Today's movies and television shows often bring up these issues in an effort to show justification for being the tough guy who tortures someone for information. I suspect that these movies are an effort to change people's way of thinking to support using these tactics in our defense.

Defense against what you might ask.

A: The bad guy.

Who is the bad guy?

The "bad guy" is whoever they point to as the bad guy. Right now, it is a made up enemy called "terrorist."

Al Qaeda does not exist. Americans invented that idea.

Documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk

Top Ranking CIA Operatives Admit Al-qaeda Is a Complete Fabrication:

http://polidics.com/cia/top-ranking-cia-operatives-admit-al-qaeda-is-a-complete-fabrication.html

BBC’s killer documentary called “The Power of Nightmares“. Top CIA officials openly admit, Al-qaeda is a total and complete fabrication, never having existed at any time. The Bush administration needed a reason that complied with the Laws so they could go after “the bad guy of their choice” namely laws that had been set in place to protect us from mobs and “criminal organizations” such as the Mafia. They paid Jamal al Fadl, hundreds of thousands of dollars to back the U.S. Government’s story of Al-qaeda, a “group” or criminal organization they could “legally” go after. This video documentary is off the hook…

And concerning my remark below:

"And if you are a Christian, shame on you, Satan has your soul. "

What I mean is this, If you claim to be a Christian, yet you support allowing our government representatives to arrest and torture suspects for information, then shame on you.

If Christianity is about love and compassion and you, out of fear, allow your representatives to use cruelty and torture, then you have taken up with Satan.

And you still brag about Christians who would sooner die and be tortured to death before they would renounce their savior. If that is true, I would say that is bravery.

Yet in allowing your own fear of alleged "terrorists" to get the best of you, you give your representatives (representing YOU) the power to torture suspects.

I will say that I think that is cowardly and you have surrendered to the dark side. IE: Satan has your soul.

I am christian. I have never been in the position to weigh the lives of hundreds over the lives of one. I have never been in a position to have to prevent a catastrophe.

I believe in love and compassion, and I believe human life to be sacred, but I dont believe inaction serves much purpose, so I cant be the judge of which action someone chooses , when harm or death are an unavoidable end.

IF A will get someone harmed
and B will get someone killed

Given that choice, I have to pick A, and I dont fault others who do the same when faced with such difficult choice,,,

Since 9-11 allowed the Patriot Act to be pushed through Congress and nobody did or said anything about how it took away our rights.

Now the NSA can call anyone they want "a terrorist" including "domestic terrorist" which gives them the right to arrest you, without letting you call a lawyer, and even the right to torture you if they so chose to do so.

Pretty much the reasone people are on the streets. No we didnt get the change we wanted at the ballot box, dont expect to get the change we need this election cycle either. I expect things to go on and on untill even free speach will get you on a terrorist watch list.

I don't know what you mean by A and B, but torturing a suspect in the hope that they "might" get some information is still wrong.

By giving your government representatives the right to torture anyone, you are giving them the right to torture you if you are suspected to be involved. Not proven to be involved... just suspected.

By approving of this as a government policy, you have joined the side of Satan.. (In Christian terms)

let me explain A and B

You are a parent, for instance
neighbors saw a visiting relative , that you have information has a bit of a temper on times, walking down the street with your child

your relative is in your home, with blood on his shirt, but your child is nowhere around

now, you can do NOTHING, but politely ask questions, and take the chance that your child is somewhere hurt and possibly dying (option B)

or you can threaten and possibly HARM this relative a little in hopes that he will lead you to the child before they die from exposure, lack of treatment,,etc,,,(option A)

as a christian, my only options will be that someone is either harmed (this relative if I chose to get aggressive), or someone will DIE (my child , if I choose to try to be nice about it to no success)

when faced with one scenario, my child dies
when faced with the other, my child lives but someone gets 'harmed'

as a christian, I certainly have the choice to just let my child die

but as a parent, I am not about to, without feeling somewhat responsible for letting it happen

and ID rather be responsible for one 'harmed' but still living person
than for another ones DEATH

OMG its never like that in the real world. I think I saw it on a movie once.

NEVER? really?

what do you think the military has to do to protect and serve?

The example you gave has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

The issue is should we, the people, sanction and approve the right for our government representatives to use torture (or waterboarding)
as a regular practice.

I am not interested in what YOU personally may or may not do to save your child. That is your personal choice and your Karma.

It does not give this power of torture as a policy to your government.

What we have are people snitching out enemies, them being picked up and shipped to Abu Graib being tortured i nthe most grusome ways you can imagine. We have photos that show rape and sodemy bloody nude bodies (Graphic Warning) http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2008/02/gallery_abu_ghraib

Its not some childlike ideal situation we are talking about.

Anyhow what would you admit to under extreme torture? Probably just about anything over time.

I think in the event of war, we should do what needs to be done to protect our people if such a threat arises. However if we are at war over resources then we should follow the ethics of what this country was founded on. Having been overseas for awhile, i can honestly say, nobody truley can comprehend or understand the meaning of war and what we have to do to protect and serve. Were supposed to be there to protect our own lands from tyranny, yet while were over there we also have to protect and serve the society of people around us while trying to survive at the same time. So, i guess the answer to your question, "anything we have to."

I dont know how to even quantify a 'regular' practice

I am supporting that they have the OPTION , when its necessary to save lives, to inflict temporary harm,,or discomfort

I sanction them to protect LIVES, absolutely

whatever protecting a LIFE involves in each situation (short of death or permanent harm), I aupport

Im not supporting RAPE or sodomy. I was referring to the practice of 'waterboarding' which, as described in this thread anyhow, does not actually cause physical permanent damage.

I am sorry to hear that.

You have joined the dark side then.

I wish you could visit and spend some time in some of those places and maybe even volunteer to be waterboarded yourself to see how "harmless" you actually think it is.

The sad thing is, the people who do these things, (torture) are above the law and above our government's control anyway. They will be doing this stuff anyway, even if we do not agree to give our government the official right to waterboard people.

But to give this kind of power over to your representative government willingly, is the beginning of the creation of a monstrous government similar to the Third Reich. It will be called "The Fourth Reich" probably.

With the Patriot Act, they already have the power to do this.

All because people are afraid of "terrorists" which are a huge fabricated lie in the first place.

You are being manipulated.

In these times you must rely on your own compassion and moral values and stop letting people terrorize you into being afraid of "terrorists" and stop letting people talk you into giving them permission to violate your human rights.

Remember James Bond?

He had the licence to kill for her majesty's secret service.

The CIA and the Mossad also.... licence to KILL.

These "secret agencies" are OWNED and protected BY THE COMPANY.

THE COMPANY also owns the United States of America, which is a corporation, and they also employ or "own" the politicians, who are nothing more than employees of the company.

The President of the United States is the President of the corporation of the United States of America, which is owned by THE COMPANY. The company owns and controls the CIA, Mossad, and the Secret Service etc. etc. etc....

They also created the idea of "terrorists" and invented Al-Qaeda.

I'm not even going into who owns THE COMPANY. But we do know who they are.

I agree with what you are saying. I have seen with my own eyes what a terrorist bomb can do and it had quite the impact on me. The Alqueda are certainly as real as those bombs that killed Canadian Troops in Afghanistan while trying to rebuild roads and schools; as well as making it safe for women to attend school. The only good thing is that the Alqueda is aging and at least in Afghanistan; they are finding it hard to recruit the younger generation. As for torture; if it need be done to save hundreds or million of lives; I would certainly support it. At present; there are 150 countries that still use torture to extract information; so I don't feel the finger pointing should be directed at the United Sates. Most people are lucky that they haven't seen the terror, death, and damage that terrorism has done as they sit safe and sound in their own homes screaming about how wrong torture is. I think one would have a different perspective if they actually were there picking up the pieces after a terrorist attack. However this is just my opinion based on what I have experienced.

I do not condone Terrorism.

Question.

What is your take on 23 days of bombing with sophisticated weapons on a contained population who had nowhere to go. Did those people feel terror?.

Al Qaeda does not exist.

War exists, we all know that.
Terrorism is a buzz word.

Al-qaeda Is a Complete Fabrication:



Documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk

Top Ranking CIA Operatives Admit Al-qaeda Is a Complete Fabrication:

http://polidics.com/cia/top-ranking-cia-operatives-admit-al-qaeda-is-a-complete-fabrication.html

BBC’s killer documentary called “The Power of Nightmares“. Top CIA officials openly admit, Al-qaeda is a total and complete fabrication, never having existed at any time. The Bush administration needed a reason that complied with the Laws so they could go after “the bad guy of their choice” namely laws that had been set in place to protect us from mobs and “criminal organizations” such as the Mafia. They paid Jamal al Fadl, hundreds of thousands of dollars to back the U.S. Government’s story of Al-qaeda, a “group” or criminal organization they could “legally” go after. This video documentary is off the hook…