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| Topic: (((((Shooting at Connecticut elementary school))))) | |
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Jobs created. Barry wins. Id think with age should come wisdom. Yes. And one day Radical, Loony leftists may realize and be gifted a little wisdom. Barry and his buds are already priming the pump. That's reality. Facts show, in areas where concealed or open carry is law, gun crime is lower. 'facts' show correlations figures can be manipulated towards any end let me give an example top ten gun death rates by state 10. tennessee (15/100000) tied with 9. NM 8. Arkansas 7. AZ 6. NV (16.1) 5. AL (17.5) 4. Alaska (17.6) 3. Mississippi (18.3) 2. Louisiana (20.2) 1. D.C (24.5) http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-204_162-10010004-21.html top 10 states gun ownership rates 10.ND 50.7 % 9. AL 51.7% 8. Arkansas 55.3% 7. Idaho 55.3 6. Mississipi 55.3 5. WV 55.4% 4. SD 56.6% 3. Montana 57.7% 2. Alaska 57.8% 1. Wyoming 59.7 % lowest gun ownership rates •40. Delaware - 25.5% •41. Florida - 24.5% (Battleground state. See Florida in 2012 Elections.) •42. California - 21.3% •42. Maryland - 21.3% •44. Illinois - 20.2% •45. New York - 18% •46. Connecticut - 16.7% •47. Rhode Island - 12.8% •48. Massachusetts - 12.6% •49. New Jersey - 12.3% •50. Hawaii - 6.7% http://usliberals.about.com/od/Election2012Factors/a/Gun-Owners-As-Percentage-Of-Each-States-Population.htm by my count a full FOUR of the states with highest gun ownership are also the states with highest gun deaths and NONE Of those with low ownership make that list possibly showing a correlation between number of gun owners and gun deaths and a cause for gun opponents just like gun proponents try to imply a causal relation between right to carry and gun deaths.... Taking the stats you provided on the ten highest and ten lowest gun ownership states, I ranked them in terms of the amount of gun crime (larger number means lower gun crime) and the % homicide victims by state (% by gun as opposed to other weapons…national average is 61%). The results proved interesting. To make a long statistical story short, while one might expect the ten highest gun ownership states to have a mean rank of about 5 or 6, they had a mean rank of 31.1 (i.e. they averaged 31st position out of 50 in terms of gun crime. Of crime victims by weapon, they averaged 53.19% by gun (well below the 61% national average). Taking the ten states with lowest percentage of gun ownership, the mean rank was 23.5 (in the upper half of the rankings and nowhere near the mid 40s as you might expect) and victims by gun (which you might expect to be much lower percentage-wise owing to fewer weapons per capita) averaged to 62.95%, which was higher than the high gun ownership states by about 11% and even higher than the national average of 61%. It appears then, that the gun is the killer's weapon of choice when most other people don't have guns. To make the short story even shorter, the numbers suggest that high ownership states have lower per capita gun crime and a smaller percentage of gun victims than states with low ownership states. I note that Connecticut had one of the lowest gun death rates in the country. I dare say that statistic is now slated to climb in light of recent tragic events. Apparently fewer guns don't appear to translate into public safety no matter how the numbers are crunched. The use of gun deaths as a statistic can be very misleading, as many gun deaths are the result of accidents resulting from poor education & trainin (it should be mandated that every student & gun owner in the country should have to pass a competency & firearms safety training course before being able to purchase their first gun) lawful homicide by police in the line of duty stopping criminals, and also suicides, where people find guns to be quick & convenient, however taking the suicidal person's gun way will probably not prevent his suicide by other means, so adding in gun suicides & lawful homicide skews the numbers and makes guns look like the bad guy. The more important numbers IMO are per capita victims of homicide/wounding by gun, which is more accurately reflected in gun crime. I included the erroneous stat of deaths by gun only to show how drastically it differs from the actual unlawful homicide stats, however, some facts can even be gleaned from these statistics. For one thing, the mean ranks would be expected to fall in the midrange of the actual ranking mean. In both cases they don't. In high gun ownership states, the mean rank is 15.3, well outside the top ten and nowhere near the expected 5 or 6. While in the lower gun ownership states, the mean rank is 41; it just squeezes in to the bottom ten rankings and still sits quite a ways from the expected number of 45-46. This suggests that even with all gun deaths taken into account, the numbers at the extremes tend to gravitate away from their place within the extremes in the direction of the other extreme. Obviously then, there is a problem in establishing a meaningful correlation of gun numbers to gun deaths there are mitigating variables at work. It will probably lose all the formatting when posted, but for what its worth, here are the numbers: ownership gun crime rank (of 50) victims by gun (%) gun deaths/100k rank & number • 1. Wyoming - 59.7% 48th 40.0 4th ( 18.8) • 2. Alaska - 57.8% 45 52.9 2 (20) • 3. Montana - 57.7% 7 50.0 13 (14.5) • 4. South Dakota - 56.6% 46 33.3 41 (7.9) • 5. West Virginia - 55.4% 40 68.4 12 (14.7) • 6. Mississippi - 55.3% 9 63.6 6 (17.3) • 6. Idaho - 55.3% 34 50.0 19 (12.3) • 6. Arkansas - 55.3% 23 75.2 9 (16.3) • 9. Alabama - 51.7% 18 65.2 10 (16.2) • 10. North Dakota - 50.7% 41 33.3 37 (9.1) __ ___ __ 31.1 53.19 15.3 (14.71) • 40. Delaware - 25.5% 1st 80 37 (9.1) • 41. Florida - 24.5% n/a • 42. California - 21.3% 8 72.6 30 (6.7) • 42. Maryland - 21.3% 18 67.6 22 (11.5) • 44. Illinois - 20.2% 6 74.2 31 (9.7) • 45. New York - 18% 32 59.3 46 (5.1) • 46. Connecticut - 16.7% 31 60.5 49 (4.3) • 47. Rhode Island - 12.8% 24 63.4 46 (5.1) • 48. Massachusetts - 12.6% 43 47.4 50 (3.1) • 49. New Jersey - 12.3% 28 61.0 48 (4.9) • 50. Hawaii - 6.7% 44 43.5 51 (2.8) • __ ___ __ • 23.5 62.95 41 (7.17) I pulled the extra stats off of this site, which seems pretty comprehensive and allows statistical selection by a number of criteria: http://www.statemaster.com/red/graph/cri_hom_vic_by_wea_gun-crime-homicide-victims-weapon-gun&b_map=1 Here's another story showing how Connecticut's strict gun control laws did NOTHING to protect thse little kids and in fact probably contributed to the massacre by ensuring that a killer would not meet with armed resistance. http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2012/12/15/connecticuts-strict-gun-control-laws-did-not-stop-the-school-shootings-in-newtown/ and here's one pointing to medication as a possible factor in the shooting: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/adam-lanza-is-recalled-as-a-rambunctious-kid-with-family-problems/2012/12/14/795ad0fe-4641-11e2-8e70-e1993528222d_story.html and unfortunately, while those poor innocent bodies are still warm, the gun control freaks are already snapping into action.: http://theintelhub.com/2012/12/15/gun-control-petition-to-white-house-gets-large-and-immediate-support-online/ Could there be a hidden agenda to capitalize on this tragedy?: http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2012/12/15/government-calling-for-gun-control-with-fake-social-media-accounts/ It strikes me that PROPER legislation to deal with mass shootings like this would be to repeal the act mandating schools as "gun free zones", severely restricting the use of SSRI's and making the local city ordinance of Kennesaw, Ga a federal law, that mandates every capable and competent householder to own and learn proper use & safety & carry of firearms. Kennesaw is a model of what the average citizen can do to bring safety, peace, law, and order to his community. Imagine if your whole country was like that! Just think what 300 million peace officers could do. For one thing…mass shootings would be a thing of the past. the numbers arent explained well as to the 'mean' here is where it may not be as 'meaningful' as it appears Mean is not a robust statistic tool since it cannot be applied to all distributions but is easily the most widely used statistic tool to derive the central tendency. The reason that mean cannot be applied to all distributions is because it gets unduly impacted by values in the sample that are too small to too large. http://www.diffen.com/difference/Mean_vs_Median#Definitions_of_mean_and_median point is,, as reflected here numbers can be interpreted in multiple ways to prove different points I still stick to the basic and simple numbers I reflected,, showing that NONE of the states with low gun ownership make the top ten list of states with gun deaths (which would include accidental AND intentional) as long as we are comparing the same standard, and in my example I reviewed gun deaths period,, whether intentional or not my view of gun ownership doesnt change if its my loved one, I dont much care if it was an accident or on purpose |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 12/15/12 07:06 PM
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Jobs created. Barry wins. Id think with age should come wisdom. Yes. And one day Radical, Loony leftists may realize and be gifted a little wisdom. Barry and his buds are already priming the pump. That's reality. Facts show, in areas where concealed or open carry is law, gun crime is lower. 'facts' show correlations figures can be manipulated towards any end let me give an example top ten gun death rates by state 10. tennessee (15/100000) tied with 9. NM 8. Arkansas 7. AZ 6. NV (16.1) 5. AL (17.5) 4. Alaska (17.6) 3. Mississippi (18.3) 2. Louisiana (20.2) 1. D.C (24.5) http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-204_162-10010004-21.html top 10 states gun ownership rates 10.ND 50.7 % 9. AL 51.7% 8. Arkansas 55.3% 7. Idaho 55.3 6. Mississipi 55.3 5. WV 55.4% 4. SD 56.6% 3. Montana 57.7% 2. Alaska 57.8% 1. Wyoming 59.7 % lowest gun ownership rates •40. Delaware - 25.5% •41. Florida - 24.5% (Battleground state. See Florida in 2012 Elections.) •42. California - 21.3% •42. Maryland - 21.3% •44. Illinois - 20.2% •45. New York - 18% •46. Connecticut - 16.7% •47. Rhode Island - 12.8% •48. Massachusetts - 12.6% •49. New Jersey - 12.3% •50. Hawaii - 6.7% http://usliberals.about.com/od/Election2012Factors/a/Gun-Owners-As-Percentage-Of-Each-States-Population.htm by my count a full FOUR of the states with highest gun ownership are also the states with highest gun deaths and NONE Of those with low ownership make that list possibly showing a correlation between number of gun owners and gun deaths and a cause for gun opponents just like gun proponents try to imply a causal relation between right to carry and gun deaths.... Taking the stats you provided on the ten highest and ten lowest gun ownership states, I ranked them in terms of the amount of gun crime (larger number means lower gun crime) and the % homicide victims by state (% by gun as opposed to other weapons…national average is 61%). The results proved interesting. To make a long statistical story short, while one might expect the ten highest gun ownership states to have a mean rank of about 5 or 6, they had a mean rank of 31.1 (i.e. they averaged 31st position out of 50 in terms of gun crime. Of crime victims by weapon, they averaged 53.19% by gun (well below the 61% national average). Taking the ten states with lowest percentage of gun ownership, the mean rank was 23.5 (in the upper half of the rankings and nowhere near the mid 40s as you might expect) and victims by gun (which you might expect to be much lower percentage-wise owing to fewer weapons per capita) averaged to 62.95%, which was higher than the high gun ownership states by about 11% and even higher than the national average of 61%. It appears then, that the gun is the killer's weapon of choice when most other people don't have guns. To make the short story even shorter, the numbers suggest that high ownership states have lower per capita gun crime and a smaller percentage of gun victims than states with low ownership states. I note that Connecticut had one of the lowest gun death rates in the country. I dare say that statistic is now slated to climb in light of recent tragic events. Apparently fewer guns don't appear to translate into public safety no matter how the numbers are crunched. The use of gun deaths as a statistic can be very misleading, as many gun deaths are the result of accidents resulting from poor education & trainin (it should be mandated that every student & gun owner in the country should have to pass a competency & firearms safety training course before being able to purchase their first gun) lawful homicide by police in the line of duty stopping criminals, and also suicides, where people find guns to be quick & convenient, however taking the suicidal person's gun way will probably not prevent his suicide by other means, so adding in gun suicides & lawful homicide skews the numbers and makes guns look like the bad guy. The more important numbers IMO are per capita victims of homicide/wounding by gun, which is more accurately reflected in gun crime. I included the erroneous stat of deaths by gun only to show how drastically it differs from the actual unlawful homicide stats, however, some facts can even be gleaned from these statistics. For one thing, the mean ranks would be expected to fall in the midrange of the actual ranking mean. In both cases they don't. In high gun ownership states, the mean rank is 15.3, well outside the top ten and nowhere near the expected 5 or 6. While in the lower gun ownership states, the mean rank is 41; it just squeezes in to the bottom ten rankings and still sits quite a ways from the expected number of 45-46. This suggests that even with all gun deaths taken into account, the numbers at the extremes tend to gravitate away from their place within the extremes in the direction of the other extreme. Obviously then, there is a problem in establishing a meaningful correlation of gun numbers to gun deaths there are mitigating variables at work. It will probably lose all the formatting when posted, but for what its worth, here are the numbers: ownership gun crime rank (of 50) victims by gun (%) gun deaths/100k rank & number • 1. Wyoming - 59.7% 48th 40.0 4th ( 18.8) • 2. Alaska - 57.8% 45 52.9 2 (20) • 3. Montana - 57.7% 7 50.0 13 (14.5) • 4. South Dakota - 56.6% 46 33.3 41 (7.9) • 5. West Virginia - 55.4% 40 68.4 12 (14.7) • 6. Mississippi - 55.3% 9 63.6 6 (17.3) • 6. Idaho - 55.3% 34 50.0 19 (12.3) • 6. Arkansas - 55.3% 23 75.2 9 (16.3) • 9. Alabama - 51.7% 18 65.2 10 (16.2) • 10. North Dakota - 50.7% 41 33.3 37 (9.1) __ ___ __ 31.1 53.19 15.3 (14.71) • 40. Delaware - 25.5% 1st 80 37 (9.1) • 41. Florida - 24.5% n/a • 42. California - 21.3% 8 72.6 30 (6.7) • 42. Maryland - 21.3% 18 67.6 22 (11.5) • 44. Illinois - 20.2% 6 74.2 31 (9.7) • 45. New York - 18% 32 59.3 46 (5.1) • 46. Connecticut - 16.7% 31 60.5 49 (4.3) • 47. Rhode Island - 12.8% 24 63.4 46 (5.1) • 48. Massachusetts - 12.6% 43 47.4 50 (3.1) • 49. New Jersey - 12.3% 28 61.0 48 (4.9) • 50. Hawaii - 6.7% 44 43.5 51 (2.8) • __ ___ __ • 23.5 62.95 41 (7.17) I pulled the extra stats off of this site, which seems pretty comprehensive and allows statistical selection by a number of criteria: http://www.statemaster.com/red/graph/cri_hom_vic_by_wea_gun-crime-homicide-victims-weapon-gun&b_map=1 Here's another story showing how Connecticut's strict gun control laws did NOTHING to protect thse little kids and in fact probably contributed to the massacre by ensuring that a killer would not meet with armed resistance. http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2012/12/15/connecticuts-strict-gun-control-laws-did-not-stop-the-school-shootings-in-newtown/ and here's one pointing to medication as a possible factor in the shooting: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/adam-lanza-is-recalled-as-a-rambunctious-kid-with-family-problems/2012/12/14/795ad0fe-4641-11e2-8e70-e1993528222d_story.html and unfortunately, while those poor innocent bodies are still warm, the gun control freaks are already snapping into action.: http://theintelhub.com/2012/12/15/gun-control-petition-to-white-house-gets-large-and-immediate-support-online/ Could there be a hidden agenda to capitalize on this tragedy?: http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2012/12/15/government-calling-for-gun-control-with-fake-social-media-accounts/ It strikes me that PROPER legislation to deal with mass shootings like this would be to repeal the act mandating schools as "gun free zones", severely restricting the use of SSRI's and making the local city ordinance of Kennesaw, Ga a federal law, that mandates every capable and competent householder to own and learn proper use & safety & carry of firearms. Kennesaw is a model of what the average citizen can do to bring safety, peace, law, and order to his community. Imagine if your whole country was like that! Just think what 300 million peace officers could do. For one thing…mass shootings would be a thing of the past. the numbers arent explained well as to the 'mean' here is where it may not be as 'meaningful' as it appears Mean is not a robust statistic tool since it cannot be applied to all distributions but is easily the most widely used statistic tool to derive the central tendency. The reason that mean cannot be applied to all distributions is because it gets unduly impacted by values in the sample that are too small to too large. http://www.diffen.com/difference/Mean_vs_Median#Definitions_of_mean_and_median point is,, as reflected here numbers can be interpreted in multiple ways to prove different points I still stick to the basic and simple numbers I reflected,, showing that NONE of the states with low gun ownership make the top ten list of states with gun deaths (which would include accidental AND intentional) as long as we are comparing the same standard, and in my example I reviewed gun deaths period,, whether intentional or not my view of gun ownership doesnt change if its my loved one, I dont much care if it was an accident or on purpose I dont want people to not be able to be 'armed' I do want there to be reasonable regulations about what constitutes civilian 'arms' |
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Healing can come in part from inspired music. Here's a song from Edward Sharpe and the magnetic zeros called 'Man on Fire'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qghPyUm_MSI |
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This isn't the thread to be going into the validity of statistical analysis techniques. MOst peole don't understand them anyway, preferring to look at them in terms of Sam Clemens' comment that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
I quite agree that my little analysis probably wasn't as clear as I would have liked, even less so owing to the loss of formatting in their exposition. I think though, that you kinda sold it short in implying that perhaps use of the mean for the stats I quoted might not have been the most appropriate for the purpose. In point of fact, in terms of the three "middles" of distributions, the mean was the best indicator in this case, as for such small unskewed samples, the median or mode would not be a proper indicator. A simple mean is not only the best descriptor in this case, it is also more easily understood by those not versed in statistics. You people in the US don't know how lucky you are to be able to carry pistols around with you. It is a sacred right based in your constitution. It protects you and your fellow citizens against criminals. The right to keep and bear arms is your defence against not only common killers & crooks, but against tyranny itself. That is why the second amendment was put there…don't ever lose it, because if you do, you and your children will never again know freedom. To drive the point home that an armed citizen might be all that stands between life and death at the hands of a maniac, I present these two videos. I don't much like Glenn Beck, but in this case, in a video he made a few years ago, I think he had a very good point. http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1208027717919&ref=nf It's most unfortunate he and his gun couldn't have been at this theatre on July 20: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/07/midnight_movie_massacre_colora.html Of course, if he had been, he couldn't have gone in armed because the theatre was a "gun free zone." In fact there is a lot of evidence that the killer chose that theatre for that very reason, as I am told he bypassed bigger & closer theatres showing the same film, but they weren't gun free zones. Like all of you, I am beset with grief at the needless deaths of those innocent little kids. I am also filled with anger because I see it happening as a result of stupid legislation that takes the protection away from people who need it and favours the mindless/heartless killers. I'm in another country and can't lobby your legislators for sane legislation that can prevent these tragedies from happening again. I'm afraid that duty falls upon you...so keep a clear head and really think. Know that criminals will always have guns and will always use them on innocent, defenceless people. Don't let them pass laws that will only make you more defenceless; make them pass laws that will allow you to protect yourself, your family and your neighbours if the need should ever arise. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 12/15/12 11:39 PM
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I agree. People should be able to 'protect' themself. Whether that requires a shotgun like those used when the second amendment was passed, which required some effort and could hardly result in the multitudes of death in minutes that todays weapons can
or whether it requires a gun that can fire off dozens of rounds in less than half a minute or a missile launcher or a homemade bomb ,, leaves a little bit of room for some common sense and regulation whatever means and medians aside places where there are less guns have less gun violence (Accidental or intentional) and perhaps their low numbers or the high numbers of those with high ownership,, could be reasonably expected to skew those 'means' and medians,,, |
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Wrong on so many levels, MH.
We need to be at least as well armed as radicals like yer bud Shabitch. Bring a shotgun to an uzi fight is like an ant climbing up the leg of an elephant with rape on his mind. Stupid Liberal legislation only serves to give greater firepower to the criminal. |
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The nra telling people that more guns equal more protection so they can SELL MORE GUNS is expected.
PEOPLE SHOULD BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER. We have been a gun crazy nation since people misinterpreted the 2nd ammendment to mean that everyone should be able to own a gun. Forgetting the well regulated and militia part of course. We lose far too many innocents each year to lunatic gun owners than ever EVER saves a life. That is just the fact. And having a gun doesn't make you better protected that is also a fact. The only thing having a gun does is feed the fear you harbor in your mind that says it makes you more powerful to have one. Which is actually mental illness running rampant. |
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And the only way a gun or a million guns will stop the government from coming to get you is if you blow your own stupid head off with one of them before they get to you.....
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Misinformed much.
The NRA doesn't SELL guns or ammo. |
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Are you talking to ME? Even though you aren't suppose to.....
Ok, I guess you need to do your homework but I will help you out here. Who funds the NRA? Not the anti gun folks...right? How much you want to bet (which it is a sucker bet) that they are funded almost purely by the gun manufacturers and sellers???? IMAGINE THAT CRAZY HUH? WHY WOULD THEY SUPPORT THE NRA? Who woulda thunk it? 
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The nra telling people that more guns equal more protection so they can SELL MORE GUNS is expected. PEOPLE SHOULD BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER. We have been a gun crazy nation since people misinterpreted the 2nd ammendment to mean that everyone should be able to own a gun. Forgetting the well regulated and militia part of course. We lose far too many innocents each year to lunatic gun owners than ever EVER saves a life. That is just the fact. And having a gun doesn't make you better protected that is also a fact. The only thing having a gun does is feed the fear you harbor in your mind that says it makes you more powerful to have one. Which is actually mental illness running rampant. |
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Are you talking to ME? Even though you aren't suppose to..... Ok, I guess you need to do your homework but I will help you out here. Who funds the NRA? Not the anti gun folks...right? How much you want to bet (which it is a sucker bet) that they are funded almost purely by the gun manufacturers and sellers???? IMAGINE THAT CRAZY HUH? WHY WOULD THEY SUPPORT THE NRA? Who woulda thunk it?
The NRA is funded by individual citizens who want their gun rights protected. |
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DC has had the strongest anti-gun laws in the US.
DC has had the highest murder rate in the US. |
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A real gun law would require all "Fit" returning soldiers from the military to maintain their service weapon in good condition and keep a minimum amount of ammunition for it handy. In addition, they would be required to carry a concealed weapon at all times unless unable or unwilling to do so. The US would then have millions of armed citizens ready at all times to protect the public from all threats and would fulfill the EXACT wording of the constitution of having a "well regulated militia".
You would then see the biggest drop in crime by criminals who were only able to act by being the only ones with guns. |
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Are you talking to ME? Even though you aren't suppose to..... Ok, I guess you need to do your homework but I will help you out here. Who funds the NRA? Not the anti gun folks...right? How much you want to bet (which it is a sucker bet) that they are funded almost purely by the gun manufacturers and sellers???? IMAGINE THAT CRAZY HUH? WHY WOULD THEY SUPPORT THE NRA? Who woulda thunk it?
The NRA is funded by individual citizens who want their gun rights protected. Not true |
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Let's face it trying to talk some sense into these 'rootin, tootin' americans is a lost cause. The so called land of the free... What a joke
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DC has had the strongest anti-gun laws in the US. DC has had the highest murder rate in the US. Not true either. |
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A real gun law would require all "Fit" returning soldiers from the military to maintain their service weapon in good condition and keep a minimum amount of ammunition for it handy. In addition, they would be required to carry a concealed weapon at all times unless unable or unwilling to do so. The US would then have millions of armed citizens ready at all times to protect the public from all threats and would fulfill the EXACT wording of the constitution of having a "well regulated militia". You would then see the biggest drop in crime by criminals who were only able to act by being the only ones with guns. Not true either.... 
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Edited by
willowdraga
on
Sun 12/16/12 10:31 AM
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Let's face it trying to talk some sense into these 'rootin, tootin' americans is a lost cause. The so called land of the free... What a joke The accepted taught mental unwellness that pushes this gun issue is a bane to this country. Just make sure you tell your loved ones you love them every chance you get because there is no place safe from the gun crazies. |
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I in no way condone what this guy has done. And it is obvious he had issues but to blame mental illness is like saying everybody who has a mental illness are madmen. This is the problem and the stigma wich surrounds mental illness. 1 in 4 people will experience mental illness during the course of their lives. I myself am bipolar and I'm not ashamed. I work with people experiencing mental illness and they are all nice, decent people.
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