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| Topic: Brave Student Prays in Graduation Speech | |
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he feels just as disappointed IM sure, as I do but that has little to do with whether we love each other he thinks I should be happy if he is happy, I have a different idea of what being a parent is primarily, thinking Im gonna encourage healthy behavior and not encourage unhealthy behavior,,, ,,,my parents HAVE rejected people I Was with,, and with good reason,, having the communication we have I related to and understood everyone of their objections I understood it came from love and protection I continued with my choice, and they didnt disrespect me or the other person nor did they pretend to be happy about it they dealt with us as INDIVIDUALS ,, how about that? not as a GAY COUPlE, or a STRAIGHT COUPLE,, that element they stayed out of COMPLETELY And we didnt force it on them or flaunt it in front of them out of respect,,, I'm sorry I have a little different definition of love than you do, I don't think this is really love, it's more love with some conditions to me. Love to me means you put their happiness over your own, and desire the best for them even if they have a different definition of it than you might. I don't think you truly do that because even though you don't push your belief on him now, you have made it clear you reject his lifestyle which is a part of who he is. I don't see that as loving, I'm sorry but I don't. And to me.....I would feel disrespected if my parents rejected a lover of mine strictly on a basis like this, because it say to me they care again more about their morality and superiority than about what I need, and I think your son feels the same way. sorry if you have such a shallow relationship with your parents my relationship with my children started WELL before they made sexual choices and our bond is based in love not some utopian idea of everything that feels good to you is ok by me,,,, TRUST , that in my family, family is family and truth is truth and love shall never require turning from the truth,,, my son and my daughter are FIRST AND FOREMOST my son and my daughter and thats where our love starts ALWAYS,, whatever else is happening in our lives,,, they understand that completely,,, ,, you have no clue what my son feels,, from what I Have read, your family life has nothing in common with mine or my children actually in some ways I think it does......because I could see myself being treated the same way for how I think now as I was/have been by my own family. Part of why I am reacting so strongly against it, cause I lived it/am living it. |
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he feels just as disappointed IM sure, as I do but that has little to do with whether we love each other he thinks I should be happy if he is happy, I have a different idea of what being a parent is primarily, thinking Im gonna encourage healthy behavior and not encourage unhealthy behavior,,, ,,,my parents HAVE rejected people I Was with,, and with good reason,, having the communication we have I related to and understood everyone of their objections I understood it came from love and protection I continued with my choice, and they didnt disrespect me or the other person nor did they pretend to be happy about it they dealt with us as INDIVIDUALS ,, how about that? not as a GAY COUPlE, or a STRAIGHT COUPLE,, that element they stayed out of COMPLETELY And we didnt force it on them or flaunt it in front of them out of respect,,, I'm sorry I have a little different definition of love than you do, I don't think this is really love, it's more love with some conditions to me. Love to me means you put their happiness over your own, and desire the best for them even if they have a different definition of it than you might. I don't think you truly do that because even though you don't push your belief on him now, you have made it clear you reject his lifestyle which is a part of who he is. I don't see that as loving, I'm sorry but I don't. And to me.....I would feel disrespected if my parents rejected a lover of mine strictly on a basis like this, because it say to me they care again more about their morality and superiority than about what I need, and I think your son feels the same way. sorry if you have such a shallow relationship with your parents my relationship with my children started WELL before they made sexual choices and our bond is based in love not some utopian idea of everything that feels good to you is ok by me,,,, TRUST , that in my family, family is family and truth is truth and love shall never require turning from the truth,,, my son and my daughter are FIRST AND FOREMOST my son and my daughter and thats where our love starts ALWAYS,, whatever else is happening in our lives,,, they understand that completely,,, ,, you have no clue what my son feels,, from what I Have read, your family life has nothing in common with mine or my children actually in some ways I think it does......because I could see myself being treated the same way for how I think now as I was/have been by my own family. Part of why I am reacting so strongly against it, cause I lived it/am living it. no, we wont go there though I will just repeat that , from your posts, your family and mine are NOTHING alike,,,except that we both had bibles in our lives somewhere along the way,, how many times a day does your mom and dad hug you? how many times are the words 'I love you' uttered? How many times DAILY do you share laughs? How much time DAILY do you spend talking communicating or planning with each other? How often have you needed something (a true NEED, not a desire) and they came through and vice versa? How often have you wanted something badly that you struggled with and they came through for you and vice versa? How many times when you were down and out did they pull you up? yeah,, all THAT is what LOVE is about,, I get the feeling that is nothing like what you 'react' to,,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 11:13 PM
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how many times a day does your mom and dad hug you? how many times are the words 'I love you' uttered? How many times DAILY do you share laughs? How much time DAILY do you spend talking communicating or planning with each other? How often have you needed something (a true NEED, not a desire) and they came through and vice versa? How often have you wanted something badly that you struggled with and they came through for you and vice versa? How many times when you were down and out did they pull you up? yeah,, all THAT is what LOVE is about,, To a degree yes, but remember there is more than one form of love, there are other forms of love that matter just as much such as the validation of your life and where you're going with it by those closest to you. Those things you speak of are important, but it doesn't mean other parts are less so. In fact for some, they may need the other types more depending on the person, it's not a one size fits all type of deal to me. Some can be fine with just what you speak of, but others may need more. I can't speak for your son but for me said validation is as important to me as saying or physically showing you love me, to have it rejected doesn't make me feel very good. Your son may be different I don't know, but I kind of doubt it from what you've said and how much his lifestyle is a part of who he is. You may think the love you give is all he needs but it may not be the case. |
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Edited by
Conrad_73
on
Sun 06/09/13 11:54 PM
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All I am gonna say is this, I best not hear about anyone complaining if a Muslim prays publicly to Allah, or when any other religion or type of spirituality, has a public prayer for that matter, or even when an atheist chooses to make public his or her non belief. Because if you have the right to put yours out like this, so too do they, to say otherwise is hypocritical. So yeah, you want your right to be seen/heard? Fine. But don't complain when someone else wants to do the same, because they deserve the same right then. 
Yep. I would like to see someone get up and recite a prayer to Satan and see who gets excited. 
That ought to get things moving! |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 06/10/13 06:04 AM
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how many times a day does your mom and dad hug you? how many times are the words 'I love you' uttered? How many times DAILY do you share laughs? How much time DAILY do you spend talking communicating or planning with each other? How often have you needed something (a true NEED, not a desire) and they came through and vice versa? How often have you wanted something badly that you struggled with and they came through for you and vice versa? How many times when you were down and out did they pull you up? yeah,, all THAT is what LOVE is about,, To a degree yes, but remember there is more than one form of love, there are other forms of love that matter just as much such as the validation of your life and where you're going with it by those closest to you. Those things you speak of are important, but it doesn't mean other parts are less so. In fact for some, they may need the other types more depending on the person, it's not a one size fits all type of deal to me. Some can be fine with just what you speak of, but others may need more. I can't speak for your son but for me said validation is as important to me as saying or physically showing you love me, to have it rejected doesn't make me feel very good. Your son may be different I don't know, but I kind of doubt it from what you've said and how much his lifestyle is a part of who he is. You may think the love you give is all he needs but it may not be the case. yes, I guess love is different for everybody, in my family it isnt determined by whether we go along with each other on everything,, its determined by how we treat each other when we dont go along and 'who we are' in my family doesnt center around our sexual preferences,, but instead around our character and our family relation we are validated from the moment we are born,, LONG BEFORE we make sexual choices in our lives, so that our feeling of 'love' isnt dependent upon how others feel about that one part of our life once we decide to engage in sex,,, we are taught our beauty and validation comes from our CHARACTER, our INTEGRITY, our RESPECTFULNESS and how we treat others,,,that is '''WHO WE ARE".. long before we even decide to have sex,,,, I LOVE who my children 'are',,,,,,,I dont have to love or even pretend to like everything my children DO my family is full of beautiful and imperfect people including myself, and we never felt less validated because of the truth of our imperfections,,,,,or less loved,,,,because we focus on the real substance of human life,, which in our family, is not about any sexual labels or chosen sexual behaviors,,, what we NEED is love, and my children have it in droves,,,,,, |
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just for the sake of it, what if you found out you were wrong? what if you found out that your son was very hurt by your rejection of such an important part of his life and didn't tell you? what would you do?
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I don't care if someone prays, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do you guys get from pushing your prayers on others? Why is it so important that you're able to pray in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make religion and prayer a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? because my god is better than your god.... |
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well then they are 'selfish' because they should expect a valedictorian at such an event who expresses THEIR Personal view of their future,,
thats what happens,,, if they dont want to hear about religion, maybe they should make sure their kid gets to be the valedictorian so that religion isnt mentioned,, So, if it were an atheist who was valedictorian and they went on about how god wasn't real, you'd be fine with that? No they wouldn't. I can just hear the speech now. Ladies and Gentlemen, I have some good news for you all. There is no heaven or hell and the Devil does not exist and there is no God and Jesus is not coming back. You are on your own. So please take responsibility for yourselves and be kind to one another and live your lives the best way you c Thats a good point Jeannie personally, I go to graduations to celebrate my loved ones accomplishment, and if the valedictorian chosen to speak expressed that was his view,, I wouldnt whinge about it it wouldnt be the point of why I was there and he would be free to feel and express whatever he wanted,, without me needing to 'like it' in order to respect his right to feel it and say it,,, Personally, I don't believe you. Oh I believe you would not whinge or make a fuss because you would just let it slide so as not to make a scene. But you would not like it if someone got up there and started talking about there not being any God, or about Gay rights. Especially gay rights. I wouldnt like it and I wouldnt have to,, but there would be plenty of other things going on that I WOULD like ,, and my expectation would not be that everything in that public forum would be something I 'liked',,,,, I dont expect in public that every person is going to be doing and saying things I LIKE,, because I dont expect everyone to like the same things,,,, Ok so then if you understand that, what makes you think you have the right to tell someone else how to act personally in front of you, not preaching but just being who they are. never said anything about having that right, I cant tell any adult how to act unless they are in my home,,, not sure what you are talking about,,, just the idea of being so upset and offended when gay people show being gay in public. can you be anymore off topic????? |
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I don't care if someone prays, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do you guys get from pushing your prayers on others? Why is it so important that you're able to pray in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make religion and prayer a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? because my god is better than your god....
You know like:"Just wait until my Big Brother gets here"! 
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I don't care if someone prays, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do you guys get from pushing your prayers on others? Why is it so important that you're able to pray in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make religion and prayer a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? because my god is better than your god....
You know like:"Just wait until my Big Brother gets here"!
thats how it seems...lol, the fanatics have it made! i wonder how many wars were started because of that thought process? |
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I don't care if someone prays, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do you guys get from pushing your prayers on others? Why is it so important that you're able to pray in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make religion and prayer a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? because my god is better than your god....
You know like:"Just wait until my Big Brother gets here"!
thats how it seems...lol, the fanatics have it made! i wonder how many wars were started because of that thought process?  Quite a few,you can be sure of that!
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can you be anymore off topic?????
Keep in mind, alleoops is the one that went off topic with talking about homosexuality. Not sure why, but he did bring that to the discussion. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 06/10/13 08:37 AM
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just for the sake of it, what if you found out you were wrong? what if you found out that your son was very hurt by your rejection of such an important part of his life and didn't tell you? what would you do? Id continue to reinforce that I love him by all the other actions that love consists of Id continue to reinforce that I value him as a person and I REFUSE to define him or his value by his sexual lifestyle and Id continue to reinforce that as his mom, its my job to want what is healthy for him, even when he may have a preference for something else,,, that it is BECAUSE I love him that I care enough not to cave in and pretend its ok or healthy ,, BECAUSE Im his mom Im gonna be HONEST with him when I think his decisions are not healthy but he already knows this, it is strongly enforced in my family that love is not about saying I dont care if,,,,,,,,as long as you're "happy" parents who do that just to make kids happy, generally can put a period after the CARE. I do care, thats why I want him to be healthy which his lifestyle is not,,,,he understands that,,,,even if he doesnt agree or would rather me accept it,, he understands the reason for the disapproval is LOVE,,,just like my reason for everything else in his life since he was born,,,,, HE is quite SMART that way,,,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Mon 06/10/13 01:08 PM
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EDIT: nevermind singmesweet made my point.
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Mon 06/10/13 01:11 PM
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just for the sake of it, what if you found out you were wrong? what if you found out that your son was very hurt by your rejection of such an important part of his life and didn't tell you? what would you do? Id continue to reinforce that I love him by all the other actions that love consists of Id continue to reinforce that I value him as a person and I REFUSE to define him or his value by his sexual lifestyle and Id continue to reinforce that as his mom, its my job to want what is healthy for him, even when he may have a preference for something else,,, that it is BECAUSE I love him that I care enough not to cave in and pretend its ok or healthy ,, BECAUSE Im his mom Im gonna be HONEST with him when I think his decisions are not healthy but he already knows this, it is strongly enforced in my family that love is not about saying I dont care if,,,,,,,,as long as you're "happy" parents who do that just to make kids happy, generally can put a period after the CARE. I do care, thats why I want him to be healthy which his lifestyle is not,,,,he understands that,,,,even if he doesnt agree or would rather me accept it,, he understands the reason for the disapproval is LOVE,,,just like my reason for everything else in his life since he was born,,,,, HE is quite SMART that way,,,,, If you say so........I still am betting there's more he doesn't say but that's just a guess........ and regardless of good intentions love in such a way can still be misguided love and harm. |
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can you be anymore off topic?????
Keep in mind, alleoops is the one that went off topic with talking about homosexuality. Not sure why, but he did bring that to the discussion. lol, probably stirring the pot a bit... |
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can you be anymore off topic?????
Keep in mind, alleoops is the one that went off topic with talking about homosexuality. Not sure why, but he did bring that to the discussion. lol, probably stirring the pot a bit... Well, yes. That's the only reason to bring it up in this thread. |
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Yeh stick to the topic of the alleged "brave" student who said the Lord's prayer in public.
Why was that brave? What could they do to him? He had already graduated. He was "outta there." |
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Yeh stick to the topic of the alleged "brave" student who said the Lord's prayer in public. Why was that brave? What could they do to him? He had already graduated. He was "outta there." not true, they could actually have kept his diploma or whatever other consequences were available for unapproved behavior he went on the fly instead of having his 'approved' speech, which made him brave by taking a risk of doing what was not approved |
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just for the sake of it, what if you found out you were wrong? what if you found out that your son was very hurt by your rejection of such an important part of his life and didn't tell you? what would you do? Id continue to reinforce that I love him by all the other actions that love consists of Id continue to reinforce that I value him as a person and I REFUSE to define him or his value by his sexual lifestyle and Id continue to reinforce that as his mom, its my job to want what is healthy for him, even when he may have a preference for something else,,, that it is BECAUSE I love him that I care enough not to cave in and pretend its ok or healthy ,, BECAUSE Im his mom Im gonna be HONEST with him when I think his decisions are not healthy but he already knows this, it is strongly enforced in my family that love is not about saying I dont care if,,,,,,,,as long as you're "happy" parents who do that just to make kids happy, generally can put a period after the CARE. I do care, thats why I want him to be healthy which his lifestyle is not,,,,he understands that,,,,even if he doesnt agree or would rather me accept it,, he understands the reason for the disapproval is LOVE,,,just like my reason for everything else in his life since he was born,,,,, HE is quite SMART that way,,,,, If you say so........I still am betting there's more he doesn't say but that's just a guess........ and regardless of good intentions love in such a way can still be misguided love and harm. the idea that to be loved means people must approve of whatever makes you happy is misguided,,, |
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