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Topic: Brave Student Prays in Graduation Speech
Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48948	Tue 06/11/13 06:40 PM
it's their day, they should be allowed to come into adulthood without being told what to say... I agree, totally As long as a valedictorian isn't verbally attacking someone in a speech and isn't going over a predetermined time limit, then why not respect the person's freedom of speech?

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Tue 06/11/13 09:03 PM
I just don't see what's so brave about praying. for me, its brave to take a risk for no personal gain in a country , culture, that is more and more villifying religion, trying to subliminally ban it on any public level,,,,its risky to go against the pc grain and stand up to the potential public scrutiny over ones choices (sound familiar?) Religion and praying are definitely personal, though. And by praying in public in front of large groups of people, you're doing so because you choose to do so. It's all about personal choice. so is sex and romance,, in the opinion of many but that doesnt mean that those feelings or expression should have to be exclusively in private,,,, and a culture that encourages the choice for some, should encourage it for all,,,, yes, every action is about personal choice,,, Difference though is......those things are exclusive to the people expressing those emotions/doing those things, religion and praying are not so much in this setting. it isnt exclusive, two people may engage in an action with each other, but in the public setting I have to have my EYES subject to it, ,unless I leave or cover them similarly, if one person ENGAGES in an action with their mouth, in a public setting, others only have to have their EARS subject to it, unless they leave or cover them there is no difference, participation is voluntary,, however you spin it,,, Not at an event like this it isn't......and yes there is a difference, one is personal to the people involved, the other is made effectively public.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 06/12/13 01:05 AM
I just don't see what's so brave about praying. for me, its brave to take a risk for no personal gain in a country , culture, that is more and more villifying religion, trying to subliminally ban it on any public level,,,,its risky to go against the pc grain and stand up to the potential public scrutiny over ones choices (sound familiar?) Religion and praying are definitely personal, though. And by praying in public in front of large groups of people, you're doing so because you choose to do so. It's all about personal choice. so is sex and romance,, in the opinion of many but that doesnt mean that those feelings or expression should have to be exclusively in private,,,, and a culture that encourages the choice for some, should encourage it for all,,,, yes, every action is about personal choice,,, Difference though is......those things are exclusive to the people expressing those emotions/doing those things, religion and praying are not so much in this setting. it isnt exclusive, two people may engage in an action with each other, but in the public setting I have to have my EYES subject to it, ,unless I leave or cover them similarly, if one person ENGAGES in an action with their mouth, in a public setting, others only have to have their EARS subject to it, unless they leave or cover them there is no difference, participation is voluntary,, however you spin it,,, Not at an event like this it isn't......and yes there is a difference, one is personal to the people involved, the other is made effectively public. they are both made public if they are done IN PUBLIC

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 06/12/13 01:06 AM
it's their day, they should be allowed to come into adulthood without being told what to say... I agree, totally As long as a valedictorian isn't verbally attacking someone in a speech and isn't going over a predetermined time limit, then why not respect the person's freedom of speech? bottom line, his speech, his sentiments,,,,with the stated exception of going over time or attacking others,,,

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 06/12/13 03:46 PM
I just don't see what's so brave about praying. for me, its brave to take a risk for no personal gain in a country , culture, that is more and more villifying religion, trying to subliminally ban it on any public level,,,,its risky to go against the pc grain and stand up to the potential public scrutiny over ones choices (sound familiar?) Religion and praying are definitely personal, though. And by praying in public in front of large groups of people, you're doing so because you choose to do so. It's all about personal choice. so is sex and romance,, in the opinion of many but that doesnt mean that those feelings or expression should have to be exclusively in private,,,, and a culture that encourages the choice for some, should encourage it for all,,,, yes, every action is about personal choice,,, Difference though is......those things are exclusive to the people expressing those emotions/doing those things, religion and praying are not so much in this setting. it isnt exclusive, two people may engage in an action with each other, but in the public setting I have to have my EYES subject to it, ,unless I leave or cover them similarly, if one person ENGAGES in an action with their mouth, in a public setting, others only have to have their EARS subject to it, unless they leave or cover them there is no difference, participation is voluntary,, however you spin it,,, isn't there enough gay topics around were this one isn't taken over by this crap? its just an analogy, being used for easier understanding by others it could be simply stated as well that it was the valedictorians choice as it should have been permitted to be , whatever he may have said (outside of attacking others),,,,so long as it was relevant to the moment and the event,,,FOR HIM it's their day, they should be allowed to come into adulthood without being told what to say... I agree, totally If you are so fond of freedom of speech, then fight for it. The government is chipping away at it and many more of your freedoms every day. Even mingle does not allow freedom of speech. Neither does face book as you can get banned for saying certain things. You abide by their rules don't you? Then you should support that people also abide by the rules of the schools on praying in public settings. Either fight for freedom of speech or shut up and abide by the rules against it.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48948	Wed 06/12/13 03:50 PM
If you are so fond of freedom of speech, then fight for it. The government is chipping away at it and many more of your freedoms every day. Even mingle does not allow freedom of speech. Neither does face book as you can get banned for saying certain things. You abide by their rules don't you? Then you should support that people also abide by the rules of the schools on praying in public settings. Either fight for freedom of speech or shut up and abide by the rules against it. Telling people to shut up?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 06/12/13 04:02 PM
If you are so fond of freedom of speech, then fight for it. The government is chipping away at it and many more of your freedoms every day. Even mingle does not allow freedom of speech. Neither does face book as you can get banned for saying certain things. You abide by their rules don't you? Then you should support that people also abide by the rules of the schools on praying in public settings. Either fight for freedom of speech or shut up and abide by the rules against it. Telling people to shut up? I am telling them to stop being hypocrites. If you are going to whine and cry and complain about not having freedom of speech to say what you want and pray to whom ever you want in a pubic gathering, then fight for freedom of speech every where else, not just about praying in public.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48948	Wed 06/12/13 04:26 PM
If you are so fond of freedom of speech, then fight for it. The government is chipping away at it and many more of your freedoms every day. Even mingle does not allow freedom of speech. Neither does face book as you can get banned for saying certain things. You abide by their rules don't you? Then you should support that people also abide by the rules of the schools on praying in public settings. Either fight for freedom of speech or shut up and abide by the rules against it. Telling people to shut up? I am telling them to stop being hypocrites. If you are going to whine and cry and complain about not having freedom of speech to say what you want and pray to whom ever you want in a pubic gathering, then fight for freedom of speech every where else, not just about praying in public. There is a difference between regulating speech on public property (or a public event) and regulating speech on private property (or a private event).

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 06/12/13 05:03 PM
If you are so fond of freedom of speech, then fight for it. The government is chipping away at it and many more of your freedoms every day. Even mingle does not allow freedom of speech. Neither does face book as you can get banned for saying certain things. You abide by their rules don't you? Then you should support that people also abide by the rules of the schools on praying in public settings. Either fight for freedom of speech or shut up and abide by the rules against it. Telling people to shut up? I am telling them to stop being hypocrites. If you are going to whine and cry and complain about not having freedom of speech to say what you want and pray to whom ever you want in a pubic gathering, then fight for freedom of speech every where else, not just about praying in public. There is a difference between regulating speech on public property (or a public event) and regulating speech on private property (or a private event). Yes there is. Prayer should not be conducted at a graduation when clearly there is a rule against it.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48948	Wed 06/12/13 05:05 PM
If you are so fond of freedom of speech, then fight for it. The government is chipping away at it and many more of your freedoms every day. Even mingle does not allow freedom of speech. Neither does face book as you can get banned for saying certain things. You abide by their rules don't you? Then you should support that people also abide by the rules of the schools on praying in public settings. Either fight for freedom of speech or shut up and abide by the rules against it. Telling people to shut up? I am telling them to stop being hypocrites. If you are going to whine and cry and complain about not having freedom of speech to say what you want and pray to whom ever you want in a pubic gathering, then fight for freedom of speech every where else, not just about praying in public. There is a difference between regulating speech on public property (or a public event) and regulating speech on private property (or a private event). Yes there is. Prayer should not be conducted at a graduation when clearly there is a rule against it. Rule? What rule?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 06/12/13 05:06 PM
And although Facebook is very public, they have a right to make rules about what is said and posted there, however if someone sings a rap song that clearly is misinterpreted by the FBI, they should not be arrested as a potential terrorist. That is taking paranoia by the government a little too far.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 06/12/13 05:08 PM
READ THE OP The act, which drew loud applause, was taken in opposition to the School District of Pickens County's decision to axe prayers from graduation events,

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48948	Wed 06/12/13 05:09 PM
And although Facebook is very public, they have a right to make rules about what is said and posted there, however if someone sings a rap song that clearly is misinterpreted by the FBI, they should not be arrested as a potential terrorist. That is taking paranoia by the government a little too far. If private citizens can be that paranoid, then why can't the government be that paranoid?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 06/12/13 05:10 PM
And although Facebook is very public, they have a right to make rules about what is said and posted there, however if someone sings a rap song that clearly is misinterpreted by the FBI, they should not be arrested as a potential terrorist. That is taking paranoia by the government a little too far. If private citizens can be that paranoid, then why can't the government be that paranoid? They can, but they can't act on it and make false arrests without cause.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48948	Wed 06/12/13 05:11 PM
READ THE OP The act, which drew loud applause, was taken in opposition to the School District of Pickens County's decision to axe prayers from graduation events, From the OP: "Officials said that they had recently received complaints from atheist activists and church-state separatists, leading to the removal of invocations from all school events." Since the valedictorian didn't give a planned invocation, no rule was broken.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 06/12/13 05:14 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 06/12/13 05:14 PM
READ THE OP The act, which drew loud applause, was taken in opposition to the School District of Pickens County's decision to axe prayers from graduation events, From the OP: "Officials said that they had recently received complaints from atheist activists and church-state separatists, leading to the removal of invocations from all school events." Since the valedictorian didn't give a planned invocation, no rule was broken. Good point. So there was nothing special or brave at all about what he did. Its a non issue.

Dodo_David Joined Fri 08/13/10 Posts: 48948	Wed 06/12/13 05:20 PM
Good point.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 06/12/13 05:43 PM
I just don't see what's so brave about praying. for me, its brave to take a risk for no personal gain in a country , culture, that is more and more villifying religion, trying to subliminally ban it on any public level,,,,its risky to go against the pc grain and stand up to the potential public scrutiny over ones choices (sound familiar?) Religion and praying are definitely personal, though. And by praying in public in front of large groups of people, you're doing so because you choose to do so. It's all about personal choice. so is sex and romance,, in the opinion of many but that doesnt mean that those feelings or expression should have to be exclusively in private,,,, and a culture that encourages the choice for some, should encourage it for all,,,, yes, every action is about personal choice,,, Difference though is......those things are exclusive to the people expressing those emotions/doing those things, religion and praying are not so much in this setting. it isnt exclusive, two people may engage in an action with each other, but in the public setting I have to have my EYES subject to it, ,unless I leave or cover them similarly, if one person ENGAGES in an action with their mouth, in a public setting, others only have to have their EARS subject to it, unless they leave or cover them there is no difference, participation is voluntary,, however you spin it,,, isn't there enough gay topics around were this one isn't taken over by this crap? its just an analogy, being used for easier understanding by others it could be simply stated as well that it was the valedictorians choice as it should have been permitted to be , whatever he may have said (outside of attacking others),,,,so long as it was relevant to the moment and the event,,,FOR HIM it's their day, they should be allowed to come into adulthood without being told what to say... I agree, totally If you are so fond of freedom of speech, then fight for it. The government is chipping away at it and many more of your freedoms every day. Even mingle does not allow freedom of speech. Neither does face book as you can get banned for saying certain things. You abide by their rules don't you? Then you should support that people also abide by the rules of the schools on praying in public settings. Either fight for freedom of speech or shut up and abide by the rules against it. I am speaking about PUBLIC freedoms. once we are in someone elses home, on someone elses property, or using a resource provided for and maintained by someone else, they have the absolute privilege of dictating their own terms,,, with no objection from me and I do support people abide by rules when and if they are applied equally, but I also support those people who are BRAVE enough to break rules that are unreasonable and ACCEPT The potential consequences,,,, even now, I can express my feelings, but i am on a website that others created and maintain, so my 'FREEDOM' stops with their RESPONSIBILTIY and LIABILITY ,,,different scenarios freedom of speech does not mean everyone everywhere has to permit us to say whatever we want,, and offend (by offend i dont just mean say something someone else doesnt agree with,, i mean say something that ATTACKS someone else)whomever we want,,,,,there is no absolute rule that has no reasonable expectation of exception,,,, media has sponsors ,by whom they are able to pay their bills, and those sponsors interests are logically going to be taken into sonsideration,, AS THEY SHOULD, being paying customers so media having individual guidelines and rules about what they air isnt about a FREEDOM OF SPEECH, its about this is what we are willing to offer and the conditions upon which we will offer it,,,

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 06/12/13 06:49 PM
AS Dodo_David pointed out: Since the valedictorian didn't give a planned invocation, no rule was broken. So the fact that this guy chose to trash his speech and recite a prayer did not break any rules and there is nothing really special (or brave) about what he did. It's a non-subject.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 06/12/13 11:42 PM
AS Dodo_David pointed out: Since the valedictorian didn't give a planned invocation, no rule was broken. So the fact that this guy chose to trash his speech and recite a prayer did not break any rules and there is nothing really special (or brave) about what he did. It's a non-subject. its as brave as anyone 'coming out' about their sexuality, it takes bravery to risk the ridicule and controversy,,,