The verses you quoted don't say anything about any unforgivable sins.

Here's where you'll find that:

Matt.12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Blaspheme against the Holy Ghost is what the scriptures claim is the unforgivable sin, not denial of Jesus as the Christ.

Evidently you need to start looking into a lot of things a bit deeper.

Besides, a God who needs to "judge" people would be an inept God already. There would be no need for any judgments if the God were truly omniscient. There would be nothing to "judge". Either you are perfect, or you aren't. Period. No need to judge anything.

So the whole basis of the religion is absurd. And the idea that sins could even be "forgiven" is more absurd. That would imply a God who plays favorites. Forgiving some people and not others.

I realize that you are going to claim that it all depends on the sincerity of the person. But again, an omniscient God would already know that innately, so there would be no need to judge anyone.

Either you are perfectly sincere, or you aren't. Period.

This idea of a God who goes around having his own son nailed to a pole to "pay" for the sins of man is utterly absurd Cowboy.

Just think what that would mean for even one second.

That would mean that Jesus PAID for people to be INSINCERE!

Because clearly if they were already sincere in their own heart they would have passed.

The ONLY WAY that Jesus could have paid for someone's salvation would have been to pay for their insincerity.

If you are already pure of heart and sincere then Jesus would not need to "pay" for your sins, as you have already paid for them yourself.

On the other hand, if you are insincere, then what would be the point in Jesus even offering to "save" you?

The whole thesis behind Christianity cannot be made to work.

Either a person is sincere - and they would be eligible for forgiveness in their own right.

Or a person is insincere - in which case they would not be eligible for forgiveness even through Jesus.

So it's a fable that can't be made to work no matter how you slice it.

It necessarily has to be false. Continually supporting this nonsense does no one any good.

All it ends up doing is creating "Christian Bigots" who have been taught that because they have accepted Jesus as their "Savior" they are in some sort of special favor with God.

It's a religion that basically teaches favoritism and preaches that those who have no accepted that Jesus is "LORD" are somehow outside of the club.


In that sense it is indeed an exclusive bigoted CULT.

And here you are twisting these scriptures around to try to make out like denying that Jesus is lord is the unforgivable sin, when in fact that scriptures themselves don't even hold that to be true.

It's blaspheme against the Holy Spirit that is the unforgivable sin, not denial that Jesus was Christ, or lord or any other such nonsense.

This just goes to show how the whole collection of fables becomes twisted into extremely convoluted lies by religious zealots.

People actually become liars in an effort to support this cult and the various convoluted myths and rumors that are constantly being twisted out of it.

Why would he not have to judge? We do not live by destiny, our lives are not set in stone, our actions are not set in stone, they are unknown previous to doing them. So you never do anything wrong? You always do everything correctly and perfectly? You have no mistakes in your life? That is where Jesus offers forgiveness. He doesn't offer forgiveness to someone whom Murders someone, then asks for forgiveness, then murders, ect ect. Forgiveness of sins is for the mistakes, the things when we look back wish we hadn't done, the things we didn't mean to do, again mistakes. I'm glad to hear you never make a mistake though Abra :).

Well, I'm glad you heard that as well. That's news to me.

I wonder who started that rumor.



Well, again, if that's what we are being forgiven for, then what would be the point to Jesus?

Besides where was it ever written, "Thou shalt be perfect and thou shalt never make a mistake in life".

Such directives and commandments never existed at any point in either the old fables or the newer rumors of Jesus.

Moreover, if a person is already looking back over their life and wishing they hadn't done certain things, then this very act alone is the hallmark of a sincere heart.

Therefore no "righteous God" could possible condemn a sincere heart because that would be unrighteous.

So again, no need for Jesus at all.

It's the person themselves who is having a sincere heart. Not Jesus.

So they have earned their way to even on their very own merit.

Again, there's nothing to "judge". In fact, if a person themselves already has remorse over their past actions then they are the ones who is passing judgment on those actions to have been regrettable.

In fact, a lot of things that I regret about thing in my past wouldn't even qualify as "sins" in terms of what the Bible claims sins to be. So I'm far harder on myself than this religion claims that God would be.

In terms of actual "sins" according to the Bible I'm basically sin free. Especially if Jesus is said to be able to "wash away sins".

When I was a Christian I asked Jesus to come into my life and forgive me of my sins. It was his WORD that he would indeed do this for anyone who asks. Well, I had asked. Therefore if I had any "sins" at that point in my life they all would have been washed away by the metaphorical blood of Jesus.

Of course, having grown to maturity and having a better understanding now of that that would have actually meant I would have never done that. In fact, that very act is something that I have deep remorse over. I can't believe that I was so naive and stupid in my youth.

No, even if these fables were true I would necessarily have to reject this God's offer to have his son butchered on a pole to pay for my sins. I couldn't lower myself to that kind of immorality.

In fact, if that is the "price" that is required to gain entrance to that God's heaven, then I would gladly pass. I have no desire to go to any such place where the price of my entrance is having someone butchered on a pole for my sake.

In fact, if I actually felt that I was that bad, then I wouldn't want to go to that supposedly heavenly place anyway. Why would I want to go to a place where I don't even deserve to be? Especially if I have to condone having someone else pay a horrible fee for me to be there.

That would be the most ignorant and selfish thing I can imagine.

If I was that despicable I wouldn't even like myself! Much less expect anyone else to like me.

Nope, I want no parts of any supposed heavenly places if I can't earn my way in via my own merit.

So the Christian religion has nothing to offer me. Even if true, it would only represent a despicable demon posing as a "God".

I've said it so many times before but I can't help but say it again.

I would far rather that the truth of reality is mere atheism than to believe in the demented sick God described in the Bible, and especially in the Old Testament.

I want no parts of any such God.

But according to you, I would have EARNED my right to be in that heavenly place even on my own merit without Jesus. Because according to you all I need to do is have remorse for my mistakes, and that I do have. No question about that.

My mistakes may be quite trivial in comparison to many of the sins described in the Bible such as murder, stealing, adultery, etc. None the less I still have regrets over poor choices that I've made in my life. Even poor choices where, at the time, I had no way of knowing that better choices were even available.

So I even feel "regret" for things that were out of my control at the time.

I feel extreme remorse for the death of my own mother. Yet there was nothing I could do to prevent it.

I feel remorse and regret for many things that I had absolute no control over at all and couldn't have changed even if I wanted to!

If there is any righteousness in reality then I deserve to go to the highest most heaven possible. No Jesus required.

Jesus is who offers the forgiveness. Jesus is whom will judge us.

John 5:22

22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

His blood wasn't spilt to please the father. His blood was spilt to give us the gospel, to fulfil his dead of giving us the new covenant. It was man that took his blood. That is where his sacrifice plays in. His sacrifice wasn't to please the father, his sacrifice was to make it possible for you to make it to heaven. He gave his all to give us the knowledge we needed to achieve heaven. He gave his life for you so you would not have to.

I am not sure if you do this intentionally or if you just do it naturally. But I have not said that one time. The only way to receive forgiveness from Jesus is to repent of that sin in mention and to ask forgiveness of it from Jesus Christ himself.

Give it up Cowboy.

That wouldn't be righteous.

That would be nothing more than extreme egotism.

Either a person is sincere in their heart or they are not.

You're demanding that Jesus is an egotistical pig who would condemn people just because they didn't personally ask him for forgiveness.

You make Jesus out to be a sick egotistical pig.

I sure hope you don't think that you are doing the religion any favors, because after people talk with you they will come away thinking that Jesus is an absolute egotistical JERK.



~~~~~

The question is quite simple Cowboy.

Is this God a "RIGHTEOUS" God?

Or is this God an egotistical pig?

Make up your mind.

The Jesus that you CREATE is an egotistical pig.

You just make atheism seem all the more beautiful.

The Jesus that you CREATE is disgusting.

How will he forgive you if you did not ask? And why would he, you obviously don't want to be forgiven, for you didn't even give the smallest effort of asking.

Not only do you CREATE an extremely despicable Jesus, but evidently you even feel that you have been granted the right to JUDGE other people on his behalf.



The religion that you have CREATED from these ancient myths and rumors is truly disgusting Cowboy, and obviously highly egotistical to the point where you feel that you have the right to JUDGE other people based on the monster Jesus that you have CREATED in your own mind.

I judged you not, I didn't judge anyone. Please enlighten us with this judgement I made. In the statement you quoted/responded to especially only said how are you to receive forgiveness if you do not at least ask for it first. I said nothing even remotely judgemental towards you.

Oh please.

"you obviously don't want to be forgiven"

Who are you do JUDGE whether or not someone wants to be forgiven of something?

"for you didn't even give the smallest effort of asking."

Who are you do JUDGE whether or not as person has given any effort toward asking a higher being for forgiveness, etc?

You are making a lot of JUDGMENTS about someone that you don't even know anything about.

All for what purpose?

Just to spread hatred in the name of an egotistical Jesus?

You are demanding that Jesus is the most unrighteous egotistical pig that ever walked the face of this planet. All based on your very own derogatory interpretations of ancient scriptures. Scriptures that no two theologians can even agree on when it comes to interpretations.

None of the Jews or Muslims even believe that Jesus was the Christ. Are you going to imply that they do not want to be forgiven and have never done anything toward asking the creator for forgiveness simply because they don't believe that Jesus was an egotistical pig?

All you do is use this religion as an excuse to use Jesus as a batter ram of hatred toward anyone who refuses to accept your derogatory interpretations of ancient Hebrew babble.

Here, look at this:


John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


Does that sound like the monster Jesus that you have created in your mind?

I think not.

The Jesus that you have CREATED in your own mind is a fabrication of your very own derogatory interpretations of scriptures.

According to John Jesus himself even stated "I came not to judge the world".

Yet all you ever do is attempt to portray Jesus as being the judge of the world.

This is in direct contradiction to words assigned directly to this demigod.

So it can't stand.

I made no judgement, I made a speculation, a conclusion of what YOU said. If I am wrong, this would be the time of place to correct me and not go off like this lol.


And try not taking verses out of context and include the affiliated verses with it please. The following verse goes as

48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

And the word that he has spoken is

Matthew 10:32-33

32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven
=================

And when speaking on a COMMUNITY forum, when someone says "YOU" in their statements it is not directed at you particularly. On a forum you and I are not having a discussion, the community is. We just happen to be the one's speaking. The ONLY time it is directly ment for you or directed at you is when and if your name is included in what is being said.

That is utter hogwash:

You specifically stated:

How will he forgive you if you did not ask? And why would he, you obviously don't want to be forgiven, for you didn't even give the smallest effort of asking.

And now you're trying to claim that this is directed to everyone on these forums in general?

So you are under the belief that everyone on these forums obviously doesn't want to be forgiven and that everyone on these forums didn't even give the smallest amount of effort of asking?



Cowboy, you are so inconsistent in everything that you say that you aren't even worth talking with.

Face it, you're attempting to use Jesus as an excuse to belittle other people and pass spiritual judgments on them.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nothing you have said or done here even remotely represents anything that the man named Jesus would have supported.

No I do not believe everyone is, nor am I inconsistent. All my discussions on are not WITH YOU. Yes technically they are, but I'm not replying to you. I'm replying to what is said.



Please elaborate and show some evidence of this claim. What are some verses that support your claim here? I can show you many scriptures on why I do what I do, now that you have brought Jesus into it, please back what you say.

I've already shown evidence for my claim.

I'm fully aware that the Bible can be used by hateful people to support their hatred of non-believers. I'm not surprised by this in the least.

Just because you can use these ancient texts to support twisted hateful rhetoric does not mean a thing. All this does is prove that the Bible is indeed riddled with contradictions and verses that can be used for hateful agendas.

I've already showed you were the man named Jesus himself had been attributed with stating that he did not come to judge the world.

You have already defiled those words using hate tactics.

I'm fully aware that these scriptures can be used to make Jesus out to be a hateful monster Cowboy. I don't need for you to prove that to me. It's EASY to hate.

Show me the LOVE Cowboy, not the hate.

Show me the RIGHTEOUSNESS, not the religious bigotry.

Show me the intelligence of a God who doesn't use blood, guts, and threats of hateful and harmful acts toward people who refuse to "love" him?

Convince me that this God is WORTHY of Love Cowboy.

Using the Bible to support religious bigotry and condemnation is meaningless, any hateful person can do that Cowboy.

Even Hitler used the Bible to support his actions toward the Jews.

Hate is easy it support in the name of Jesus Cowboy.

See if you can change that pattern and try hard to make it inviting rather than threatening to decent loving people.

Show me how I can LOVE this God and obtain this God's LOVE without having to cower down on my knees in the shame and disgrace of being a pathetic sinner who was the cause of this God to need to have his son butchered on a pole?

Can you do that?

Is there a way to this God through LOVE and LOVE ALONE without any need for shame, disgrace, blood and guts and crucifixion innocent people to pay for the SHAME and DISGRACE of others?

I know that you can't do this, because these collection of fables do not permit a truly LOVING picture of God. They are far better suited to hate tactics and disgrace and shame.

They know nothing of LOVE.

cool... so now all you have to do is explain why a "Lord God" is not mention in Genesis 1:1

Genesis 1:1
In The Beginning "God" created The Heavens and The Earth

so now Cowboy why isn't the term "The Lord God" mention in Genesis 1:1..

come on .....figure it out logically...you're almost there

I wonder if Jesus had this much trouble teaching his disciples?

John 3:17

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
------------

John 12:47

47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
==================

Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, or judge the world. He was not here to judge anyone. He was here to bring peace, to bring the promise of heaven, to bring us the new covenant between man and God. Judgement time is still to come.



There is no hate tactics or even any hate going on here. I'm not threatening you, I'm not saying hateful things toward you. Maybe you should look into why you take these things so personal, cause I don't say them as a personal attack. Again, we're just discussing a belief.



I have showed you the love. You automatically get mad and or upset like I'm personally attacking you.

bigotry
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

Why should Jesus tolerate people that worship other beings or things besides him? How would it be righteous for him to reward these people the same as he would reward a strong believer? Heaven is earned, it is earned through faith and works.

James 2:14

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:18
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:19
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 2:26
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

And more on the love as you asked

John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What more love could you ask for? God gave Jesus to us, so we could have ever lasting life. Jesus gave himself to us, so we could have ever lasting life. What more love could someone ask for besides someone dying for them?

Love is a two sided coin. You can not buy love, but love is earned. Love is earned with love. How can you expect someone to love you, when you don't love them? How can you expect someone to be there for you when you deny them in front of everyone? And again, these are general questions, just questions to think about.

And to continue on with the love. Why should God give us the chance to share in the joy of the paradise? The human race was kicked out of the paradise for disobedience. God has decided to give us a second chance. He's still pretty mad from the original disobedience, so he has made it a little bit harder this time. Before the only thing we weren't to do is eat of the tree of life. Which we clearly and blatantly screwed up with. But yet God doesn't forsake us, our father gives us a second chance through Jesus Christ that we might return to what we once lost because of our greed. God hasn't given up on us, God hasn't lost hope for us, God hasn't lost the love he has for us. God still tries to give us the paradise he originally created for us, that again WE screwed up. No you and I didn't screw that up, but us/we as the human race did screw it up and ate of the tree of life.It is through Jesus we have the opportunity to share in the joy of the paradise.

Saved from what?

I though you said that there aren't any threats? If we need to be saved from a wrathful God who is threatening to cast us into a place of eternal damnation, then we are indeed being threatened by this God.



These fables are riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies like this. Moreover, there would not have been any need to bring a "New Covenant" unless the previous covenant had been flawed or insufficient.

Therefore any story that has a God changing his mind about what his covenant with mankind should be is a story of a God who is unsure of himself and didn't get it right the first time.

So this very ideology flies in the face of what a supposedly all-perfect, all-wise, omniscient being should be. The very story itself is a contradiction in terms of the character that this supreme being is supposed to have.

That's a red flag right there that should instantly give us a heads-up to the fact that these stores are nothing more than the made up superstitious fables of men.




From my perspective you portray this religion in a very hateful manner. You are portraying Jesus to be someone who hates everyone who refuses to believe in him.

You may not mean to do this, but this is the end result of your style of ministry whether you realize it or not. You focus entirely on creating a situation where Jesus will hate and be mean to anyone who does not believe in these stories.



I have never seen anything come from you that I would classify as love. All I ever see you do is preach how Jesus will hate those who refuse to believe in him, and how he is justified in hating non-believers.



There you just did it again. You're attempting to justify intolerance and hatred in Jesus toward people who do not believe in him.

This is just yet another huge RED FLAGCowboy. This religion supposedly started out being about behavior and a God wanting people to be good. But now it has been deviously turned into something entirely differently.

Now it has become a story about a God who hatefully punishes anyone who simply refuses to believe that he exists.

It's a train-wrecked religion Cowboy.

It started out being about morals, and ended up being about a highly egotistical God who is supposedly justified in hating everyone who refuses to worship him.



That is a hate-filled ministry my friend. A ministry that is based entirely on a hateful intolerant and highly egotistical and selfish God.




There we go again with the "Save Him" crap.

Save him from what? There has to be a THREAT before someone can be saved from it. This is an extremely threatening religion that claims that everyone need to be "saved" from this horrible hateful egotistical godhead.




That's probably one of the rare statements that actually came from Jesus as printed. A Buddhist could have said this.



The devils "believe" in God?

Don't they KNOW?

My uncle was once asked what he would do if a devil came to him and offered him all the riches of the world. His answer was quite simple, he said, "I would then know that God exists".



What does this have to do with anything we're talking about?
A Buddhist could have said this.




First off if Jesus is indeed an eternal being who existed before creation and will preside as the King of Kings for all of eternity then it's meaningless to claim that he "gave his life" or "died" for anyone.

Jesus didn't give his life for anyone if he's going to be the eternal egotistical King who demands that everyone worship him for all of eternity.

So it's utter nonsense to even suggest that he gave his life for anyone.

Moreover, what would have been the purpose of this? Why would this have been necessary? There can be no formidable enemy that God had to appease or conquer before God can have his way. Therefore the only entity that could have been appeased by a bloody brutal crucifixion would have had the God himself.

Again, not a pretty picture of a supposedly all-righteous, all-wise God.

I see no wisdom in this whatsoever. A God who creates a universes where he has to be nailed to a pole by the objects of his creation in order to "save" them from his very won wrath is sicker than sick Cowboy.

There is no excuse for such sick demented behavior.

As a superstitious fictitious fable it doesn't even make sense, much less expecting someone to believe that it could actually be true.






I wouldn't want the "love" of the God you describe from your personal interpretations of the biblical scriptures.

I have no desire to be "loved" by a hateful demonic egotistical selfish God.

You may as well be asking me to condone the behavior of Hilter and worship and love him just to appease him so I can serve his perverted desires for the rest of my days and wallow in knowing that he supposedly loves me back.



I wouldn't do it. I would rather die.

Same thing goes for the biblical picture of God. I have absolutely no desire to acquire the "love" of such a sick perverted being.

How many times do I need to tell you. Atheism is a far more beautiful picture.

If the Biblical God somehow turned out to be true as described in the biblical scriptures my only request of it would be to make atheism become true for me!

Strike me out of existence altogether with a lightening bolt or something. If possible, make it so that I had never existed at all.

If the Biblical description of God is true Cowboy, then I am totally disappointed in our creator. I would have so much pity for this God that it would be impossible to worship it. All I would want to do is to HELP it to get better.

This biblical God himself is in dire need of a Goddess to show him the meaning of LOVE.

I read posts made by mortal women on these forums that exhibit far more love and understanding that these religious fables of the Hebrews.

It's crystal clear to me that all this amounts to is religious bigotry.

Either worship "Our God" or god to hell!

That's all it is Cowboy. It's just a man-made religious bigotry.

There is no "love" in it.

The Hebrews didn't even know what Love is!

They were male chauvinist pigs who used a make-believe God as an excuse to belittled and degrade their wives and daughters.

If they were living today we'd call them the Taliban and totally renounce their behavior as being "ungodly".

Yet here you are trying to convince me that our creator is like the Taliban!

Saved from death. Not saved from any threats. Saved from dying. Death is a punishment put on us through our disobedience. Jesus offers a way to be forgiven and offers life



Not true. The old covenant prophesied it's ending. That covenant wasn't suppose to last use for ever. It was already planned for the old to end and for the new to come about.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
 31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD

Just wanted you to know the reason I spend so much time in these forums discussing with you. It's not exactly to prove a point, it's not a mine's bigger then yours kind of thing. I discuss in here to try to reveal the truth to you and other's. You have forced your eyes closed because of the troubles of the world. You are hiding. I'm trying to show you the way out of this. A way out of your troubles and worries. I love you man.