I also have to add though you men want to provide for us ladies; it isn't always feasible in this changing economic time. With the recession and lost jobs; how can one provide for the other? Sometimes, you men have to rely on the ladies to carry you through until you can find work. I don't think any woman that has any respect for her partner would look down on a man that couldn't provide for her.

For me.. it is more about the mood I am in at that current moment.

Thanks Greeneyes. I think you and I look at this whole situation more on a logical way rather than emotional. I mentioned before that we step out of the box and its rare to meet men that are capable of doing that. I think a man is strongest when he can accept an equal relationship rather than trying to be dominant because he so insecure. I think people can grow more together if they both have an equal say. I think my biggest fear is that if a man has always made the decisions; what happens when he leaves or dies? What do I do now when I haven't made any decisions throughout my whole life. To me; its all about growth in a relationship and how can you do that if you aren't allowed to make an decisions or even take part on making an equal decision?

Okay, I thought about it.

I don't mind being led, or lead, whichever way it's spelled, but I will never tolerate being controlled.

If she tries to control me, I push her to the window and throw her out. No questions asked, and I wash my hands.

If she wants to lead me, fine. You see, the leaders can be followed or not. It is the choice of the led (or lead). If a led person wants to follow the lead, he does. If he doesn't want to follow, then the leader can lead all that she wants, but the follower won't fallow her.

So... the leader-fallower relationship is voluntary. The control-controlled relationship is involuntary. I class sub/dom rels into this latter, control category. Whether the sub/dom/control is sexual or not sexual or both or neither.

To the fish with that.

Yes but if the sub has no skills then it truly is abusive on the part of the dom. I've always thought that if she had to depend on me as opposed to choosing to do so, then if I would die, how would my children be cared for? Both parties need to be confident, knowledgeable, and able to "go it alone" but freely choose to stay married.

Film: Scene 256:

Man: Jane, I'm going to get around the bad characters, and check them from behind. You stay here. (Editor's note: see how he controls. "You stay here." She ain't his dog, she does what she wants.)

Woman: No, Jack, I want to come with you. (Woman pleades and starts to negotiate; sign of call for equality).

Man: No. Just stay here. I'll be back. (Ibid.)

Woman: Okay. (giving in to control.)

Scenes 257 to 292 (play out, no significance to the question at hand).

Scene 292 to 213, summary: woman did not stay there, she went out of the spot, into another spot, where she could shoot the person who was just about going to finish off Man for sure. Happy end, every good person survives, all bad people perish.

---------------------

Reality Version one:

Man: Jane, you stay here. (Notice dominance.)

Woman: Okay, Jack. (Notice acceptance of submissive role.)

Eventuality: their enemies first finish off Man, then finish off Woman.

---------------------

Reality Version two:

Man: Jane, you stay here.

Woman: No. Please stop trying to push me around.

Man: What do you mean, "push you around". We are in a life-and-death situation.

Woman: I know. I am not convinced that your plan will work. You havn't even told me your plan. Why do you think I'll stay here just because you ordered me to?

Man: Quiet, for chrissakes. We are in enemy territory. So please stay quiet, stay here, and I come back later to pick you up.

Woman: Typical, Jack, typical. You think I can do nothing to save us, can't contribute, you want to come back and screw me (pick me up). You won't have that, no sir.

Man: JANE!! I am telling you. If they find us, they kill us both.

Woman: That's exactly what I am trying to tell you, you AZZOLE!! WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN I AT DEFENDING THE TWO OF US? YOU DON'T KNOW DIC% S&IT, YOU JUST WANT TO GO AHEAD WITH THIS, (even louder) because you are a blockhead!!

Man: YOU SHUT UP, YOU BRAZEN HUSSIE!! YOU'LL GET US BOTH KILLED!

Woman: And you? You, Mr. Saviour? You don't even know how many there are, what their weapnos are, how well trained they are in close-range firepower combat, you are a COMPLETE NINCOMPOOP!! I wish you will get killed, you egotistical narcissistic boron!! Or moron, I am sorry. I meant to say moron.

Man: Might as well, because I don't ever want to see you again or talk to yo...

(Might as well, as both are blown to pieces or shot into sieves by enemy fire, since enemy had a child's play locating them and surrounding them surreptitiously, going by their argumentative and loud voices alone.)

I'm submissive to women

navygirl...I guess I do tend to be pretty logical about all of it..Marriage is a partnership. I don't view it as playing an assigned role in a movie. (Where everyone is suppose to recite their "lines" and stick to "character!")...I consider myself fortunate because my parents had an "equal marriage" way back in the 50's. And my parents hung-out with other couples who gave each other "freedom." (Versus being stuck in gender-based roles.)...My Mom didn't have to act like a "girly-girl" or be "submissive" to men. My Dad didn't have to play "Tarzan" or "prince charming."...They both felt free to speak their minds and pulled together when decisions had to be made...My Dad cooked and cleaned and did laundry etc. He was self-sufficient and able to take care of himself "just fine" when my Mom passed away....My Mom and I helped my Dad repair our family cars. We mowed the lawn and did plumbing work when need be...There was a sense that every "job" and every problem that came-up "belonged" to all of us. And we pulled together to get "jobs done" and find solutions to our "family problems" as a "team."

Why is it that the way you view a relationship as "equal" is the best and most true for everyone.

I know quite a few women that don't want to have an equal standing in their relationship with their husband. And when he takes control and runs everything from top to bottom, they are both very happy.

Then again, I know a few women that control every aspect of their marriage and all day to day activities as well as decisions. Again, both parties of those marriages are very happy with the way their lives are.

I write this to open the eyes of a lot of people here. To teach them that there are all kinds of relationships and and how people fit into them. Please respect others choices and how they choose to live their life.

dominant ,something in between

willowdraga...How would you define being treated like a lady? Just curious...I rarely define myself by my gender per se...So I don't really have a specific definition about what it means to be treated like a lady...To me it's about treating others with respect. (My spouse included and even my kids!)...I wait and open doors for the people behind me when I go in and out of stores..If I go out to lunch with someone and I'm driving I open the door for my passenger first. (Before I just jump into the driver's seat.)...If I promise to do something for someone I make sure that I follow through on my promises...It's about "common courtesy" to me and showing respect and consideration for others. None of it is gender-based for me. How do you feel about it?

This is a discussion of different "styles." Everyone has their preferences and their reasons for choosing one "style" over another one..And when all is said and done all that matters is how "happy" we are with our mate and in our marriage...I think it's VIP to find a compatible mate. What "works" for us may not "work" very well for someone else.

No one is telling anyone here how to live their relationship and we are not showing and disrespect for other's opinions; its what works for us as individuals. We are just giving our opinion; after all isn't that what these forums are for open discussion. I am not here to change anyone's mind about this; I just couldn't live that way. To me; it would be degrading to be submissive but that is just my opinion. Some like it; some of us don't. Please don't make a big deal of those of us who don't agree with you.

Yes; you said the magical word RESPECT. That to me is being treated like a lady.

Navygirl.

I don't choose to argue, and I'm very sorry if it came out that way.

My main goal was to educate about different lifestyles.

No worries; all is good. We all are offering a different perspective about what works for us and we aren't always going to agree with each other. I think that is what keeps life interesting.

Is this topic about things like the time I had a date and she said she was gonna slip into "something more comfortable" and came out in a Russian Border Guard uniform with a copy of the Times and told me to beat her with it? Or like how the women at work say I am too easy going and love it when "my daddy voice" comes out?

You know I consider myself a pretty average guy and yet I don't understand why my experiences seem to crack people up. I think its because I am willing to admit and talk about them, when others hide it.