oh good grief

ok then,,, lets pick a different profession,,,

is the court reporter making 50000 per year necessarily working any harder or more deserving than the teacher making 27000?

no,,, the point is,, people are blessed by the value SOCIETY places on them based upon their station or title or geographic location,,,etc,,,

things that are often tied to more than whether one has worked 'hard' or if they have 'merit'

For the sake of argument, suppose that two people grow up as neighbors, attend the same public schools and then attend the same college.

One chooses to become a teacher. The other chooses to become a court reporter.

Society has given them both the opportunity to become teachers.
Society has given them both the opportunity to become court reporters.

So, if one is making a larger salary than the other because of a difference in chosen occupations, then did society cause the salary difference?

Did society cause the teacher to become a teacher when society gave the teacher the opportunity to become a court reporter?

Equal opportunity doesn't guarantee equal results because people don't all choose to respond to opportunities the same way.

Very well said.

No. Freedom doesn't work that way. Court reporting is a specialized skill that commands high pay if done well. You don't get hired at all if you do it poorly. School teaching is a lower risk job that can be done well or not so well without losing your job.

Freedom allows you to choose the higher risk, higher skill job for more (or maybe no) money.

Freedom allows each of us to take risks for financial gain.

What you are arguing for is communism... as usual.

no, as I Said before, IM not talking about those who are making different choices in the SAME circumstances

IM talking about the difference in circumstances affecting the choices they are exposed to making


and the after affect of stigma that society places on people because of a 'label' and financial status that really has little to do with whether anyone is 'earning' the opportunity to eat and have shelter

anyone , going to a job forty hours a week , should be earning that opportunity,,

but with capitalism driving prices, people who can afford those prices accepting them to the disadvantage of those who cant, and wages that don't reflect those price increases,,

we continue the divide between haves and have nots which falsely leads the haves to believe they are more deserving of it or that the have nots somehow can create a situation by themselves where their work affords them the same basics,,,

and that's how YOU value those professions,,, court reporting is a skill that requires ONE thing,, the ability to type

working with children requires child psychology as well as skills in a number of educational areas and the long term affects on society of that job being done well are PRICELESS

some choose to make a big difference by being teachers, what you are saying is they should be less valued because they allegedly cant be fired

what IM arguing is 'value' not being dictated by 'finance' ,,,, as usual,,,


It seems to never occur to fools that merit and good fortune are closely united.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Ahhh. The spin never stops. First of all, I have nothing to do with how a court reporter is valued. It, like so many other things in a free market economy, is based on the demand by the end user. In this case a good court reporter protects the records of our justice system (valuable by most standards) by being able to keep accurate records. The ability to type is only a part of the job. A mind capable of holding in memory complicated legal jargon long enough to transcribe it is much more of it. If, as you say, it is just the ability to type, then thousands of court reporters would be flooding the market and the jobs would go cheap due to supply and demand.

I happen to value good teachers highly and think them underpaid. I also thing the unions have caused us great damage by not allowing the crappy teachers to be fired. I have seen the result of both.

Your thoughts and ideas mirror classic Communism to the infinite degree. You should read some history and learn what works and what doesn't. Income redistribution rewards the lazy and stifles production.

Who knows,
I am me, because I have made my own choices and choosen to be who I want to be.
but I am also a product of a happy childhood.
An abusive marriage.
having 6 wonderfully mad children.
and not giving a rats behind about what anyone thinks of me or what I do.

so I am self made but also not.

Perhaps it's that some people see themselves as not being worth as much as someone else.

I have little education, I don't own a house car or anything else.
But I cannot see that I am not worth as much as anyone else.
Nobody puts me down, I see myself as worth heaps, so what does it matter.
I have raised 6 KIDS ON MY OWN, LOVE LIFE. HAVE A WONDERFUL FAMILY , SO I AM SELF MADE, NOBODY ELSE MADE ME I DID.
NOBODY CAN PULL ME DOWN EXCEPT ME.

Your value is only determined by yourself.
If you feel you are worth less because you do not receive the recognition or money that someone else does, then that is your self made problem. not someone elses.

I agree

I agree, self worth is obviously from one self


but worth as in the worthiness to eat and have shelter,, is determined by how society values the individual,,,

Wait a minute, I want to get back to the "june bug" thing.

Iguess everyone is different. I value the old person who sits outside our shop as he is full of information, but I don't value the people who run our town as they have their noses stuck up their own behinds , so I suppose if you value the homeless then show them, we can only do things ourselves. Show the people who matter what you think, money wise it's useless to complain, if people want a high paying job then they need to change what they do, most things are a choice in life, if you choose to teach you know what you are getting yourself into. if you choose to do something that pays more than that's your choice, society doesn't make you choose what you do, your own choices in life do.