If I want to be in charge or have something to follow me; I will get a dog. Don't believe in treating a human being like that.

And that is why your marriage lasted and was happy.

Thanks..Life can get boring when we're "penned-in" and stuck with "same old, same old" day after day. (In regards to the roles we're expected to play.) Don't you think?....As you mentioned in the other thread "set roles" (with little variance) can lead to divorces or affairs down the road. (Due to boredom and lack of growth and new challenges and "surprises" etc.)

Exactly. When you think about doing the same things day in and day out; it would be boring. So, the same could be said about relationships. Its easy to get in a rut and even worse to be taken for granted by your partner. Its funny how people don't see it until the relationship has ended and even then someone of them still don't get it.

navygirl...Since my husband and I took turns cooking and washing and mowing the lawn (etc.) we said "thank you" to each other for every "job" we did! Nothing was taken for granted!...Nothing was "assumed" or "expected" or "routine" or "run-of-the-mill" etc...It was nice! It feels good to be "thanked" and apppreciated! (And "seen" and "noticed" etc.)

You know I am much like you in that aspect. When I dated; even if a guy got up to put his dishes in the sink; I would thank him whether it was a cooked meal, mowing the lawn, etc. I always thank a person for helping my no matter how big or small the job is. Its not only good manners but showing appreciation for that person. The funny thing is when I do thank a guy; he is shocked. I guess he assumes that he will do the chore without any thanks. I don't operate that way. Guess I am weird that way.

One of the ways I see roles played out is through the mail I receive from men once in awhile...The other day someone sent me an email with just: "xxxxxxooooo!"...But most of the time notes start off with terms of endearment like: "Hi pretty lady!" Or: "Hi gorgeous!" (Etc.)...I feel like writing back and saying: "Sorry! You're barking up the wrong tree!" (But I try to be "nice" because I know the men "mean well!")...But it all seems foreign to me! I guess the men assume that I want to be complimented on my beauty or addressed as "gorgeous" (etc.) just because I happen to be a woman. And they assume that all women want the "same things."...So they basically use a "formula" when it comes to relating to women. (Certain that they are saying the "right things!")...Do women have some type of "formula" that they use when they contact (or approach) men? Is it common to start off with: "Hi stud?" Or: "Hey Mr. GQ!".. What are some of the normal and standard procedures? Just curious! Thanks!

It feels good to say "thanks." Doesn't it?....I think it has to do with having a clear-cut sense of "boundaries."... Where do I "start" and "end" and where do you "begin?"....This probably relates to the "parent/child stuff" that plays out in some marriages and all the expectations and assumptions etc. Don't you think?..Kids don't always stop and "thank" their parents for all they do...And I've been around some parents who don't think it's necessary to "thank" their kids for every little thing either...There is a sense of enmeshment. Even "ownership!" And confusion about "who" is "who!"....Is my spouse or child just "part" of me or "separate?" I think the "boundaries" get "blurred" at times. Don't you?

I just think I was brought up with proper manners. I still address people as sir and mam which was partly the way I was brought up and of course military training. I make it a point to thank my cadets when they help carry my band gear or open a door for me. I guess for me; I don't expect people to do things for me even in a relationship so when they actually do something; I thank them as I genuinely appreciate it. I am sure most on here will say that your partner is expected to do this and that but for me personally; I don't have these expectations. When guys did stuff for me; they did it because they wanted to not because I nagged them, made them feel guilty (you would do this for me if you loved me crap) or it was expected. Very strange world we live in.

navygirl...It's about saying "thank you" and being able to give other people praise and credit when it's due too...Don't you think?...You're right! Society can be weird!...I don't want to treat someone like my "slave" or my "possession."...When my sons were small one of my aunts tried to order them around. She viewed herself as "royalty" and "one-up" just because she was an adult and they were kids!...I always told her to "knock it off" and get up and get her own things. My sons weren't her "slaves!"...Some people are definitely arrogant! It always turns me off!...I don't feel that I "own" anyone either. And I don't want to "use" anyone!

I am on the same page as you Greeneyes. I couldn't treat anyone like my slave or possession either. To me; its all about respect and I can't expect others to respect me if I don't respect them; however some people just don't seem to get it.

navygirl...I agree with you when it comes to respect..Sometimes I feel like I am walking around in the "Twilight Zone" since my husband and sons and the rest of my family passed away...My former culture is extinct now except for me...Thank goodness I've run into some open-minded people like you and a few other friends. (Thanks!)...But sometimes the world seems a bit bewildering to me and even "psycho."...I had no idea that so many people and couples were still playing-out and acting-out the old "battle of the sexes."...My younger son ran into some weird and bizarre scenarios when he went on his last few dates...He felt a lot of young women were going "backwards" instead of "forward." They "developed" their looks and bodies and "sexiness" but not their minds!.. He knew that me and a lot of other women (and men) fought to "upgrade" the status of women back in the 60's and 70's...Anyway he put dating "on-hold" and just focused on his own goals and projects too.

Interesting that you said this about women going backward. I was outside trying to start my new lawnmower as I had never had a gas mower with instruction manual in hand. I couldn't get it started so a young man in his 30s came across the street to lend me a hand. It turns out the instructions were wrong so I didn't feel like a complete fool. He said he admired me for trying to start this mower myself rather than the typical woman his age that would stand there and expect a man to come to her rescue. He too said he was tired of dating these (his words)"useless women" that simply won't do anything for themselves or make any decisions. So, I guess not all men want dumb women but I sure as hell have met a lot in my age category.

navygirl...Thanks for sharing what your neighbor said when you were trying to start your new lawn mower...I think some men probably define themselves as "problem-solvers" and "protectors." Don't you?.. Some women may feel obligated to conform and automatically hand certain "jobs" and problems over to their man...It works both ways. Sometimes my friends' husbands answer the phone when I call and we might talk for a little bit before my friends get on the line...They seem a little "in the dark" (at times) when I've asked about situations in their family or house etc...They tell me that I'll have to ask their wives about it because they don't know...This happens a lot. And it always surprises me...My husband was pretty much "in the know" about everything. My Dad was this way too. I'm not used to so much "separatism."

Greeneyes; yes I do think men want to be problem solvers and protectors. With me; men need to know when to step back which is why I started that post about guys always wanting to do things for me. I don't mind help but I don't want them doing everything for me. As for a man protecting me; that is such a laugh. I never met any man that I felt could protect me in any way at all. Personally, the way my life has gone is that I have to protect myself against my so called protectors. It sounds like your dad and your husband knew how to make a relationship work well. Too bad other men couldn't learn from these men.

navygirl...I can relate to what you wrote. (Having to "protect" yourself from the so-called "protectors.")...I've run into some of the "stuff" with both men and women since my husband passed away...I don't act "dumb" or run to everyone for help or advice. I've always been more of a loner and self-sufficient...Right after my husband died some people put me and my son in the same category as the "kids." It was so weird. My son was pushing 40 and he lived on his own. We just enjoyed spending time together...It's a "weird world" and a lot of people definitely jump to conclusions. Or they get carried away when it comes to viewing themselves as "rescuers" or "protectors" or even self-proclaimed "doctors" at times. Don't you think? YUKKO! No thanks!!

leadership, facing challenges and responsibilities while providing for and protecting family


submission, humble trust in the ability of another to make decisions and lead

If I found the former, I would love to be the latter

I guess we all have different backgrounds and experiences and beliefs that influence us today..I can't remember a time in my life where I ever felt comfortable "sitting back" and letting someone else take the lead and make all the decisions. (With no input from me.)...My parents were great people and smart and wise most of the time...But yet they were fallible human beings who did make mistakes at times and they had some "blind spots." (Like we all do! Myself included!) ...My Dad always said: "Two heads or three heads are better than one!" When we faced problems we all sat around as a family and had "brainstorming sessions" to come-up with ideas and solutions as a "team."...I was included in these "sessions" starting at a young age. My parents felt that I had valuable ideas to contribute (too) even though I was still a kid!...Anyway I wouldn't do well with a husband who expected me to "sit back" while he made decisions on his own. I'm used to being part of a "team!" And having "input" about everything!