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Topic: The Cost of Israel to Americans
Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Sat 11/26/11 03:00 AM
The Israel-U.S. relationship has cost a significant number of American lives. The incidents in which hundreds of U.S. service personnel, diplomats, and civilians have been killed in the Middle East have been reported in the media. But the media seldom revisits these events, and scrupulously avoids analyzing why they occurred or compiling the cumulative toll of American deaths resulting from our Israel-centered Middle East policies

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 03:10 AM
The Israel-U.S. relationship has cost a significant number of American lives. The incidents in which hundreds of U.S. service personnel, diplomats, and civilians have been killed in the Middle East have been reported in the media. But the media seldom revisits these events, and scrupulously avoids analyzing why they occurred or compiling the cumulative toll of American deaths resulting from our Israel-centered Middle East policies Would you like to expand on that?

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 03:12 AM
Oh how this thread has gone onto every subject possible against Jews rather than stick to the topic It is others, not me who bring up "Jews." I am talking about Israel. You been talking about both interchangeably,except when you deny they even exist!

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 03:15 AM
Oh how this thread has gone onto every subject possible against Jews rather than stick to the topic It is others, not me who bring up "Jews." I am talking about Israel. The thread is about the COST of Israel to America Jeannie, not the 6 day war, the USS Liberty, terrorism, or religion.... These are all costs in fact we could probably add the 70's oil embargo to the cost. Israel is a huge anchor on our economy in more than one way. you cant put a price on our hypocracy in the eyes of the world. you need to as Obama's Healthcare-Bill on that!

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 03:17 AM Edited by Conrad_73 on Sat 11/26/11 03:18 AM
Oh how this thread has gone onto every subject possible against Jews rather than stick to the topic It is others, not me who bring up "Jews." I am talking about Israel. Anti-semitism and anti-Zionism go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. That is solid absolute proof that you are the one who is uneducated on the subject. Read all of these websites before you disagree. Most of the self styled Jews in Israel are not Semitic at all, and there are many Semitic Jews who are anti-Zionist. Now how would you explain this? http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ Contrary to common perception, Jewish anti-Zionism is not restricted exclusively to the well know Jewish anti-Zionist movements such as Satmar and Neturei Karta. There are in fact many Jewish movements, groups and organizations whose ideology regarding Zionism and the so-called "State of Israel" is that of the unadulterated Torah position that any form of Zionism is heresy and that the existence of the so-called "State of Israel" is illegitimate. No one has had to create any antagonism between our Torah and Zionism because such antagonism exists by virtue of the essence of Judaism itself, which can never tolerate the heresy of Zionism. Zionism is wrong from the Torah viewpoint, not because many of its adherents are lax in practice or even anti-religious, but because its fundamental principle conflicts with the Torah. Unfortunately, due to many undesirable factors, the view of Torah-true Jewry has been concealed from the general public. http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ ANTI-ZIONIST ORTHODOX JEWS HOLD PRESS CONFERENCE http://www.nkusa.org/ Internationsl Jewish anti=Zionist Network. http://www.ijsn.net/home/ But Jews,according to you do not exist!

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 03:37 AM
Oh how this thread has gone onto every subject possible against Jews rather than stick to the topic It is others, not me who bring up "Jews." I am talking about Israel. The thread is about the COST of Israel to America Jeannie, not the 6 day war, the USS Liberty, terrorism, or religion.... But then,they'd have nothing to b**** about!

s1owhand Joined Fri 05/18/07 Posts: 29437	Sat 11/26/11 04:07 AM Edited by s1owhand on Sat 11/26/11 04:34 AM
The Israel-U.S. relationship has cost a significant number of American lives. The incidents in which hundreds of U.S. service personnel, diplomats, and civilians have been killed in the Middle East have been reported in the media. But the media seldom revisits these events, and scrupulously avoids analyzing why they occurred or compiling the cumulative toll of American deaths resulting from our Israel-centered Middle East policies Here is another example of Judeo-myopia!! We lost how many in Iraq? In Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon? NONE of this was due in any way to Israel. Hezbollah - certainly in Lebanon. Al-Qaeda - absolutely in in Yemen, Afghanistan. Ba'ath party - true enough in Iraq. Yet with all the thousands of troops lost having nothing whatsoever to do with Israel you choose to attack ONLY Israel for friendly fire incidents or a handful of other tragic losses which Israel would never have intentioned as the US is one of Israel's best friends in the world. Some simply have a biased and non-sensical preoccupation with being anti-Israel. It might well be Judeo-phobia.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 04:19 AM
Oh how this thread has gone onto every subject possible against Jews rather than stick to the topic It is others, not me who bring up "Jews." I am talking about Israel. The thread is about the COST of Israel to America Jeannie, not the 6 day war, the USS Liberty, terrorism, or religion.... These are all costs in fact we could probably add the 70's oil embargo to the cost. Israel is a huge anchor on our economy in more than one way. you cant put a price on our hypocracy in the eyes of the world. you need to ask Obama's Healthcare-Bill on that!

Optomistic69 Joined Mon 10/10/11 Posts: 5173	Sat 11/26/11 05:15 AM
One of the myths that many Americans still believe is that the initial war between the Arabs and Israelis broke out on May 15, 1948 when the British withdrew and military units from Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Syria entered Palestine, allegedly because the Arabs had rejected a partition plan that the Israelis accepted.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 11/26/11 08:18 AM
Oh how this thread has gone onto every subject possible against Jews rather than stick to the topic It is others, not me who bring up "Jews." I am talking about Israel. Anti-semitism and anti-Zionism go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. That is solid absolute proof that you are the one who is uneducated on the subject. Read all of these websites before you disagree. Most of the self styled Jews in Israel are not Semitic at all, and there are many Semitic Jews who are anti-Zionist. Now how would you explain this? http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ Contrary to common perception, Jewish anti-Zionism is not restricted exclusively to the well know Jewish anti-Zionist movements such as Satmar and Neturei Karta. There are in fact many Jewish movements, groups and organizations whose ideology regarding Zionism and the so-called "State of Israel" is that of the unadulterated Torah position that any form of Zionism is heresy and that the existence of the so-called "State of Israel" is illegitimate. No one has had to create any antagonism between our Torah and Zionism because such antagonism exists by virtue of the essence of Judaism itself, which can never tolerate the heresy of Zionism. Zionism is wrong from the Torah viewpoint, not because many of its adherents are lax in practice or even anti-religious, but because its fundamental principle conflicts with the Torah. Unfortunately, due to many undesirable factors, the view of Torah-true Jewry has been concealed from the general public. http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ ANTI-ZIONIST ORTHODOX JEWS HOLD PRESS CONFERENCE http://www.nkusa.org/ Internationsl Jewish anti=Zionist Network. http://www.ijsn.net/home/ But Jews,according to you do not exist! Did you read the websites? Jewish is a religion. These are religious Jews who actually practice Judaism. These are real Jews and they are saying that Zionism is heresy. I did not say that Jews do not exist. This is how you twist my words. I said that there is no race of people that are Jews. If you don't practice the religion you are not a Jew. Jews are not a race.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 11/26/11 08:28 AM
People who claim to be Jewish and whine because the are persecuted for their "religion" and are not not practicing Judaism are laughable.

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 08:30 AM
Re-read some of your Stuff! Unless you want to tell me that all the "Jewish" Bankers practice Judaism!

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 08:34 AM
Besides the Accounting in the OP-Link is even more Creative than the one for Slick Willies Non-Existent-Surplus!

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 11/26/11 08:34 AM
An Open Letter Regarding The 2010 U.S. Assembly of Jews: Confronting Racism & Israeli Apartheid. http://www.jewsconfrontapartheid.org/news/open-letter/

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 11/26/11 08:38 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 11/26/11 08:43 AM
Jews confronting Zionism Our Purpose, Goals, Assumptions & Expectations for the Assembly What is Zionism? Zionism is a political movement that supports the on-going project of colonizing Palestine for the purposes of building a state premised on Jewish nationalism. Therefore, a central goal of the current Zionist movement is to ensure that Israel maintains the maximum area in Palestine with the minimum number of Palestinians. Purpose: To gather together as anti-Zionist Jewish (AZJ) activists committed to social justice and to challenging racism, colonialism and imperialism- first and foremost by contributing to efforts to overcome Zionism and decolonize Palestine. The Assembly hopes to provide a forum to share political perspectives, campaigns and other activities, culture and ritual, and build relationships toward collective work. Through building assessment of the current moment in the US and international Palestine solidarity movement, larger social justice movements and political context, we hope to build a shared direction for anti-Zionist Jewish organizing in the United States. This is in the interest of making our work more effective. You are welcome to join us We welcome all who are interested in supporting the organizing of anti-Zionist Jews as part of the broader Palestine solidarity movement and anti-racist, anti-imperialist organizing in the United States. However, the Assembly is oriented toward Jews confronting Zionism. We also welcome those who are critical of Zionism and interested in learning more about anti-Zionist Jewish activism. However, we ask that those who are still in a process of rejecting Zionism to participate as observers. Finally, we welcome the participation and contributions of academics and intellectuals, but stress that the focus of the Assembly is on activism and organizing and the application of politics into practice. Assumptions: We share an explicit commitment to supporting Palestinian self-determination and to anti-Zionist, anti-racist, and anti-imperialist politics and practice (a rejection of Zionism). Our anti-Zionist politics and practice are part of and reflect our commitment to broader liberation movements. We support the 2005 Palestinian Civil Society call for full boycott, divestment and sanctions and the demands outlined in the call. We want to leverage the power of anti-Zionist Jewish voices and organizing while challenging the privileging of them. We organize against racism, cultural oppression, and the invisibilizing of Jews of North African, African and Asian descent and of working class Jews. We seek to decentralize white, European, Ashkenazi Jewish culture, history, Judaism and experience, while making more visible the true plurality of the histories and experiences of Jews. Our points of references for anti-Zionist Jewish organizing are the Palestinian grassroots and civil society movement and anti-racist, immigrant and indigenous rights, anti-war, and anti-imperialist movements in the United States. We orient around the demands of Palestinian civil society. We do not organize to gain the approval of, or for legitimacy in relationship to, Jewish popular opinion, liberal Zionist organizations, or US public opinion. These are all places we hope to influence over time but not opinions that we consider when making decisions about our politics, messaging, or work. Our work is a reflection of our belief that the dismantling of Zionism and Israel is in the best interest of Jewish communities and Judaism. We reject alliances with anti-Jewish racists, white supremacists, and Nazi holocaust deniers. http://www.jewsconfrontapartheid.org/about/

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 11/26/11 08:42 AM
Jewish challenges to Zionism on the rise in the US Gabriel Ash, Emily Katz Kashawi, Mich Levy and Sara Kershnar The Electronic Intifada 14 June 2010 In June 2010, two opposite ends of the Jewish political spectrum will vie for one historical moment. As Israel and the Zionist movement struggle to maintain their century-long pull on Jewish minds, a new project is emerging to rechart the course away from Zionism and toward embracing a renewed commitment to a shared humanity. read the article here: http://electronicintifada.net/content/jewish-challenges-zionism-rise-us/8878#.TtEWdWNNWyE

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 11/26/11 08:42 AM
An Open Letter Regarding The 2010 U.S. Assembly of Jews: Confronting Racism & Israeli Apartheid. http://www.jewsconfrontapartheid.org/news/open-letter/

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 11/26/11 08:48 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 11/26/11 08:51 AM
Family of 12 faces eviction in East Jerusalem “Absentee property” Somehow, despite Mohammed’s 48 years of residence in this house, and despite the fact there are legal documents clearly stating that the land is owned by the Somrein family, the land has been declared absentee property and thus subject to confiscation. The property has been defined as such because Hajj Musa’s direct descendants — his children and grandchildren — live in the United States, the United Arab Emirates and Jordan. Mohammed’s status as Hajj Musa’s nephew has been completely overlooked, and his lifetime residence on the property, with the consent of the children of Hajj Musa, disregarded. Though this could never happen in any normal country, under Israeli rule, all absurd things seem possible for Palestinians. After Hajj Musa’s death, the land was transferred to the Custodian of Absentee Property. He went on to transfer custody of the land to the Israel Development Authority, which transferred the land to the Jewish National Fund (JNF). http://electronicintifada.net/content/family-12-faces-eviction-east-jerusalem/10618#.TtEXpGNNWyE

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 11/26/11 08:50 AM
Jews are people who practice the religion. They exist. Other "Jews" are referred to as "so-called Jews" by a lot of people. They are those who call themselves Jewish. It is not against the law to call yourself Jewish apparently. I guess I could do the same.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 11/26/11 08:55 AM
Besides you said that what I think about who is Jewish counts for nothing. I agree. But its still my opinion. If Jewish is a religion, then if you don't practice the religion, then you are not Jewish in my opinion. But as you said, my opinion means nothing to the world. I agree. Its still my opinion, and I am still anti-Zionists. I agree with the real Jews that the state of Israel is illegitimate.