The topic of this discussion thread has nothing to do with President Obama's place of birth (which is Hawaii) or his professed religious affiliation (which is Christianity).

From my OP of this thread:
"So, African-American pastors are accusing Democrats Barack Obama and Eric Holder of contradicting values cherished in the African-American community."

Are those African-American pastors correct about Democrats Eric Holder and Barack Obama?

yes and no

yes, because there is a "old fashioned" culture of African americans whose values are not being supported by laws supporting gay marriage, or abortion,,,for instane

but that culture is not the SAME culture for ALL African americans, so there are also those African americans whose (modern) culture is being supported by laws that support those same types of controversial issues

So that would be your claim to knowledge, that is something I could believe.

I don't care if he was born in the White House in Lincoln's bedroom, doesn't change matters one iota. See definition under international law, Vattel: The Law of Nations

"CHAP. XIX.
OF OUR NATIVE COUNTRY, AND SEVERAL THINGS THAT RELATE TO IT.

� 212. Citizens and natives.

The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country."

And our founders were very well versed on this work and have mentioned it many times in their papers. Now the constitution is to be construed by the meanings of the authors, and this is their understanding.

This is but another example of the government flaunting the vagrant disregard for the founding document, our constitution and the idiots that let them, starting with the mystical beings in their black robes, members of the BAR all.

And he is far from any concept of a christian unless you include worshiping the demons as Christianity. I am sure most Christians would object to that.



Not really, already addressed this.

Twist, twist, twist. Spin, spin, spin, here we go again.

From the "About Us" page of the website of the Coalition of African American Pastors:



Apparently, those "old fashioned" values are Christian values.

'traditional' , 'old fashioned',,,, same thing

Christian value is also a term some use, although many dispute what values are truly 'christian' or not,,,

Do you dispute the fact that the New Testament speaks against same-gender marriage?

If Holder is found to Not Uphold the Laws of the Land, there is ample cause for Impeaching him; one could use Eric Holder's Press Statements as proof that he will not uphold the laws that Congress had passed.

The House could, with cause, pass Impeachment Papers against him, but the Senate would never take it up; the Demon-Rats would do anything to protect Obama, and Impeaching Holder, whatever the arguments, would be seen as an attack on the President.

I dispute that it actually specifically mentions anything against same gender marriage,

I don't dispute that I agree with the interpretation that its indirect statements regarding sexual immorality include same sex relations,,,

Remarkable statement.

I know, IM quite remarkable sometimes

dispute: argue about (something); discuss heatedly.
agree: have the same opinion about something; concur


I would argue about whether the bible SPECIFICALLY mentions same sex marriage

I wont argue, that I have the same opinion(as others) regarding the interpretation of other scriptures,,,

Not really the point, is it!

If you want to live in a country where the clergy get to dictate official policy, maybe you should try Iran.

That's so far , it's in a different dimension.

Earth to Mort,Earth to Mort,fire your Retros please!

And you still have motor control? AMAZING!

It wasn't until the merchants took control that ended the rule of the clergy. Until then the king, a divine being, keep control because of the church, after all how could a being that was of god deny the church, canon law.

And the injustices of canon law have only been matched by the atrocities of Hitler.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised when you bozos miss the connection. The thread starts out with a group of black pastors calling for Holder's resignation. Tell me again why pastors should be calling the shots?

I guess you got all wrapped around the axle on the mention of Iran. You guys make me laugh.