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| Topic: Recovery from religion... | |
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Some nice God, a God who purposefully confuses people so that they won't understand the truth. Yet he loves us, ********. Love would make clear without any doubt what the truth was if it was so important not speak in some ******** riddles. FAIL. MAN wrote the Bible. Period. That's what you are stuck on. That's why I'm pestering you. You're blaming the wrong "villain". Yes Man wrote the Bible, and that's EXACTLY why it's not the word of God. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sat 03/24/12 10:48 PM
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I for one am thankful I was brought up in my religion and I love Jesus. I recieve so much comfort from knowing God truly does exist and find it quite sad that others don't get that same comfort. Yes it is sad. However I find it sadder that so many have grown to fear God or fear damnation or hell, when there is nothing we should fear at all. Religion encourages such ideas, which is why it can be so harmful. I experienced the fear, so I'd know. I have no such fears now, because I know I am and always was loved. I'd wish that knowledge and peace on everyone. Yes God is real, very real, but God is far from what we are generally told it to be, and much more loving. |
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I for one am thankful I was brought up in my religion and I love Jesus. I recieve so much comfort from knowing God truly does exist and find it quite sad that others don't get that same comfort. Yes it is sad. However I find it sadder that so many have grown to fear God or fear damnation or hell, when there is nothing we should fear at all. Religion encourages such ideas, which is why it can be so harmful. I experienced the fear, so I'd know. I have no such fears now, because I know I am and always was loved. I'd wish that knowledge and peace on everyone. Yes God is real, very real, but God is far from what we are generally told it to be, and much more loving. Religion encourages such ideas, which is why it can be so harmful No, not "religion" in general. Christianity spread absolutely no fear. We love and serve out of love, not fear. For if it was out of fear it would be in vein, and out of "fear" not love. |
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I dont know,, those who seem to oppose religion the most consistently (at least on mingle)seem to be much unhappier and emptier than those who dont,,,although they protest more often about how much happier they supposedly are,,, I don't know about you, but knowing that God is not this being that is constantly watching over our shoulder judging our every move, and demanding we stop certain actions and believe particular things risking our eternal souls if we don't, has made me MUCH happier and MUCH more at peace than I ever used to before. Am I perfect? No. Are there things I could work on? Yes. But the difference is now, I am in full control of my life here, of my destiny. I am free to make of my life what I want to make of it, free to make choices good or bad, to take whatever path I choose to. My life is mine own to create, to live based upon what I want out of it, with no eternal punishments for choosing wrong. Knowing without a shadow of a doubt that no matter what I do down here, that I am and always was loved, and when it's all over will go back to that loving being from whence I came and comparing that to what I used to believe, is like night and day. Until you've experienced both sides of this, you cannot and will not be able to understand the difference. I guess that leaves me out of alot of conversations then,,,plenty of things I have CHOSEN not to experience,,,, including disbelief in what makes sense to me and works for me,,,, |
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You're proving my point, if we all have to in the end worship God the same way to be saved, the relationship cannot be personal. Nothing you say will make it so, it still can't be. not all worship the same way, not all believe the same way and not all will be "saved" the same way every individual "dates" someone else so by ur words, none of these relationships are "personal"? or am i misunderstandin? My point is simply, if everyone is required to end up at the same place at the end of things, then they really can't have a personal relationship with God. Personal means it's something no one else can define but them. If I wanted to worship God through nature for example, I could, if wanted to pray to God using a particular name, I could. These are different ways to connect to God. If those ways are in effect not available, it cannot be personal because it would become more what God expects you to be, than what you wish to be. This is how religion works, it molds you into its' belief of what God wants, instead of letting you find God your own way on your own terms. It'd be like if you told your kids they could have a personal relationship with you, but they all had to play football. It doesn't work. Instead of figuring out what they like, what they desire out of life, what their goals and dreams are, you set the path out for them regardless of if they like or not. It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Hate to break it to you, but it is all about God and doing what God wants. It's not about us exactly in that sense. We don't obey God out of derest, or being forced. We obey God because we WANT to, because we are WILLING to obey. If one is not willing to obey, they by all means have that choice. But how then would they expect to get blessed in return? Why would God do your will, when you aren't doing his? You couldn't be more wrong. God is not a monster who will let you die if you don't live exactly right. No God is much more loving than that, thank goodness. Why wouldn't he allow you to continue to live? How would you ever ask for forgiveness and give your life over to God if he automatically judged you to death when you first commit a sin? Where's the compassion in that? There's no compassion in that either, the Biblical God is NOT AT ALL compassionate. The very idea that a loving God would need the blood of an innocent being to love people again after what other people did, is absurd! Love does not require death to be, period. Then on top of that, even after saying it's for all, if you do one thing wrong, you still die! Again NOT love. this is a logical point of view from the perspective of life that is singular and of the highest priority the logical point of view from the perspective of christians like myself though, is that there is EVERLASTING life, so the loss of the mortal life is not the worst thing the CREATOR of life can do as the CREATOR controls what life is in the first place and can give everlasting life after our flesh has expired,,, Yes, but why would God let ANYONE perish if it knows what is good for them? If you had a child who did something really wrong, would you punish them eternally for it or just for a while till they learn? If we know it's wrong, so does God. That simple. that presumes Gods knowledge is dependent upon ours, which is backwards to what christians like me believe death of the mortal flesh is a given to deliver from the spiritual sickness of sin eternal life is ours for the asking if we wish to live beyond the years of our mortal flesh DEATH is a GIVEN,,,the body expiring is a GIVEN not a punishment |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 03/25/12 12:05 AM
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Here's another thing for ya too. If God is perfect how the hell could it create a flawed creation? The whole idea that we could go against its' wishes and need to be wiped out by a flood or saved from ourselves via a blood sacrifice points to a mistake by the Creator, NOT the created. How can God be perfect if this happened? It couldn't. There's only two choices, either everything is as it was meant to be, including the existence of good and evil, or God ****ed up. And somehow I don't see an all knowing being doing that. your choice to limit God is the major source of the confusion I dont place mortal limits on an immortal creator,, so I dont demand his choices or his actions live up to 'my' ideas of right and wrong we are HIS Creation,, to create however he chose we can feel like he made mistakes or not,, but our knowledge next to his is far too limited to consider ourself a valid source to judge the CREATOR by just like when I was a mortal child, many things my parents did just didnt make sense and some didnt seem fair, until I gained the experience and knowledge to see what the long term intent and effects were I view my creator with hundred times more knowledge than my parents and have the same faith in HIS KNOWLEDGE and HIS INTENTIONS with choices , whether they seem fair at the time or not to my mortal flesh thats just my opinion though ,,,others may continue to ask why he didnt just make it easy on everyone , create them, make sure they were happy, and give them everlasting life and they will probably never get the answers that will be good enough or valid enough,,, |
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[One of the MAIN ways God DRAWS man unto Him so that
man can be SAVED, is thru THE HEARING OF GOD'S WORD BEING PREACHED. Where God's FULL GOSPEL is being preached is where the POWER of God is moving...... Point being, some churches are DEAD....so if any of you are seeking,ask God to LEAD you to a FULL GOSPEL church where the Fullnes of God's Word is being taught,and not just part. Where JESUS is beng LIFTED UP, is where the POWER of GOD IS MOVING. Peope are DRAWN to God Where God's Word is Being Preached. Remember now...Jesus IS the Word. For Those Who Are Seeking Truth,ask God to Lead You Now and He Will. And While You are Seekig...... Don't Forget To Open up That Holy Book called The Bible. If You are Truly Seeking God for Answers, God Will Speak to You as You Read His Word. Every Answer You Seek to Every Question You Ask, May be Found Right There in God's Word. Be Blessed Now...... 
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You're proving my point, if we all have to in the end worship God the same way to be saved, the relationship cannot be personal. Nothing you say will make it so, it still can't be. not all worship the same way, not all believe the same way and not all will be "saved" the same way every individual "dates" someone else so by ur words, none of these relationships are "personal"? or am i misunderstandin? My point is simply, if everyone is required to end up at the same place at the end of things, then they really can't have a personal relationship with God. Personal means it's something no one else can define but them. If I wanted to worship God through nature for example, I could, if wanted to pray to God using a particular name, I could. These are different ways to connect to God. If those ways are in effect not available, it cannot be personal because it would become more what God expects you to be, than what you wish to be. This is how religion works, it molds you into its' belief of what God wants, instead of letting you find God your own way on your own terms. It'd be like if you told your kids they could have a personal relationship with you, but they all had to play football. It doesn't work. Instead of figuring out what they like, what they desire out of life, what their goals and dreams are, you set the path out for them regardless of if they like or not. It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Hate to break it to you, but it is all about God and doing what God wants. It's not about us exactly in that sense. We don't obey God out of derest, or being forced. We obey God because we WANT to, because we are WILLING to obey. If one is not willing to obey, they by all means have that choice. But how then would they expect to get blessed in return? Why would God do your will, when you aren't doing his? You couldn't be more wrong. God is not a monster who will let you die if you don't live exactly right. No God is much more loving than that, thank goodness. Why wouldn't he allow you to continue to live? How would you ever ask for forgiveness and give your life over to God if he automatically judged you to death when you first commit a sin? Where's the compassion in that? There's no compassion in that either, the Biblical God is NOT AT ALL compassionate. The very idea that a loving God would need the blood of an innocent being to love people again after what other people did, is absurd! Love does not require death to be, period. Then on top of that, even after saying it's for all, if you do one thing wrong, you still die! Again NOT love. this is a logical point of view from the perspective of life that is singular and of the highest priority the logical point of view from the perspective of christians like myself though, is that there is EVERLASTING life, so the loss of the mortal life is not the worst thing the CREATOR of life can do as the CREATOR controls what life is in the first place and can give everlasting life after our flesh has expired,,, Yes, but why would God let ANYONE perish if it knows what is good for them? If you had a child who did something really wrong, would you punish them eternally for it or just for a while till they learn? If we know it's wrong, so does God. That simple. that presumes Gods knowledge is dependent upon ours, which is backwards to what christians like me believe death of the mortal flesh is a given to deliver from the spiritual sickness of sin eternal life is ours for the asking if we wish to live beyond the years of our mortal flesh DEATH is a GIVEN,,,the body expiring is a GIVEN not a punishment But eternal death is different. Put it this way, if God can save us from something that it KNOWS we don't want, even if we choose it, and having the capacity to do that doesn't take us from it, it is a bad God and a bad parent. No good parent worth their salt would allow their child to make a bad choice if he/she could stop them from doing it, and you know that. So if WE know that and as best we could with our limited abilities as humans would do all we could to protect our kids from harm, you don't think God being infinitely bigger and unlimited compared to we would do the same thing? It makes no sense. Firstly, as I said above any God that had the ability to save everyone (which we don't have), and chose not to do it, even knowing we wouldn't want the other choice is a failure as a God and as a parent, and further if this God somehow COULDN'T save everyone, well then it's not a God at all. |
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You're proving my point, if we all have to in the end worship God the same way to be saved, the relationship cannot be personal. Nothing you say will make it so, it still can't be. not all worship the same way, not all believe the same way and not all will be "saved" the same way every individual "dates" someone else so by ur words, none of these relationships are "personal"? or am i misunderstandin? My point is simply, if everyone is required to end up at the same place at the end of things, then they really can't have a personal relationship with God. Personal means it's something no one else can define but them. If I wanted to worship God through nature for example, I could, if wanted to pray to God using a particular name, I could. These are different ways to connect to God. If those ways are in effect not available, it cannot be personal because it would become more what God expects you to be, than what you wish to be. This is how religion works, it molds you into its' belief of what God wants, instead of letting you find God your own way on your own terms. It'd be like if you told your kids they could have a personal relationship with you, but they all had to play football. It doesn't work. Instead of figuring out what they like, what they desire out of life, what their goals and dreams are, you set the path out for them regardless of if they like or not. It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Hate to break it to you, but it is all about God and doing what God wants. It's not about us exactly in that sense. We don't obey God out of derest, or being forced. We obey God because we WANT to, because we are WILLING to obey. If one is not willing to obey, they by all means have that choice. But how then would they expect to get blessed in return? Why would God do your will, when you aren't doing his? You couldn't be more wrong. God is not a monster who will let you die if you don't live exactly right. No God is much more loving than that, thank goodness. Why wouldn't he allow you to continue to live? How would you ever ask for forgiveness and give your life over to God if he automatically judged you to death when you first commit a sin? Where's the compassion in that? There's no compassion in that either, the Biblical God is NOT AT ALL compassionate. The very idea that a loving God would need the blood of an innocent being to love people again after what other people did, is absurd! Love does not require death to be, period. Then on top of that, even after saying it's for all, if you do one thing wrong, you still die! Again NOT love. this is a logical point of view from the perspective of life that is singular and of the highest priority the logical point of view from the perspective of christians like myself though, is that there is EVERLASTING life, so the loss of the mortal life is not the worst thing the CREATOR of life can do as the CREATOR controls what life is in the first place and can give everlasting life after our flesh has expired,,, Yes, but why would God let ANYONE perish if it knows what is good for them? If you had a child who did something really wrong, would you punish them eternally for it or just for a while till they learn? If we know it's wrong, so does God. That simple. that presumes Gods knowledge is dependent upon ours, which is backwards to what christians like me believe death of the mortal flesh is a given to deliver from the spiritual sickness of sin eternal life is ours for the asking if we wish to live beyond the years of our mortal flesh DEATH is a GIVEN,,,the body expiring is a GIVEN not a punishment But eternal death is different. Put it this way, if God can save us from something that it KNOWS we don't want, even if we choose it, and having the capacity to do that doesn't take us from it, it is a bad God and a bad parent. No good parent worth their salt would allow their child to make a bad choice if he/she could stop them from doing it, and you know that. So if WE know that and as best we could with our limited abilities as humans would do all we could to protect our kids from harm, you don't think God being infinitely bigger and unlimited compared to we would do the same thing? It makes no sense. Firstly, as I said above any God that had the ability to save everyone (which we don't have), and chose not to do it, even knowing we wouldn't want the other choice is a failure as a God and as a parent, and further if this God somehow COULDN'T save everyone, well then it's not a God at all. I dont think you have children..lol no offense protecting our kids from harm doesnt mean making their decision for them,, we can talk to them and advise them best we can, but their decision is still THEIRS to make my father in heaven is no worse a parent for trying to counsel and be there but still allowing me to make my own decision,,, |
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Here's another thing for ya too. If God is perfect how the hell could it create a flawed creation? The whole idea that we could go against its' wishes and need to be wiped out by a flood or saved from ourselves via a blood sacrifice points to a mistake by the Creator, NOT the created. How can God be perfect if this happened? It couldn't. There's only two choices, either everything is as it was meant to be, including the existence of good and evil, or God ****ed up. And somehow I don't see an all knowing being doing that. your choice to limit God is the major source of the confusion I dont place mortal limits on an immortal creator,, so I dont demand his choices or his actions live up to 'my' ideas of right and wrong we are HIS Creation,, to create however he chose we can feel like he made mistakes or not,, but our knowledge next to his is far too limited to consider ourself a valid source to judge the CREATOR by just like when I was a mortal child, many things my parents did just didnt make sense and some didnt seem fair, until I gained the experience and knowledge to see what the long term intent and effects were I view my creator with hundred times more knowledge than my parents and have the same faith in HIS KNOWLEDGE and HIS INTENTIONS with choices , whether they seem fair at the time or not to my mortal flesh Of course you're gonna defend your God because you've been trained to no matter what, that's quite evident. Doesn't change the fact that said God FAILED if He couldn't make His creation act as He wanted it to act. You cannot sit there and try to tell me this being is perfect when He creates a creation that has the ability to do things contrary to what He desires. It doesn't work, not now, not ever. You simply cannot have it both ways. Either God created perfectly, and everything good and bad alike has a purpose or He didn't. Simple as that. Further as if that isn't bad enough, placing the blame on US for acting a certain way, when that was how he MADE US, makes even less sense than the above. Any flaws in creation have to fall on the creator, NOT the created. It's like if someone makes a watch, and the watch doesn't work right. Would it make any sense to blame the watch? No, because it had no control over how it was made, any defects would be because of the one that made it. This is much the same, we had ZERO control over how we were made, so if we are acting a certain way, it's only possible because the Creator gave us that ability. Yet we're somehow at fault? No way! Either God intended us to have that ability on purpose, meaning he WANTED good and evil to exist or he didn't. It cannot be both. And if he WANTED all of this to be as it is, it doesn't make much sense to throw a hissy fit when it happens as he created it. Why would he? So again two choices, God made it this way on purpose and wanted it this way from the start meaning there's no need to blame anyone for anything, or God is not perfect. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 03/25/12 01:41 AM
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Of course you're gonna defend your God because you've been trained to no matter what, that's quite evident. Doesn't change the fact that said God FAILED if He couldn't make His creation act as He wanted it to act.
this type of creation is already created by men,, its called a ROBOT men are a more complex creation,, that you think that makes the creation a failure is unfortunate... GOd gave us choice, and IM glad, I think that was a perfect choice without choice we would be walking zombies, without choice we wouldnt most likely feel things like joy or sadness because we would just be running 'as programmed' choice was part of the perfect creation, not proof of an imperfect one a watch doesnt have choices because its merely a machine I truly just cant relate to the need or point of view that humans being capable of bad choices makes the creator imperfect he made us capable, and he gave us choice if we make the bad choice, that is not the same as a watch not working, because a watch had no 'choice' and each watch is duplicated with the next watch we werent manufactured in such a way, we are diverse and constanly upgradable or downgradable based upon our OWN choices,, thats amazing and perfect,,, in my opinion |
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You're proving my point, if we all have to in the end worship God the same way to be saved, the relationship cannot be personal. Nothing you say will make it so, it still can't be. not all worship the same way, not all believe the same way and not all will be "saved" the same way every individual "dates" someone else so by ur words, none of these relationships are "personal"? or am i misunderstandin? My point is simply, if everyone is required to end up at the same place at the end of things, then they really can't have a personal relationship with God. Personal means it's something no one else can define but them. If I wanted to worship God through nature for example, I could, if wanted to pray to God using a particular name, I could. These are different ways to connect to God. If those ways are in effect not available, it cannot be personal because it would become more what God expects you to be, than what you wish to be. This is how religion works, it molds you into its' belief of what God wants, instead of letting you find God your own way on your own terms. It'd be like if you told your kids they could have a personal relationship with you, but they all had to play football. It doesn't work. Instead of figuring out what they like, what they desire out of life, what their goals and dreams are, you set the path out for them regardless of if they like or not. It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Hate to break it to you, but it is all about God and doing what God wants. It's not about us exactly in that sense. We don't obey God out of derest, or being forced. We obey God because we WANT to, because we are WILLING to obey. If one is not willing to obey, they by all means have that choice. But how then would they expect to get blessed in return? Why would God do your will, when you aren't doing his? You couldn't be more wrong. God is not a monster who will let you die if you don't live exactly right. No God is much more loving than that, thank goodness. Why wouldn't he allow you to continue to live? How would you ever ask for forgiveness and give your life over to God if he automatically judged you to death when you first commit a sin? Where's the compassion in that? There's no compassion in that either, the Biblical God is NOT AT ALL compassionate. The very idea that a loving God would need the blood of an innocent being to love people again after what other people did, is absurd! Love does not require death to be, period. Then on top of that, even after saying it's for all, if you do one thing wrong, you still die! Again NOT love. this is a logical point of view from the perspective of life that is singular and of the highest priority the logical point of view from the perspective of christians like myself though, is that there is EVERLASTING life, so the loss of the mortal life is not the worst thing the CREATOR of life can do as the CREATOR controls what life is in the first place and can give everlasting life after our flesh has expired,,, Yes, but why would God let ANYONE perish if it knows what is good for them? If you had a child who did something really wrong, would you punish them eternally for it or just for a while till they learn? If we know it's wrong, so does God. That simple. that presumes Gods knowledge is dependent upon ours, which is backwards to what christians like me believe death of the mortal flesh is a given to deliver from the spiritual sickness of sin eternal life is ours for the asking if we wish to live beyond the years of our mortal flesh DEATH is a GIVEN,,,the body expiring is a GIVEN not a punishment But eternal death is different. Put it this way, if God can save us from something that it KNOWS we don't want, even if we choose it, and having the capacity to do that doesn't take us from it, it is a bad God and a bad parent. No good parent worth their salt would allow their child to make a bad choice if he/she could stop them from doing it, and you know that. So if WE know that and as best we could with our limited abilities as humans would do all we could to protect our kids from harm, you don't think God being infinitely bigger and unlimited compared to we would do the same thing? It makes no sense. Firstly, as I said above any God that had the ability to save everyone (which we don't have), and chose not to do it, even knowing we wouldn't want the other choice is a failure as a God and as a parent, and further if this God somehow COULDN'T save everyone, well then it's not a God at all. I dont think you have children..lol no offense protecting our kids from harm doesnt mean making their decision for them,, we can talk to them and advise them best we can, but their decision is still THEIRS to make my father in heaven is no worse a parent for trying to counsel and be there but still allowing me to make my own decision,,, I don't, but here's my point. We can't make our decisions for them as parents here, you are right, we are limited in our abilities. But God ISN'T. God has all this ability, all this power, and yet it doesn't use it. What does he have it for then? I refuse to accept that a God who is on a higher plane than I am, would fail on that scale. God should be BETTER than we are, not worse or the same. Anything less isn't acceptable. |
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Of course you're gonna defend your God because you've been trained to no matter what, that's quite evident. Doesn't change the fact that said God FAILED if He couldn't make His creation act as He wanted it to act. this type of creation is already created by men,, its called a ROBOT men are a more complex creation,, that you think that makes the creation a failure is unfortunate... GOd gave us choice, and IM glad, I think that was a perfect choice without choice we would be walking zombies, without choice we wouldnt most likely feel things like joy or sadness because we would just be running 'as programmed' choice was part of the perfect creation, not proof of an imperfect one Oh right the "choice" of suck my religion or burn. Free will cannot exist where fear is present. It simply can't, and your God uses fear to get what it wants whether you want to believe it or not. |
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You're proving my point, if we all have to in the end worship God the same way to be saved, the relationship cannot be personal. Nothing you say will make it so, it still can't be. not all worship the same way, not all believe the same way and not all will be "saved" the same way every individual "dates" someone else so by ur words, none of these relationships are "personal"? or am i misunderstandin? My point is simply, if everyone is required to end up at the same place at the end of things, then they really can't have a personal relationship with God. Personal means it's something no one else can define but them. If I wanted to worship God through nature for example, I could, if wanted to pray to God using a particular name, I could. These are different ways to connect to God. If those ways are in effect not available, it cannot be personal because it would become more what God expects you to be, than what you wish to be. This is how religion works, it molds you into its' belief of what God wants, instead of letting you find God your own way on your own terms. It'd be like if you told your kids they could have a personal relationship with you, but they all had to play football. It doesn't work. Instead of figuring out what they like, what they desire out of life, what their goals and dreams are, you set the path out for them regardless of if they like or not. It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Hate to break it to you, but it is all about God and doing what God wants. It's not about us exactly in that sense. We don't obey God out of derest, or being forced. We obey God because we WANT to, because we are WILLING to obey. If one is not willing to obey, they by all means have that choice. But how then would they expect to get blessed in return? Why would God do your will, when you aren't doing his? You couldn't be more wrong. God is not a monster who will let you die if you don't live exactly right. No God is much more loving than that, thank goodness. Why wouldn't he allow you to continue to live? How would you ever ask for forgiveness and give your life over to God if he automatically judged you to death when you first commit a sin? Where's the compassion in that? There's no compassion in that either, the Biblical God is NOT AT ALL compassionate. The very idea that a loving God would need the blood of an innocent being to love people again after what other people did, is absurd! Love does not require death to be, period. Then on top of that, even after saying it's for all, if you do one thing wrong, you still die! Again NOT love. this is a logical point of view from the perspective of life that is singular and of the highest priority the logical point of view from the perspective of christians like myself though, is that there is EVERLASTING life, so the loss of the mortal life is not the worst thing the CREATOR of life can do as the CREATOR controls what life is in the first place and can give everlasting life after our flesh has expired,,, Yes, but why would God let ANYONE perish if it knows what is good for them? If you had a child who did something really wrong, would you punish them eternally for it or just for a while till they learn? If we know it's wrong, so does God. That simple. that presumes Gods knowledge is dependent upon ours, which is backwards to what christians like me believe death of the mortal flesh is a given to deliver from the spiritual sickness of sin eternal life is ours for the asking if we wish to live beyond the years of our mortal flesh DEATH is a GIVEN,,,the body expiring is a GIVEN not a punishment But eternal death is different. Put it this way, if God can save us from something that it KNOWS we don't want, even if we choose it, and having the capacity to do that doesn't take us from it, it is a bad God and a bad parent. No good parent worth their salt would allow their child to make a bad choice if he/she could stop them from doing it, and you know that. So if WE know that and as best we could with our limited abilities as humans would do all we could to protect our kids from harm, you don't think God being infinitely bigger and unlimited compared to we would do the same thing? It makes no sense. Firstly, as I said above any God that had the ability to save everyone (which we don't have), and chose not to do it, even knowing we wouldn't want the other choice is a failure as a God and as a parent, and further if this God somehow COULDN'T save everyone, well then it's not a God at all. I dont think you have children..lol no offense protecting our kids from harm doesnt mean making their decision for them,, we can talk to them and advise them best we can, but their decision is still THEIRS to make my father in heaven is no worse a parent for trying to counsel and be there but still allowing me to make my own decision,,, I don't, but here's my point. We can't make our decisions for them as parents here, you are right, we are limited in our abilities. But God ISN'T. God has all this ability, all this power, and yet it doesn't use it. What does he have it for then? I refuse to accept that a God who is on a higher plane than I am, would fail on that scale. God should be BETTER than we are, not worse or the same. Anything less isn't acceptable. AGAIN< this point of view seems to demand that God be there as 'service' to HUMANS not a view I share,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
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Sun 03/25/12 01:44 AM
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You're proving my point, if we all have to in the end worship God the same way to be saved, the relationship cannot be personal. Nothing you say will make it so, it still can't be. not all worship the same way, not all believe the same way and not all will be "saved" the same way every individual "dates" someone else so by ur words, none of these relationships are "personal"? or am i misunderstandin? My point is simply, if everyone is required to end up at the same place at the end of things, then they really can't have a personal relationship with God. Personal means it's something no one else can define but them. If I wanted to worship God through nature for example, I could, if wanted to pray to God using a particular name, I could. These are different ways to connect to God. If those ways are in effect not available, it cannot be personal because it would become more what God expects you to be, than what you wish to be. This is how religion works, it molds you into its' belief of what God wants, instead of letting you find God your own way on your own terms. It'd be like if you told your kids they could have a personal relationship with you, but they all had to play football. It doesn't work. Instead of figuring out what they like, what they desire out of life, what their goals and dreams are, you set the path out for them regardless of if they like or not. It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Hate to break it to you, but it is all about God and doing what God wants. It's not about us exactly in that sense. We don't obey God out of derest, or being forced. We obey God because we WANT to, because we are WILLING to obey. If one is not willing to obey, they by all means have that choice. But how then would they expect to get blessed in return? Why would God do your will, when you aren't doing his? You couldn't be more wrong. God is not a monster who will let you die if you don't live exactly right. No God is much more loving than that, thank goodness. Why wouldn't he allow you to continue to live? How would you ever ask for forgiveness and give your life over to God if he automatically judged you to death when you first commit a sin? Where's the compassion in that? There's no compassion in that either, the Biblical God is NOT AT ALL compassionate. The very idea that a loving God would need the blood of an innocent being to love people again after what other people did, is absurd! Love does not require death to be, period. Then on top of that, even after saying it's for all, if you do one thing wrong, you still die! Again NOT love. this is a logical point of view from the perspective of life that is singular and of the highest priority the logical point of view from the perspective of christians like myself though, is that there is EVERLASTING life, so the loss of the mortal life is not the worst thing the CREATOR of life can do as the CREATOR controls what life is in the first place and can give everlasting life after our flesh has expired,,, Yes, but why would God let ANYONE perish if it knows what is good for them? If you had a child who did something really wrong, would you punish them eternally for it or just for a while till they learn? If we know it's wrong, so does God. That simple. that presumes Gods knowledge is dependent upon ours, which is backwards to what christians like me believe death of the mortal flesh is a given to deliver from the spiritual sickness of sin eternal life is ours for the asking if we wish to live beyond the years of our mortal flesh DEATH is a GIVEN,,,the body expiring is a GIVEN not a punishment But eternal death is different. Put it this way, if God can save us from something that it KNOWS we don't want, even if we choose it, and having the capacity to do that doesn't take us from it, it is a bad God and a bad parent. No good parent worth their salt would allow their child to make a bad choice if he/she could stop them from doing it, and you know that. So if WE know that and as best we could with our limited abilities as humans would do all we could to protect our kids from harm, you don't think God being infinitely bigger and unlimited compared to we would do the same thing? It makes no sense. Firstly, as I said above any God that had the ability to save everyone (which we don't have), and chose not to do it, even knowing we wouldn't want the other choice is a failure as a God and as a parent, and further if this God somehow COULDN'T save everyone, well then it's not a God at all. I dont think you have children..lol no offense protecting our kids from harm doesnt mean making their decision for them,, we can talk to them and advise them best we can, but their decision is still THEIRS to make my father in heaven is no worse a parent for trying to counsel and be there but still allowing me to make my own decision,,, I don't, but here's my point. We can't make our decisions for them as parents here, you are right, we are limited in our abilities. But God ISN'T. God has all this ability, all this power, and yet it doesn't use it. What does he have it for then? I refuse to accept that a God who is on a higher plane than I am, would fail on that scale. God should be BETTER than we are, not worse or the same. Anything less isn't acceptable. AGAIN< this point of view seems to demand that God be there as 'service' to HUMANS not a view I share,,, If God is supposed to be love, the actions should back it up. And a God that would let anyone be killed or tortured for all eternity, even when it doesn't have to happen is not a loving God, to say nothing of demanding worship and praise like a damn egomaniac. That isn't love either. |
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I for one am thankful I was brought up in my religion and I love Jesus. I recieve so much comfort from knowing God truly does exist and find it quite sad that others don't get that same comfort. Yes it is sad. However I find it sadder that so many have grown to fear God or fear damnation or hell, when there is nothing we should fear at all. Religion encourages such ideas, which is why it can be so harmful. I experienced the fear, so I'd know. I have no such fears now, because I know I am and always was loved. I'd wish that knowledge and peace on everyone. Yes God is real, very real, but God is far from what we are generally told it to be, and much more loving. We have been through this before on another thread. Unlike you I don't want to take the time to debate. Personally I think fearing going to Hell is a very good thing. There you go! I'm done. |
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You're proving my point, if we all have to in the end worship God the same way to be saved, the relationship cannot be personal. Nothing you say will make it so, it still can't be. not all worship the same way, not all believe the same way and not all will be "saved" the same way every individual "dates" someone else so by ur words, none of these relationships are "personal"? or am i misunderstandin? My point is simply, if everyone is required to end up at the same place at the end of things, then they really can't have a personal relationship with God. Personal means it's something no one else can define but them. If I wanted to worship God through nature for example, I could, if wanted to pray to God using a particular name, I could. These are different ways to connect to God. If those ways are in effect not available, it cannot be personal because it would become more what God expects you to be, than what you wish to be. This is how religion works, it molds you into its' belief of what God wants, instead of letting you find God your own way on your own terms. It'd be like if you told your kids they could have a personal relationship with you, but they all had to play football. It doesn't work. Instead of figuring out what they like, what they desire out of life, what their goals and dreams are, you set the path out for them regardless of if they like or not. It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God. Hate to break it to you, but it is all about God and doing what God wants. It's not about us exactly in that sense. We don't obey God out of derest, or being forced. We obey God because we WANT to, because we are WILLING to obey. If one is not willing to obey, they by all means have that choice. But how then would they expect to get blessed in return? Why would God do your will, when you aren't doing his? You couldn't be more wrong. God is not a monster who will let you die if you don't live exactly right. No God is much more loving than that, thank goodness. Why wouldn't he allow you to continue to live? How would you ever ask for forgiveness and give your life over to God if he automatically judged you to death when you first commit a sin? Where's the compassion in that? There's no compassion in that either, the Biblical God is NOT AT ALL compassionate. The very idea that a loving God would need the blood of an innocent being to love people again after what other people did, is absurd! Love does not require death to be, period. Then on top of that, even after saying it's for all, if you do one thing wrong, you still die! Again NOT love. this is a logical point of view from the perspective of life that is singular and of the highest priority the logical point of view from the perspective of christians like myself though, is that there is EVERLASTING life, so the loss of the mortal life is not the worst thing the CREATOR of life can do as the CREATOR controls what life is in the first place and can give everlasting life after our flesh has expired,,, Yes, but why would God let ANYONE perish if it knows what is good for them? If you had a child who did something really wrong, would you punish them eternally for it or just for a while till they learn? If we know it's wrong, so does God. That simple. that presumes Gods knowledge is dependent upon ours, which is backwards to what christians like me believe death of the mortal flesh is a given to deliver from the spiritual sickness of sin eternal life is ours for the asking if we wish to live beyond the years of our mortal flesh DEATH is a GIVEN,,,the body expiring is a GIVEN not a punishment But eternal death is different. Put it this way, if God can save us from something that it KNOWS we don't want, even if we choose it, and having the capacity to do that doesn't take us from it, it is a bad God and a bad parent. No good parent worth their salt would allow their child to make a bad choice if he/she could stop them from doing it, and you know that. So if WE know that and as best we could with our limited abilities as humans would do all we could to protect our kids from harm, you don't think God being infinitely bigger and unlimited compared to we would do the same thing? It makes no sense. Firstly, as I said above any God that had the ability to save everyone (which we don't have), and chose not to do it, even knowing we wouldn't want the other choice is a failure as a God and as a parent, and further if this God somehow COULDN'T save everyone, well then it's not a God at all. I dont think you have children..lol no offense protecting our kids from harm doesnt mean making their decision for them,, we can talk to them and advise them best we can, but their decision is still THEIRS to make my father in heaven is no worse a parent for trying to counsel and be there but still allowing me to make my own decision,,, I don't, but here's my point. We can't make our decisions for them as parents here, you are right, we are limited in our abilities. But God ISN'T. God has all this ability, all this power, and yet it doesn't use it. What does he have it for then? I refuse to accept that a God who is on a higher plane than I am, would fail on that scale. God should be BETTER than we are, not worse or the same. Anything less isn't acceptable. AGAIN< this point of view seems to demand that God be there as 'service' to HUMANS not a view I share,,, If God is supposed to be love, the actions should back it up. And a God that would let anyone be killed or tortured for all eternity, even when it doesn't have to happen is not a loving God, to say nothing of demanding worship and praise like a damn egomaniac. That isn't love either. ok. I Think God is perfect, and just, and I am grateful for the everlasting life offered through Christ. I Think the egomaniacal personality expects someone else to constantly fix their mistakes for them. but to each their own,,, |
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Oh right the "choice" of suck my religion or burn. Free will cannot exist where fear is present. It simply can't, and your God uses fear to get what it wants whether you want to believe it or not. BS. Like everything else you stated so far, it isn't "possible" because you "say so". Right. Explains a lot. |
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Yes Man wrote the Bible, and that's EXACTLY why it's not the word of God. Yes, cause that's the simpleton logic. |
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Edited by
Sin_and_Sorrow
on
Sun 03/25/12 02:04 AM
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If God is supposed to be love, the actions should back it up. And a God that would let anyone be killed or tortured for all eternity, even when it doesn't have to happen is not a loving God, to say nothing of demanding worship and praise like a damn egomaniac. That isn't love either. ok. I Think God is perfect, and just, and I am grateful for the everlasting life offered through Christ. I Think the egomaniacal personality expects someone else to constantly fix their mistakes for them. but to each their own,,, 1. Who exactly is burning Hell forever? Again, misperception. Also keep in mind, it is easy as pie to "avoid" this. 2. He doesn't "demand" it, do so or don't; your choice. 3. A parent "demands" respect from their child.. fancy that. And such is deemed "love" by "human" standards. IF the "afterlife" is true, that is the ultimate love. Dig deeper. If you stop your research at the "recent" tellings, you'll always be blinded from the true path, depth, means, and inevitably, the real "hypocrisy". Your arguments are from Google. You bring forth the same old "issues" and any explanation is instantly "null and void" because you are "right". Seriously, good luck with that. |
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