Topic: Which country is more racist-America or England?
Dodo_David's photo
Thu 01/02/14 12:21 PM
Edited by Dodo_David on Thu 01/02/14 12:27 PM




Nobody here is denying the continued existence of racism.

In a previous post of mine, I give examples of racism being practiced in the Middle East and in Japan.

While we acknowledge the continued existence of real racism, we should also acknowledge the existence of false claims of racism.

Here is an example of a false claim of racism:
Claiming that the Tea Party is racist.

Yeah, that image shown above is falsely representing the Tea Party.

Here is another example of a false claim of racism:
Claiming that most Americans are racists.

The former false claim is used in an attempt to silence political opponents.

The latter false claim is, IMHO, an act of psychological projection on the part of the one who is making the claim.

Shy_Emo_chick's photo
Thu 01/02/14 12:58 PM
Try asking that at border control. laugh

no photo
Thu 01/02/14 01:03 PM
[redacted]

America or England? Are those the two choices?

Honestly, the imperialistic nature of the British empire was genocidal... but the sun totally set on that.

America was also genocidal. I mean... we did use biological warfare against an entire nation that had no comprehension of the death-gift they were accepting.

So, I don't know if England ever used chemical warfare, but I know that America did and so my vote goes to them.

Damn, we're mean.

peachy78's photo
Thu 01/02/14 01:51 PM
I'm not racist...I hate everyone equally :wink:

msharmony's photo
Thu 01/02/14 01:59 PM





Nobody here is denying the continued existence of racism.

In a previous post of mine, I give examples of racism being practiced in the Middle East and in Japan.

While we acknowledge the continued existence of real racism, we should also acknowledge the existence of false claims of racism.

Here is an example of a false claim of racism:
Claiming that the Tea Party is racist.

Yeah, that image shown above is falsely representing the Tea Party.

Here is another example of a false claim of racism:
Claiming that most Americans are racists.

The former false claim is used in an attempt to silence political opponents.

The latter false claim is, IMHO, an act of psychological projection on the part of the one who is making the claim.



the tea party is obviously not racist, it is not a person
but it certainly includes racist people,,

that it includes racist people doesn't mean all people in the tea party are racist

most americans are racist, there is no way psychologically for them NOT TO BE, if they grow up with media and public education, the mind NATURALLY categorizes things and one category we learn to identify with early and often is RACE

its not my attempt to 'silence' anyone

it is also almost certainly silly to expect people to talk about the exceptions to a topic whenever they talk about a topic

when we talk about rape, we aren't obligated to talk about false rape accusations

when we talk about murder , we aren't obligated to talk about murders that go unsolved

there is usually a CONTEXT Set by the speaker of the boundaries and conditions of THEIR subject, without being subject to expand their boundary by those watching or listening,,,


If I talk about dogs, I don't have to talk about all the animals that are confused for dogs,,etc,,,


it opens up the kind of tangents in discussion that drive me quite mad actually,,,

willing2's photo
Thu 01/02/14 02:44 PM
Wright and Fairycan both preach hate whitey.

They have great, big congregations willing to hate whitey a'sangin dey practices.

msharmony's photo
Thu 01/02/14 02:51 PM
laugh laugh

no photo
Thu 01/02/14 05:36 PM
Edited by Mark_the_Man on Thu 01/02/14 05:37 PM

One very good example of brute collectivism would be the NOI. They don't allow whites or Jews in their gang.

Mormons used to be but,they were pressured into changing their belief system and allow Negros into their cult.


You mean gave universal permission to hold the priesthood? Since, ya' know, we mormons had black members since the 1830's and never banned them from joining the church (not a cult).

Also, that is not the way things operated originally. Under Joseph Smith the church was radical and very much progressive, and under his administration several black people held priesthood authority and leadership positions in the church, Mr. Elijah being a prime example. The ban came when every mormon apologist's favorite leader- Brigham Young, decided his opinions would become general policy. A decision that became a widespread problem for over a hundred years until the church was indeed pressured- from without as well as within, to change its stance. Thousands of members had already been protesting the act.

Just to keep the record straight here.

lionsbrew's photo
Thu 01/02/14 05:46 PM
Bigotry in general sucks. The more we talk about it though the more we have a chance to realize where the flaws in our thinking as a people are generated. Whether from previous generations or whatever its wrong. But as with everything people have to want to change.

Dodo_David's photo
Thu 01/02/14 06:03 PM
the tea party is obviously not racist, it is not a person
but it certainly includes racist people,,


Yeah, the Democratic Party includes racists, too. And?

that it includes racist people doesn't mean all people in the tea party are racist


So, why did you use an anti-Tea Party image to illustrate continued racism?

whoa

most americans are racist, there is no way psychologically for them NOT TO BE, if they grow up with media and public education, the mind NATURALLY categorizes things and one category we learn to identify with early and often is RACE


That sure is a lot of assuming on your part, and it looks to me that you are defining racism in a way that suits your desire.

I can't prevent a person from projecting racism onto others, but I can refuse to go along with it.

it is also almost certainly silly to expect people to talk about the exceptions to a topic whenever they talk about a topic

when we talk about rape, we aren't obligated to talk about false rape accusations

when we talk about murder , we aren't obligated to talk about murders that go unsolved

there is usually a CONTEXT Set by the speaker of the boundaries and conditions of THEIR subject, without being subject to expand their boundary by those watching or listening,,,


If I talk about dogs, I don't have to talk about all the animals that are confused for dogs,,etc,,,


it opens up the kind of tangents in discussion that drive me quite mad actually,,,


The author of the OP wants to write a book about racism, and such a book would not be complete without mentioning the rise of false claims of racism.

False claims of racism are harmful.

Now, why would anyone want to avoid discussing false claims of racism?




PacificStar48's photo
Thu 01/02/14 06:34 PM
I have a difficult time understanding how two countries as diverse in history, size, commerce base, and race distribution co9uld be compaired fairly as the UK and the USA.

Would it be a comparison of racism in only one race group or all races represented in the two countries?

How a person defined race would factor in also because in some countries the counties of origin often make subsets with in a single race.

How is a person going to define race in mixed race persons that have maybe four or more races behind them in blood lines? Will it be the old standard in for a penny in for a pound or is it what you pass as?

How are you going to evaluate the racism that occurs when it is "within" a race because of physical markers such a hair, eyelids, depth of pigmentation, stature, or eyecolor.

I wonder if this will just be another example of the junk science that is out there to promote a select few preordained premises that are already set in personal bigotry.


Dodo_David's photo
Thu 01/02/14 06:43 PM
"Race" is a social construct, and its definition has varied over the centuries. Once upon a time, people were considered to be of the same race if they were of the same nationality. Also, people were once considered to be of the same race if they spoke the same language.

It is a mistake to assume that, because one has been taught to look at everything through a prism of "race", everyone must be looking through the same prism.

msharmony's photo
Thu 01/02/14 10:36 PM
when someone is the victim of crime or witness and they ask 'do you know what race they were'


they usually cannot attest to the nationality or language,,,,,

but , anyway, for the record

I posted a pic due to the message, not the tea party element, I didn't even realize it was tea party until someone here brought it up

PacificStar48's photo
Thu 01/02/14 10:52 PM
What irritates me is when something that used to represent a LOT more than just racial predjudice and made it into a symbol of just that and now people on both sides of the issue now parade it out to goad each other.

I have lived all over the USA and some of the places that I have lived in that were suppose to be the model of diversity, freedom, intellect, and so forth that would supposedly separate them from racism were WAY more racist than the regions that used to fly the flag.

I have to say I would much more rather deal with bigots that say it to my face than the ones that masquerade's behind more subtle and destructive forms of racism such as set asides and other "protections" that protect only the ones who want to pretend it is not only fueling the fire.

msharmony's photo
Thu 01/02/14 11:02 PM
there is something to being able to see your enemy

though Id rather not have them at all, it is easier to defend against those who make themselves known than those who hide behind diplomatic words and compliments and smile in your face

and when I say enemy, I don't have any in terms of people, people are all imperfect on some level in my eyes, always capable of using some improvement

I use enemy to represent behaviors and attitudes and trends and cultures,,,etc,,,,,,,

uche9aa's photo
Fri 01/03/14 10:26 AM

[redacted]

America or England? Are those the two choices?

Honestly, the imperialistic nature of the British empire was genocidal... but the sun totally set on that.

America was also genocidal. I mean... we did use biological warfare against an entire nation that had no comprehension of the death-gift they were accepting.

So, I don't know if England ever used chemical warfare, but I know that America did and so my vote goes to them.

Damn, we're mean.

uche9aa's photo
Fri 01/03/14 10:34 AM

The fight against racism is against its appearance in any kind of legislation, it was originally about racism in laws that excluded some people from enjoying the same freedoms as other people, by law. The ridicule and slander was just icing on the cake, it was the laws (eg. apartheid) which were the big affront, the fact those subject to it were often treated with no better rights than animals by law enforcement and government bodies.

Nowadays in developed nations most racist legislation has disappeared, there are simply remnants of a bygone age still poking its ugly head up because no legal system has really been completely reformed since mediaeval times. Particularly in colonial nations where indigenous peoples were displaced, the very foundations of the legal system were specifically constructed to minoritise the indigenous populations often to the point of dehumanisation, so the very structure of law and governments are based heavily in racist theories and assertions held up with a face of innocence and conviction.

Where it stands today, a modern governing administration and/or legislative body can appease the public at large satisfactorily not by awarding more indigenous awards and compensation for proved crimes, nor by convening trials for accountability and lawsuit upon general humanitarian grounds, but by prosecuting members of the general public accused of speaking a racial slur or in some other way offending a person of a different culture.

This is appeasement to avoid reformation of residual, true racism, that which is buried in the very manner in which colonial nations came into being. And the fact is people which are very different culturally tend to become offended as easily as they are, like all other people, fallible and capable of misinterpretation or agenda.

eg. in Australia welfare organisations are required by law to ask whether any applicants wish to be identified as an indigenous person, so that certain specialised facilities maybe provided.
Yet if you identify as indigenous and live in the Northern Territory any wages or payments you're entitled to are held in trust and not paid directly, an advocate handles your finances by law, because public drunkeness is a big issue there and in trying to combat it, the local government has decided aboriginals are too barbaric to handle money, they're all just going to drink and take drugs with it, so it's kept from them even if they earned it, they have to apply for things they wish to buy with their own money.

Fighting racism whilst being inherently racist. That's the course of public appeasement on racism.

msharmony's photo
Fri 01/03/14 10:37 AM
fighting racism while being inherently racist,,,,


profound:smile:


izzyphoto1977's photo
Fri 01/03/14 10:45 AM
If you're going to use biological and chemical warfare as your criteria then by now probably just about all countries have used them in one form or another.

Bio weapons were the first as I recall used of the two and were made in the form of dead animals that they tossed or catapulted over walls. If memory serves this was how anthrax was discovered or made.

I really doubt that there is a most racist country. You can look at various criteria and get different results based on the criteria you choose to use. It's not going to be a clear cut answer.

uche9aa's photo
Fri 01/03/14 10:46 AM

fighting racism while being inherently racist,,,,


profound:smile:


Exactly! That assertion and other posts caught my attention.I'm enjoying the debate,very informative and helpful