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| Topic: Is Waterboarding Torture? | |
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Some people claim it did shake some useful Info lose,others claim it didn't!
Guess we will never know! Would be interesting what "Treatment " those Chechnyan Terrorists received from the Russian FSB! But let the US do it,and very one in this world and their Uncle cry foul! 
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!! 
So anyone arrested can be waterboarded for information? Do you have any idea how many people are arrested under the "Patriot Act" guidelines each year? They can lable ANYONE a terrorist they see fit, invade their home (without a warrant), no due process, no lawyer, no rights....and you want to allow waterboarding too? Forgive me..... haven't we given, or should I say, haven't they TAKEN enough of our liberties, freedoms and rights already? What next? Warrantless executions? Forgot, Obummer already did that! Don't read your own meaning into what I wrote...And yes, I do have a pretty good idea how many people are arrested under the Patriot Act "guidelines" each year....It does not change my opinion.... 
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Some people claim it did shake some useful Info lose,others claim it didn't! Guess we will never know! Would be interesting what "Treatment " those Chechnyan Terrorists received from the Russian FSB! But let the US do it,and very one in this world and their Uncle cry foul!
I personally would like to think we are more civil or reasonable than other countries, but THIS would make us no better than the worst of them! |
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Some people claim it did shake some useful Info lose,others claim it didn't! Guess we will never know! Would be interesting what "Treatment " those Chechnyan Terrorists received from the Russian FSB! But let the US do it,and very one in this world and their Uncle cry foul!
Not only cry foul, but if you don't jump on that bandwagon, you get insulted....... 
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!!
So anyone arrested can be waterboarded for information? Do you have any idea how many people are arrested under the "Patriot Act" guidelines each year? They can lable ANYONE a terrorist they see fit, invade their home (without a warrant), no due process, no lawyer, no rights....and you want to allow waterboarding too? Forgive me..... haven't we given, or should I say, haven't they TAKEN enough of our liberties, freedoms and rights already? What next? Warrantless executions? Forgot, Obummer already did that! Don't read your own meaning into what I wrote...And yes, I do have a pretty good idea how many people are arrested under the Patriot Act "guidelines" each year....It does not change my opinion....
I respect your opinion but am definately in opposition of it!
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Some people claim it did shake some useful Info lose,others claim it didn't! Guess we will never know! Would be interesting what "Treatment " those Chechnyan Terrorists received from the Russian FSB! But let the US do it,and very one in this world and their Uncle cry foul!
I personally would like to think we are more civil or reasonable than other countries, but THIS would make us no better than the worst of them! Well I guess that is where the difference lies, I DO think we are civil and reasonable in this country.. |
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!!
So anyone arrested can be waterboarded for information? Do you have any idea how many people are arrested under the "Patriot Act" guidelines each year? They can lable ANYONE a terrorist they see fit, invade their home (without a warrant), no due process, no lawyer, no rights....and you want to allow waterboarding too? Forgive me..... haven't we given, or should I say, haven't they TAKEN enough of our liberties, freedoms and rights already? What next? Warrantless executions? Forgot, Obummer already did that! Don't read your own meaning into what I wrote...And yes, I do have a pretty good idea how many people are arrested under the Patriot Act "guidelines" each year....It does not change my opinion....
I respect your opinion but am definately in opposition of it!
So what would you do if YOU had to make the decision? |
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I fought for the freedoms of this country, with honor and pride, and now those for whom I fought are allowing them to be usurped! You bet I will take offense when the people throw away EVERY soldiers gift to them! Torture is wrong! The patriot act is unconstitutional, against liberty and freedom! |
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Some people claim it did shake some useful Info lose,others claim it didn't! Guess we will never know! Would be interesting what "Treatment " those Chechnyan Terrorists received from the Russian FSB! But let the US do it,and very one in this world and their Uncle cry foul!
I personally would like to think we are more civil or reasonable than other countries, but THIS would make us no better than the worst of them! I normally don't use this argument,but suppose it was your Family's well-being that's on stake? Do you think you'd get that same Civility and Rationality from the Perps? |
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!!
So anyone arrested can be waterboarded for information? Do you have any idea how many people are arrested under the "Patriot Act" guidelines each year? They can lable ANYONE a terrorist they see fit, invade their home (without a warrant), no due process, no lawyer, no rights....and you want to allow waterboarding too? Forgive me..... haven't we given, or should I say, haven't they TAKEN enough of our liberties, freedoms and rights already? What next? Warrantless executions? Forgot, Obummer already did that! Don't read your own meaning into what I wrote...And yes, I do have a pretty good idea how many people are arrested under the Patriot Act "guidelines" each year....It does not change my opinion....
I respect your opinion but am definately in opposition of it!
So what would you do if YOU had to make the decision? That is what prisons are for! They are not ment for non-violent offenders like teenage pot smokers! |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Mon 11/14/11 02:00 PM
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Some people claim it did shake some useful Info lose,others claim it didn't! Guess we will never know! Would be interesting what "Treatment " those Chechnyan Terrorists received from the Russian FSB! But let the US do it,and very one in this world and their Uncle cry foul!
I personally would like to think we are more civil or reasonable than other countries, but THIS would make us no better than the worst of them! I normally don't use this argument,but suppose it was your Family's well-being that's on stake? Do you think you'd get that same Civility and Rationality from the Perps? More people are killed by perscription drugs, alcohol and cigarettes, than the total number of terrorist acts in a lifetime! What are the chances I might ask? They are VERY random and rare! Other than the "lie" of the plots they have uncovered, how many attacks have we had in the US in the last 50 years? |
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I fought for the freedoms of this country, with honor and pride, and now those for whom I fought are allowing them to be usurped! You bet I will take offense when the people throw away EVERY soldiers gift to them! Torture is wrong! The patriot act is unconstitutional, against liberty and freedom! Am I right in saying that George Bush and Dick Cheney never served in the armed forces. |
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!!
So anyone arrested can be waterboarded for information? Do you have any idea how many people are arrested under the "Patriot Act" guidelines each year? They can lable ANYONE a terrorist they see fit, invade their home (without a warrant), no due process, no lawyer, no rights....and you want to allow waterboarding too? Forgive me..... haven't we given, or should I say, haven't they TAKEN enough of our liberties, freedoms and rights already? What next? Warrantless executions? Forgot, Obummer already did that! Don't read your own meaning into what I wrote...And yes, I do have a pretty good idea how many people are arrested under the Patriot Act "guidelines" each year....It does not change my opinion....
I respect your opinion but am definately in opposition of it!
So what would you do if YOU had to make the decision? That is what prisons are for! They are not ment for non-violent offenders like teenage pot smokers! I didn't make myself clear....If you held the lives of innocent people in your hands but you needed to torture someone in order to save them, what would you do?....Just curious... |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Mon 11/14/11 02:03 PM
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!!
So anyone arrested can be waterboarded for information? Do you have any idea how many people are arrested under the "Patriot Act" guidelines each year? They can lable ANYONE a terrorist they see fit, invade their home (without a warrant), no due process, no lawyer, no rights....and you want to allow waterboarding too? Forgive me..... haven't we given, or should I say, haven't they TAKEN enough of our liberties, freedoms and rights already? What next? Warrantless executions? Forgot, Obummer already did that! Don't read your own meaning into what I wrote...And yes, I do have a pretty good idea how many people are arrested under the Patriot Act "guidelines" each year....It does not change my opinion....
I respect your opinion but am definately in opposition of it!
So what would you do if YOU had to make the decision? That is what prisons are for! They are not ment for non-violent offenders like teenage pot smokers! I didn't make myself clear....If you held the lives of innocent people in your hands but you needed to torture someone in order to save them, what would you do?....Just curious... Out spy, capture and imprison. Like it was done BEFORE Bush! If you can't trust your gov't to do that, then why would you trust then with a tool like torture? |
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!!
So anyone arrested can be waterboarded for information? Do you have any idea how many people are arrested under the "Patriot Act" guidelines each year? They can lable ANYONE a terrorist they see fit, invade their home (without a warrant), no due process, no lawyer, no rights....and you want to allow waterboarding too? Forgive me..... haven't we given, or should I say, haven't they TAKEN enough of our liberties, freedoms and rights already? What next? Warrantless executions? Forgot, Obummer already did that! Don't read your own meaning into what I wrote...And yes, I do have a pretty good idea how many people are arrested under the Patriot Act "guidelines" each year....It does not change my opinion....
I respect your opinion but am definately in opposition of it!
So what would you do if YOU had to make the decision? That is what prisons are for! They are not ment for non-violent offenders like teenage pot smokers! I didn't make myself clear....If you held the lives of innocent people in your hands but you needed to torture someone in order to save them, what would you do?....Just curious... Out spy, capture and imprison. Like it was done BEFORE Bush! If you can't trust your gov't to do that, then why would you trust then with a tool like torture? That's not what I asked you..... |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens?
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When I was in Nam, we paid for info, and got it! We protected 3 villages from our base. There were "incidents" with the cong, but never to much avail counting the village as the "whole" in the equation. We would then hunt the cong down and kill or capture them. You've never heard that you catch more flies with sugar? |
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There is a big difference in the opinions of the GOP candidates concerning waterboarding. Some feel it is illegal torture, some say they would implement this procedure if in the white house. I think anything that puts the fear of god in you (so to speak) is a form of terrorism and torture. What say you? what i say is of little cosequence. we have laws because we all rarely agree on what should and should not be. having said that, i think where aggressive interrogation ends and torture begins is not well defined in a legal or a moral/ethical sense. waterboarding is extremely uncomfortable and terrifying, so i here anyway, but so can depravation of sleep which is a common interrogation technique. neither does permanent physical harm. i would not want to be calling the shots when it came to interrogating a suspect when the information sought would be in the interest of saving lives. but i can see that tough choices are often presented to interrogators and policies regarding such tactics should be decided by people more informed than myself. fortunately, though not perfect, we have a fair representative republic as our governing system in america and my view is we mostly, not always, take the moral and ethical path when it comes to things like this. good enough for government work you might say. I agree completely with this. I am fairly non judgemental on the topic because of the stakes at hand. On the one hand, I think it can and probably does backfire and harm people to put then through pain to get an answer, because they probably will often just make one up or say what they think you want to hear, even if its not true. On the other hand, I think that extreme cases and drastic times when there is an issue of needing information quickly to save lives, drastic things probably need to be done. I truly would not want to be the one making those decisions. |
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Edited by
Conrad_73
on
Mon 11/14/11 02:18 PM
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I fought for the freedoms of this country, with honor and pride, and now those for whom I fought are allowing them to be usurped! You bet I will take offense when the people throw away EVERY soldiers gift to them! Torture is wrong! The patriot act is unconstitutional, against liberty and freedom! Am I right in saying that George Bush and Dick Cheney never served in the armed forces. |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? I think with citizens it is a different scenario, usually. Nothing is absolute. However, in cases where the point is to solve a crime that is already COMMITTED, there is no issue of time, not the same urgency as there is in trying to PREVENT a crime which will lead to multiple deaths. Then there is also the geography where the resources, manpower, and cooperation are already there, which makes it a little bit easier to merely 'investigate' further to prevent the crime. |
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