yep,build more sacrificial Altars to the Great God KARL!

the fathers, they should be made to pay the money back that is needed to help raise THEIR CHILDREN until they are of the age to go to school giving mom time to go to a job,,,

hair dye costs about five bucks, the above mentioned makeup can be purchased for about 15, the hair cut,, maybe 40

in a months time (or possibly longer), I don't see what relevance spending sixty bucks on personal appearance has to do with anything,,,,

amen, we got the wrong lessons

we needed the more 'exclusive' opportunities and time (like others had) to invest in our communities to truly come close to being 'equal'

True!



What is equal? What makes opportunity what it is?


The playing field is NOT perfectly level today. Unequal opportunity due to racism, classism, sexism, ageism, etc etc are all FACTS of our culture today.

Unfortunately, too much of the dogma propagated by liberals in this area actually dis-empowers people. It encourages people to blame others rather than take responsibility and do something.

Even if your teachers assumed you were incapable because you are black, and you boss didn't give you career-building work opportunities because you are a woman, and you weren't invited to the great-for-networking social events because of your appearance or weight, and you weren't given the position because your southern drawl made you 'sound ignorant', and your poor parents couldn't afford dental care so you were incapable of making the best first impression....

....even if all of that is true, just being a citizen of the US in 2013 automatically GIVES you VASTLY more opportunity than many people around the world and most humans throughout history.




I agree, emphatically. I've seen this again and again.

and SOME PEOPLE insist that the impoverished are lazy undeserving moochers who should jump whatever hoops the 'taxpayers' decide they should just for the basics,,


which, due to the fact that income tax is based upon INCOME level, is a classist philosophy at its nature,,,


sigh, so glad we finally acknowledged, however indirectly , the relevance of discussing things that happen without it having to represent EVERYTHING That happens or be 'proven',,,,

Who?



Yes, our progressive income tax structure is classist. It places a greater cost on people who have higher salaries. Its classist, and its a good thing. Just like affirmative action is racist, and also a good thing.

What point follows from your observation that a progressive tax structure is classist? I mean - so what?



If you are addressing me or my statements, then maybe you can rephrase that in more specific terms.

Can the playing field ever be perfectly level? Perhaps not.

However, in the year 2013 C.E., the playing field is far more level that it was 40 years ago. Yet, some people keep claiming that the playing field is the same as it was back then. I can only speculate as to why.

No. And to make it perfectly level would be a terrible thing. People who don't realize this haven't thought much about what it really means. People look at classism and racism and see injustice and want to make the field 'more level', want to make opportunity 'more equal', and thats great - but then they start to worship the idea of equality without thinking about what it can mean.

Does everyone here know what a non-falsifiable hypothesis is?

That is what is presented when someone begins talking about alleged "invisible racism, classism, etc."

When an accuser can't prove something, the accuser resorts to a non-falsifiable hypothesis as an excuse for not being able to prove an accusation.

who? read through the threads sometimes,, we aren't allowed to make it personal by naming names,,,

my observation was not about the classist nature of the tax structure, it was about the CLASSIST perception that tends to follow it

making 'taxpayers'(those not too impoverished to pay) the lords and masters over non taxpayers,,,,

Hmm. Non-tax-payers vote into public office the politicians who raise taxes on the people who already pay the most in taxes.

So, who are the lords and masters?

no need to speculate, just research a little

1973, black unemployment was near 10 percent while white unemployment stood at near 5

today, white unemployment at 9 percent, while black stands at near 18

,,,,more level?


incarceration rates, nearly unchanged for white males,, increase 400 percent for black males

more level?


,,one doesn't really need to do much speculating to figure out why the playing field doesn't seem o have become any more 'level'

the process has changed the result remains unchanged,,,

I Cant see air, but enough people tell me its there for me to not expect black and white print on a screen to 'prove' it to me

'proof' is only as valuable as is the agreement to what the 'proof' means


I can show you an orange and a peach,, but if you cant see , it may not be 'proof' to you that they are different cultures

in short, can we get past the idea that somehow the only issues or topics that are real or discussable are those that have some uniform standard of 'proof' behind them

millions express their experience with racism, history documents American history of racism

why keep trying to imply all these people are just insane or looking for something that's not really there?

You just proved my point when I said, "Sadly, some people insist that unequal results must be due unequal opportunity."

If you don't see the relevance of spending $60 on wants, not needs, tell it to the woman boitching about having her free food money cut back by 38 bucks....Tell her to take it out of her "personal appearance" fund Plus you have no idea if you're correct or even close on what she spends for above mentioned wants, could be quadruple that!...The "relevance" lies within the fact that she claims she can't afford to feed herself and her family ...Food before makeup, hair dye or dye jobs which can cost over $100...Does your silence on the issue of the welfare babies her daughters are producing mean you think that is OK too?...

But, bich gotta be looking good to pump out mo ghetto rats.

You are talking about racism that is visible, that can be demonstrated to exist.

There is a scene in the 1960 movie The Time Machine that illustrates the phenomenon of people behaving as if past conditions remain present. In the movie, people enter bomb shelters upon hearing sirens, despite the fact that there are no more bombs. The people do so because their ancestors had experienced bombs.

The same thing happens when people assume "invisible racism" because visible racism took place previously. It is as if they are stuck in a time warp, like the people in the above-mentioned movie.

As I mentioned in another thread, people have a tendency to fight the kind of battles that they know how to fight.

If a problem is due to something other than racism, and if a person only knows how to fight racism, then that person might make a false cry of "Racism" in an attempt to put up a fight.

A straw-man is easier to fight than a real man.

I was somewhat hoping someone would call me out for using the word 'fact' in a sentence involving such loaded and abused words. Are you doing so?


I don't think that all non-falsifiable hypotheses should always be discounted simply because they are non-falsifiable. You can't *know* that a particular manager chose the white candidate over the black candidate because the manager was racist; even if you could prove through brain scans that he was having racist thoughts at the moment. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Some non-falsifiable ideas need to be taken very seriously and evaluated as best we can.

Yes, exactly. And if you have a very low standard of evidence, you will likely become - unknown to you - a person doing bad things in the world. Like crying racism when there is none, ignoring racism when there is, and worst of all wrapping yourself up in your comfortable ideology when someone critiques your claim.

IMO this works both ways on most discussions today about racism.




Funny, I just posted something that would seem to agree with this statement. I think there are ill-defined issues and poorly evidenced and impossible to prove issues that should be discussed. But Dodo is still right about the fondness many have for crying racism for reasons other than racism.




He never did.