CRIMINAL. As I have stated before crossing a border of any country illegally is an offense no matter what. However, even in murder trials there are affirmative defenses, and mitigating circumstances. The matter of the fact is that you Sir, have been endoctrinated fear and hate against these peoplem, without who North America would not be what it is.
I'm not saying that you are a hater per se, I'm just saying is that you've been naive enough to eat the government's propaganda after 9/11.

I'm not trying to condone immigrants for crossing the border illegally when I mention the masacre of native americans or the stealing of their land, or the atrocity of the crime of slavery.
My only point with this is that before criticizing others we need to see how did we come here, how did we get the famous so called "american lifestyle."

One more time I would like to address, Mr. spur said that if I were so disastified about the way my country is why I don't go back, and protest my government in my own country. I don't do it because there are plenty of people doing that overthere.

So then again don't forget about Rome, and why it fell.

sorry, one more thing.
Ask any of the non-north american posters in this forums, and you will see that any of them will agree with me in pretty much everything I say.
There are some north american that are objective enough to see the things that we see.
But the rest are good children of the propaganda system of the government.

So lula you say that not only are you a criminal for hiring illegals but a traitor why didnt you hire U.S. born mexicans you stumble over your own words,and walker you come here on a school visa and apply for citizenship i guess you also filed for the grants and loans the U.S. has why arent you willing to get your education and go back you want to change our government but you you really want is to drag this country you are a good example why our schools should be for us not you you haters you blame us for wanting to peserve our country go home after that degree and do us a big favor fix your broken country and if there were enough people fighting that battle over there it would have changed by now you talk too much crap and all you bleeding hearts want to destroy our way of life you dont belong here.

Dean stated: "Do these special interest groups think if the illegals left we wouldnt survive."

Illegals usually tend to do the low labor jobs that citizens will not do or fill spaces in manual labor pools where there is a lack of people to fill positions in general. No labor = no productivity . That is real easy to understand. Also because they will generally work at lower wages it keeps consumer prices down. So to answer the question ask yourself these. If there isn't anybody to do the work at a reduced cost to the company, therefore keeping overall cost to the public down, who among the 'ship them home no matter what' crowd is willing to do the low paying jobs and pay the higher consumer costs?


The economy would have a hard time recuperating from the mass expulsion of all illegals. Sorry to tell you this but you need them.

i bet to differ with you karma let me tell you a story i was hitchhiking across the country 20 years ago i was given a ride by a man who had a van and went to needles ca. to carry watermelons to stores in the desert i was very surprised to see that the people working in the fields were whites and blacks there are people enough to fill their jobs the only ones really making money are the land owners and the contractors the illegals have destroyed the middle class they work for lower wages and the majority dont really plan to stay here we deserve to have a decent wage why should the employers not have to share more of their profits and allow us to have some security our fathers have worked hard for these benifits and have been undermined by illegals who do work for a lower wage i bet we will survive and prosper again slave wages should be in the past and exploiting the illegals shouldnt be tolerated.But i know the mexicans live in huddle masses in houses to pay their bills and we arent willing to live like that just to make a few elite rich.

Higher wages = higher costs = higher consumer costs. The problem then becomes will the public at large be willing to pay for the increase in prices at market. I doubt it. Even if the laborors are making decent wage this will still result in not having spending power because of the increase in costs at market. So the decent wage is no longer a decent wage. Leading to an increase in wage = increase in costs = increase in consumer costs leading to same result. It's a vicious circle.