Most important of all is that you Pentecostals are the very ones Jesus is talking below...



See they do not even know that they are not known by Jesus.

WHAT A TERRIBLE DELUSION!

READ AND UNDERSTAND!!!

Why is the act of babbling (Tongues) dangerous.

1: Never in scripture has anything like it been recorded. On the day of Pentecost, they spoke in other languages as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance and we need to understand what Paul was talking about from that perspective. (Acts 2:4-12, 1 Corinthians 14)

2: They who interpret it are falsely prophesying. Saying it is from God gives the message they speak divine authority. The hearers then believe that we should give special heed to what is being said, and so obeyed and believed as if from God. This gives the messenger great power and influence over people. (Ezekiel 13)

3: The practice of it is giving the user false confidence, and on holding such great reverence for it, they cannot and will not give it up and so try with much enthusiasm to encourage others to practice it.(2 Peter 2:13)

4:It makes them think they are getting close to God when in fact by sinning they are moving further and further away from Him. (Jude 12)

5: They think that it is from the Holy Spirit when in fact it is a spirit that is causing them to sin.
6:It stems from a desire for experience, causing others to focus on experience and not faith in Gods goodness and Mercy as seen in the Bible. (2 Peter 1:19-21, Hebrews 10:38, Romans 10:17)

7: Since it is not from God, they who practice it must twist scriptures out of context to justify it ( 2 Peter 3:16) Thus driving them on to sin more and more. So this gift only drives the user on to sin on several different levels.

It doesn't edify the church but introduces several serious sins. Deceiving people, falsely prophesying, twisting scripture and putting the focus on experience and not faith.

Nothing good has ever or will ever come from this false gift that is not from God.

They who practice it love a lie, and so love deceiving others.

Not only do they delight in sin, but also delight in others who sin as well.

Christianity is suppose to save people from their sins, not encourage them to sin. (Mat 5:13-15)

So being a lie it hides the truth, causing people to sin means that the church is no longer purifying its members as salt purifies and preserves, thus losing its saltiness.

Huh, Guess we know what happened to the 12 disciples then! They cast out demons all the time and spoke in tongues when they entered the upper room. They even healed the sick! Those monsters!!

That's it I'm going to go say the sinners prayer and go celebrate my new found salvation with Hookers and beer! Thanks William!

According to the 2nd chapter of Acts, when the followers of the Messiah spoke in tongues, they spoke in known human languages that were immediately understood by visitors to Jerusalem who were natives of other nations.

In the 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians, the Apostle Paul says not to forbid the speaking in tongues. However, he gives specific instructions on how tongues are to be used.

The problem with modern-day usage of tongues is that people disobey Paul's instructions.

Adding to the problem is the fact that some people are relying on a flawed English translation of 1 Corinthians 14. Nowhere in the Greek manuscripts does that chapter contain the word unknown.

People who use modern-day English versions of the Bible are not exposed to that flaw.

Getting some people to admit that the older English version is flawed is like pulling teeth.

What he said.

Las time Iheard it was in some Pentecostal Church outside Ft.Lauderdale!
Chap looke a bit like a Native American,and his speaking wanted to sound like one of the tribal Languages!
Was somewhat common in the Church I grew up in!
Kind of frightening when someone all of a sudden has that kind of "Inspiration!
Fell in disuse sometime during the beginning of the Fifties!
Suppose the Church-Elders couldn't make neither Head nor Tail of it!

In 1 Corinthians 14, the Apostle Paul says that a person who is speaking in tongues is speaking to God.

Speaking to God is what we call prayer.

Sadly, some people mistakenly believe that "speaking in tongues plus the interpretation of tongues equals prophecy". Such a belief comes from a gross misinterpretation of what the Apostle Paul says.

As I said earlier, the word unknown is not in the Greek manuscripts of 1 Corinthians 14. In Acts 2, the tongues spoken by the Apostles and the disciples of Jesus were clearly known human languages.

Plus, in 1 Corinthians 14, the Apostle Paul describes a person speaking in tongues as praying to God.

What is happening today (in general) does not fit the New Testament description of tongues.

As William8 points out, "tongues" can have an ungodly source. Dr. Billy Graham mentions such unholy sources of "tongues" in his book The Holy Spirit. In it, he mentions the case of a young man of Caribbean heritage who identified a case of "tongues" as being the voodoo language used by his Caribbean grandmother.

Adding to the problem is the fact that some people believe that a message in tongues is a message from God to Man, which is the opposite of what the Apostle Paul said.

Nowhere in the Bible do we read that God delivered a message to people via unknown tongues. Instead, God either spoke directly, or He spoke through a prophet who delivered God's message in a language that was known to the listener.

I would watch what I say as proof. I have many friends who are from Assembly of god.

They believe it and my friends are very good people.

To call someone a Heretic then you must look in the mirror 1st.


all of you call yourself Christian. by that very name being called by the majority of believers you put yourself in the same situation as those you call such names.

The disciples are never recorded as calling themselves Christians so by your own logic you are a HERETIC.. huh

This thread has been edited of commentary
targeting other users and specific religions.

soufie
Site Moderator

A person can be mistaken about tongues and still be a devout Christian. That is why I would never call Pentecostals "heretics".

I agree. when you start to believe you can not be deceived yourself.. you are deceived already.

It is one thing to say, "I disagree with X because the Bible says Y."

It is another thing to call people heretics just because they believe X.

The former is tactful; the latter isn't.

Why practice love when you can be love.

Sometimes we can get so caught up in the practice of something that we lose sight of what that something is.

absolutely Dodo_David

Keeping with the topic of Tongues. It is true it is a hot topic in religion.

Some say its not meant for us today.

Then others say its the sign of the Holy Spirit.

In this thought reminds me when I was watching tv (during the Feast of Tabernacles} My 1st FOT in Big Sandy Texas. In the Piney woods they called it. And it was neat the pine needles were soft and completely covered the ground.. soft mat for our tents. 1600 campsites full for a week. This was with the (wwcg mentioned before I lasted 9 months. about a week after baptism) the 2nd day it rained 5 1/2 inches while we were sleeping.. We woke up because we were floating in water. The next day the laundry matts for 25 miles at least were all full everyone washing everything.

Well we finally got all done came back and our neighbor ( for some reason we were put with the Louisiana group. I was from Mo.) He played and made Mandilians. Toured with Toured with the ( Hee-hawian) who was a little big and played the mandilian rested on his tummy.

His whole family was their..It was so cool. His son-inlaw played the Standing Bass Violen. His daughter played the Harmonica, his son played the Banjo and he played the Mandelin. The Homemade band

They had a mic and we had a good ole fashion ( Hole-down?) is that what its said?

They sung people danced people started going up and singing in the mike a lot of clapping and time warped way past us.

Well that was the 2nd night.. nice surprise after a day at the laundry matt.

the 3rd night. I could not believe it. It happened again this time 6 inches woke us up and high winds.. we were lucky we was about in the middle of everything. tents went flying everywhere,

Daylight comes and my little one Cort and Kate 3 and 4 were running fevers. Small flue. Ended up getting a hotel room at Tyler Tx. While the girls got better then I get sick. quite a start to my 1st FOT.

While watching Tv I saw this show from a local minsters explaining and showing film they video taped it..

The talked and they baptized this poor guy and layed hands on him then told him to speak in tongues?

That got my interest.

Now we can command some one to speak in tongues. Oh this is just the beginning.. Maybe William saw this and that's all he really knows about them? but we get crazies everywhere we go..It happens)

Not the 1st one.

As this minister is telling him to speak in tongues so they would know the Holy Spirit entered them ( kinda proof)(kinda mans ways).

The guy kept saying I can't do it.. nothing is happening.

Finally another guy comes in and they both take him to the floor pinning him down. saying something about satan leave this man and the signs of tongues will come. something like that.

finally the guy started saying non sence and the preacher said something and they all got up.

Now their a Spirit for ya. I couldn't believe this was on Tv.

I have seen certain ones whos dateline has investigated and he lives like a king.

and this is what he does.

Isa 28:11-15

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, "This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,"
And, "This is the refreshing";
Yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was to them,
"Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little,"
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken
And snared and caught.

14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men,
Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem,
15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death,
And with Sheol we are in agreement.
When the overflowing scourge passes through,
It will not come to us,
For we have made lies our refuge,
And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves."
NKJV



Who is he speaking to hear? Now I am sure we all have heard this little but taken from these small verses to use/justify how we can jump anywhere in the scriptures with out ryme or reason.

"Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little,"

Now their a liscense for the everything religion.

Here alittle their a little. Preacher holds bible up High.

Their it is. u gotta love these guys.

All preacher love them words. Its like a liscense to steal.

But who is IsaYah really talking about or to who.. so many questions here.

Read this part of IsaYah and see if you can see anything of today in it?

At the beginning of the chapter it begins with Ephriam. who had a special blessing.
Jacob's / Israel's Blessing

Gen 48:17-19

17 Now when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on the head of Ephraim, it displeased him; so he took hold of his father's hand to remove it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. 18 And Joseph said to his father, "Not so, my father, for this one is the firstborn; put your right hand on his head."

19 But his father refused and said,"I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations."
NKJV


IsaYah is talking to Ephriam who's blessing is greater yet is not found in the 144,000 of Rev. 7 ,

Isa 28:1

Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim,
Whose glorious beauty is a fading flower
Which is at the head of the verdant valleys,
To those who are overcome with wine!
NKJV


Ephriam sounds like the world gone wild

Overcome with wine!


Isa 28:2-3
2 Behold, the Lord has a mighty and strong one,
Like a tempest of hail and a destroying storm,
Like a flood of mighty waters overflowing,
Who will bring them down to the earth with His hand.
3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim,
NKJV


Almost seems like todays weather is to bring down the The Crown of Pride?


Where's The Crown of Pride?


Remember here a little their a little?

Isa 28:15
When the overflowing scourge passes through,
It will not come to us,
For we have made lies our refuge,
And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves."
NKJV


Sometimes I wonder if this whole chapter is not speaking of the Most Powerful Babylon to come US.

Is the US, The Crown of Pride? even people being called Royalty.

Isa 28:3-4
3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim,
Will be trampled underfoot;
4 And the glorious beauty is a fading flower
Which is at the head of the verdant valley,
Like the first fruit before the summer,
Which an observer sees;
He eats it up while it is still in his hand.
NKJV

Just watching congress the Last few years If you told me they were all Drunkards.. I'd believe ya.

We have been the World Glorious Beauty since WW2

But their comes a fading flower.
Which is at the head of the verdant valley,

Verdant is a weird translation this really says..

Isa 28:4

And shall be 1961
a flower, 6733
fading 5034
the 9999
glorious 6643
beauty, 8597
which 834
is 9999
on 5921
the head of 7218
valley, 1516
the 9999
fat 8081
and 9999
as the hasty fruit 1061
before 2962
the summer; 7019


the head of 7218 is translated Vardent (valley


OT:7218

OT:7218 ro'sh (roshe); from an unused root apparently meaning to shake; the head (as most easily shaken), whether literal or figurative (in many applications, of place, time, rank, itc.):

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Shaking the head,place, time,rank


If these verses are speaking of us today right now, right here.. This chapter is unfolding before our eyes as 1 meaning

What is the Glorious Land of Beauty going through?



Isa 28:5-6

5 In that day the LORD of hosts will be
For a crown of glory and a diadem of beauty
To the remnant of His people,
6 For a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment,
And for strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate.
NKJV


To the Remnant of his people. whats coming to them?
We know the Remnant Satan attachs when he can not get to the chosen in Rev 12.

Rev 12:17
the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
NKJV

The Remnant ( Ephriam) the Crown of Glory who sits in Judgement,His strength is so as to turn the enemy away?

A strong offence is the best defence?

Could this be speaking of not only everyday, today. That Ephriams pride will bring her down?

and If we Study we could see whats coming? could Babylon, the Whore and the Beast be as the Pride of the World already?

The Drunkard Congress The King too


Isa 28:7-8

7 But they also have erred through wine,
And through intoxicating drink are out of the way;
The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink,
They are swallowed up by wine,
They are out of the way through intoxicating drink;
They err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
8 For all tables are full of vomit and filth;
No place is clean.
NKJV


I like that verse 8. What a good description of all their Tables as they loose control.

For all tables are full of vomit and filth;
No place is clean.


self explanatory

Ever wonder who we are in Prophecy? are we the Beast, the whore, where's the man of sin?

With all the countries we are in saying Democracy is at hand its good for you. How do they do it?

Isa 28:9-10

9 "Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little."
NKJV

Everything everywhere as that Crown of Beauty were pondering " How do we make them understand? who can we really trust?

Iraq's just been weaned. Next afgan., Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, all mid eastern countries we are trying to work with.

Who can we trust. The Syrian Rebels became quite once the Eypytian coo started. already forgotten in our minds. Turkey is our ally we want ashad crushed, alqaida is their now. who are they working with? No wonder its being quite what we are doing. Explosion around Israel could happen at anytime and we will defend Israel but will they 1st try and defeat each other?

Whats been happening working with them the last 20 years?

Isa 28:11-12

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, "This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,"
And, "This is the refreshing";
Yet they would not hear.
NKJV


Democracy and peace, this is the New Age.

Yet will they listen?

In 1 Corinthians 12, the Apostle Paul tells us that the Holy Spirit gives different spiritual gifts to whomever God wants to have them. Paul explains that not every believer is given the same gift.

So, it contradicts Paul's teaching to insist that every Christian speak in tongues.

Indeed, in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul says that he would prefer that every believer engage in forth-telling instead of speaking in tongues.

Again, Paul says that a person who speaks in tongues is speaking to God, and speaking to God is what we call "prayer".

That is one way you can tell whether or not tongues are divine in origin. If the interpretation of tongues is a prayer to God, then the tongues may be divine in origin. However, if the interpretation is an alleged "message from God", then either the tongues or the interpretation are not divine in origin.

How does this come into play then?

1 Thess 5:16-22

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing , 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.
NKJV

stories do go around,that People would start speaking in a Language they had never studied or heard,and someone in the place,would be a Speaker of that precise Language,and the Message was for that particular Person!
Don't quote me on it,just something I was told in my Youth,and some stories I have heard since!

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.166-7), Hamlet to Horatio

Even the Bard knew it!