Morningsong I know you believe that, but it looks like the easy road to me. You don't have to do anything good or righteous in service to God or humankind, you can live your life as a criminal all your life and on your dying bed you open your heart and accept Jesus and bam! you are welcomed into heaven.

Too easy and it looks like it is designed for lazy people who want a short cut to heaven.

Anyone who loves knows the difference between doing something (a job) because you have to and doing something because you want to and are doing it with and out of love. This is no big secret.

EXACTLY.

Religion is abour HAVING to....

Relationship is about WANTING to....


No big secret...at all.

NO ONE can EARN their way to God ,by trying to

do good works( religious works done in order to please

God )......it is ONLY thru Accepting the Free Gift of Grace that

God offers us......

no other way.


THEN ... good works WILL ALWAYS FOLLOW in that saved person's

life , because the person( being SAVED now), has a new

heart beating within).



Nite now...

But how can you actually choose to love if you are being FORCED to with penalty of death? It doesn't work. This is STILL religion no matter how you wanna twist it.

That would be correct.

Have a great night, Morning!

Cowboy wrote:






Ok Cowboy....the above is one of the errors I am

talking about:


A few months ago, you stated that you believed Jesus to be OUR

God; BUT you ALSO stated then, that you ALSO believed that

God The FATHER to be an ENTIRELY SEPARATE GOD from Jesus.


And it sounds like you are still saying the same thing now,

according to your recent post (quoted above).



Cowboy, Jesus and the Father are NOT 2

SEPARATE ENTITIES........ but they ARE 2 separate PERSONS

WITHIN ONE GOD.

And the Holy Spirit makes up the 3rd person .

Father Son, Holy Spirit are the 3 PERSONS in ONE GOD.

NOT 3 entities .......BUT 3 persons....and all 3 persons make

up ONLY ONE GOD ALMIGHTY.

or

ONE ENTITY.

or

ONE SUPREME BEING.

Point being......there is ONLY ONE GOD that we serve.

NOT 3 Gods (or 3 Entities).....

NOT 2 Gods ( or 2 Entities)

BUT

ONLY


ONE GOD ( or 1 ENTITY)!!!


THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD .


ONLY ONE !!!

You too,Pimpwagn23.

Look at all the pages!

You are all arguing still at cross purposes. You all believe in
living an ethical and holy life. You all worship the same God.
Yet, you do not find common ground. One says "believe in Jesus,
accept him into your hearts and you will be saved" to others who
say "I have accepted the ways of Jesus already and live a
beautiful and ethical life and feel God spiritually."

Then another says "Your One God is a Bully" with the response "No!
My God is Love and Light!" Then a disagreement pointing to a variety
of misinterpretations of the bible.



Then it goes like "My God is more Love and Light than your God"
over and over again.

How silly is that?!?!

Jesus is the way. Everyone here accepts that. That's enough for me.
He is the Tao. He also taught Judaism and taught and believed in
the God of the Hebrews. It is in basic theological agreement with
the way of the Tao. Muslims believe in the same God too. The
Abrahamic God is identical in characteristics to a Pantheistic
description of God.

So it all boils down to "I don't like the fashion in which your
holy book describes the same God we both believe in - So I think
you are wrong and I am right"

And then "You will never get to heaven without accepting Jesus
even though you have already said you accepted Jesus"

It is all high comedy!

Why don't you all just agree that you are worshipping the same God
and give up on all this vengeful bullying God garbage. Nowhere in
the OT - which is what Jesus taught does it say that since no if
you do something wrong then God is gonna fry you in hell and damn
you for all eternity rather than forgive you for your mistakes. And
none of the Muslims, Jews or Christian believe that God is a vengeful
bully but rather an infinitely forgiving holy presence of Love and Light
consistent with the beliefs of Buddhists, Taoists, Wiccans and Pantheists.



God does not care what religion you observe, which rituals or what
holidays you have. God accepts that humans make mistakes and has
an infinite willingness and capacity for forgiveness and does not
bully anyone. In fact, God has no negative attributes. So stop the finger
pointing and claiming that your view of God is superior to someone else's
vision of the same infinite, caring, just, loving God and instead love
these other people as they are. As God would have you love them.



These are your sisters and brothers and they love the same God.
Except the atheists and maybe the agnostics. But God loves and
forgives them too. They just don't know it.

Hey Slowhand........who says we are

arguing here.......

we are not arguing.....


we are just "Discussing"

Well discussing the arguments then...

The God of the OT was Jesus' God and has the
same characteristics as the Pantheist God and
The Tao and Buddha. Yet some try to laud one
over the other and say to one group that because
of this or that bible story that the other person's
One loving, forgiving, ever-present, eternal, kind,
just and charitable God is crucially different
somehow from the other's One loving, forgiving,
ever-present, eternal, kind, just and charitable
God.



Because the way some bible story has been translated
and described a couple thousand years ago.



Let's put it this way. Christianity means believing
in Jesus and that means believing in the God of Jesus
and believing in the message of Jesus and Mohammed
and all that is good.

So if you believe in those things you are a Christian
whether you want to call yourself that or not. But there
is no such thing as believing in Christ but not
being Christian. And if you don't like some particular
teaching or ritual of one or more observance of one or
more of the different branches of Christianity then your
disagreement is with those rituals or interpretations
and not with the concept of Christianity in general.

(((Group Hug)))

Not particularly disagreeing. Just want to point out one thing that struck me reading this. When the person chose to accept Jesus Christ, that person's heart changed for God eg., not sinning, no disobeying, ect. Accepting Jesus is merely the first step in this process. Yes, God calls the man first, but it is the person's choice to take the first step. Faith alone, by itself can not save a person.

That is why people loose their faith in Christ. Unless you wish to judge their relationship they had with Christ as being not real, false, or anything of such. But by what you say, no one would EVER loose their faith in Jesus. I mean, no I'm not totally disagreeing on you, we do become a new creation when we fully accept Jesus as lord. But it is not a total change, unless we ourselves allow it to happen.

Yes, there is one God we serve. We don't serve Jesus. We serve God the father through Jesus.

Exactly. In a discussion there are two sides of it, in every discussion. And they may not agree. That is what the discussion is for, to find a mutual agreement point. To learn, to teach, and to grow.

The laws Jesus gave us are not Jesus' laws alone.

MorningSong, that is precisely the 'scam' that became Christianity.

Can you not see, that this is just a man-made religion that is basically saying the following:

NO ONE can EARN their way to God ,by trying to

do good works( religious works done in order to please

God )......it is ONLY thru JOINING and SUPPORTING our religious CULT that you can get to God.

There is no other way!



It's the epitome of a religious cult that has taken that brainwashing scheme to the extreme.

Either JOIN OUR CULT and SUPPORT IT, or God will HATE YOU!

That is the brainwashing psychology behind this cult MorningSong.

There is not God who hates people or who REJECTS THEM simply because they don't fall for the Hebrew CULT.

It's a religious SCAM.

It started out with merely a "jealous God" who would not tolerate any other Gods before him.

In other words, it started out with a jealous CULT that would not tolerate any other CULTS, or religious views. It is the epitome of religious intolerance.

However the original religion wasn't working very well, and people (LIKE JESUS) were rebelling against it and teaching far better moral and spiritual principles.

They crucified Jesus for having spoken out against the cult and for having called the cult leader Hypocrites.

After that, there were a whole lot of rumors about Jesus and many people recognize that Jesus had indeed spoken out against a wrongful religious cult.

So the devious cult leaders WROTE the New Testament account of Jesus making him out to be the "Son" of their original jealous God and set it up to appear now that the ONLY WAY to get back to God is through Jesus which THEY now have the COPYRIGHT on via their doctrines. Doctrines that they forced onto people via sword point.

Either confess that Jesus is LORD and JOIN OUR CULT again, or you will be proclaimed to be a "heathen" or worse yet you might lose your property or your life, and you'll certainly be rejected by the church and as much of society as the church can influence.

Once you realize the scam aspect of this it becomes crystal clear that this is what it is.

~~~~~

The bottom line is really quite simple MorningSong. No truly righteous God would REJECT PEOPLE, or be mean and cruel to them, for simply for not believing in the superstitious rumors of other mortal men.

~~~~~

Think about what you're saying MorningSong.

You're really saying this:

No one gets to God unless they believe the Biblical rumors that were written by the Hebrews.

And God necessarily REJECTS anyone who does not believe in these rumors.

Does that truly make any sense at all?

This claim that it is the person who is rejecting God by not believing in Hebrew rumors is nonsense.

That would be like telling you that you are REJECTING ZEUS because you don't believe in Greek Mythology. That's baloney. You aren't 'rejecting' Zeus, you simply don't believe that he represents a true picture of God.

Well that precisely the very same thing that people who don't believe in the Hebrew rumors are doing.

It's the greatest LIE ever told that people who don't believe in a particular religion are "choosing to reject" some God.

That is indeed a LIE. It has no substance and holds no TRUTH!

Any cult that claims that if you don't join it and support it God will hate you is just using psychological coercion and emotional harassment in an attempt to brainwash people into fearing that if they reject the CULT that's somehow the same as rejecting God.

Christianity is the epitome of cults.

No God is going to hate anyone MorningSong for not supporting a particular religious cult. And it's truly sad that you feel that you need to support that kind of emotional and psychological harassment.

To not join and support the Christian myth DOES NOT constitute rejection of God.

That's the biggest LIE on Earth. And you're preaching it!

You may have a different approach to it from Cowboy, and you may have a better dream of how such a cult could work. But in the end, it's still just a man-made cult.

Don't hold this against Jesus. He was a VICTIM of the cult. He didn't create it. He actually stood up against it and was crucified for having stood up against it.

So keep your Jesus, but please, dump the cult.

There are many ways to God. And it's highly unlikely that Jesus ever said otherwise.

People point to the New Testament and say, "But Jesus said he is the only way,.... etc."

Baloney!

Jesus was DEAD when the New Testament was being written. Jesus didn't write the New Testament.

Jesus was being USED by the cult leaders to strengthen their cult. The very CULT that Jesus stood against.

Don't believe that the New Testament speaks for Jesus in verbatim detail. That's a huge part of the scam. That's what they want you to believe.

No God will hate anyone, or reject anyone, for not believing in the Christian scam MorningSong.

No it doesn't make sense, nor is it true. If you refuse to worship God, how is it then that God is the one turning away from this person? Say two people are standing side by side. Person A walks away, how is person B then blamed for turning away or walking away? God doesn't reject anyone, if you take the path to Heaven, you will get there. If you refuse to take the path, how is it again God's fault you didn't make it?

*disclaimer* You in this is not directly you Abra, is just a general you for the discussion.

The choices we have, I believe, in a spiritual sense are two choices.

To be or not to be.

Life or death.

Conscious energy or unconscious energy.

Even if your immortal personality (your soul) is smashed and "destroyed" it still remains as core energy in the cosmos.

Most people, if you ask them, will chose life over death.

Most entities will chose light over darkness.

The "harvesting of souls" is an uplifting of personalities (souls) to the next level of life. Its like going from first to second grade. The ones who do not pass, are just kept back until the can pass.

When the first graders graduate to the second grade, they do not kill all the ones who did not make it. They simply hold them back so they can try again.

Language is symbolic. Stories are symbolic. The Bible is symbolic. Jesus is a symbol for Life and light and love.

When a person chooses love and life, they have chosen Jesus symbolically whether or not they realize it or call themselves "Christians."

It works the same in any other religion or non-religion. If a person learns to love and wants to live a life of compassion for his fellow living beings, he has chosen life and his immortal soul will always move forward to the next level of consciousness.

Your person A and person B analogy makes no sense.

We're talking about totally FAITH BASED religion here.

To not believe in a FAITH BASED religion is not walking away from anyone. It's merely calling if for what it is - superstitious myths.

Are you "walking away from" and rejecting the Wiccan Goddess, and the Greek Zeus?

I don't think so. You simply don't believe in those FAITH BASED beliefs.

Well it's the same way with Christianity.

The only difference is that the Christians are so unbelievably arrogant that they try to claim that people who don't buy into their religion is "Rejecting God".

Like I say, that just a cheap religious brainwashing trick. It's basically an attempt to emotionally terrorize anyone who refuses to buy into the religion.

That's all it amounts to.

No truly righteous God could possibly be associated with such emotional terrorism. Such a God would himself need to be totally unrighteous to be involved in that sort of thing.

It can't be the design of a supreme God. Therefore it necessarily must be the psychological brainwashing scheme of mortal men.

Yes exactly.

As a metaphor for love and compassion the Jesus story works just fine.

But as soon as it's turned into the idol worship of Jesus as LORD it becomes a totally contradicting religion. It deteriorates very rapidly into nothing more than religious bigotry using Jesus as a battering ram at that point.