What inanimate cause could create a non-eternal universe? Keep in mind that if the universe isn't eternal and there is no eternal creator, then it can't exist. Scientists now believe that the universe had a beginning and will have an end and not the big crunch either. The current idea is that a timeless singularity expanded to create the universe. What prompted the singularity to expand? How did it expand without time or space existing? In every other cause and effect situation, the cause doesn't wait before creating the effect! In causality, the cause and the effect come into existence at the same time. So if the singularity has been around forever, so should the universe. But we know the universe began to exist a finite period of time in the past, so the singularity hasn't existed forever.

Reason insists that everything that exists has a cause. So you say it was an natural process or event. So what caused that process or event? The chain of causality cannot be infinite, there has to be a beginning. Out of all of human experience, only God would fit as the first cause. The Greeks understood this hundreds of years before Jesus was born. It's still a problem and one which scientists aren't even able to tackle, because they have taken God out of the equation.

It is indeed a paradox.

It had to have been its own cause and continues in an infinite pattern.
Like a circle or figure 8. Infinity.

We are the eyes of infinity.

we simply haven't figured that out. yet. but we have figured out what has happened between a few milliseconds after the big bang occured until now. we don't know precisely what caused the big bang or what happened before the big bang. we don't even have a clue that this was the ONLY big bang. but our tool, hubble. etc., are improving each day.

Do you see that since the cause of the Big Bang is so irrational and antithetical to the laws of physics as we understand them, that the possibility of understanding the cause of the Big Bang is less than negligible? Reason and logic and science are all of this universe and pre-big bang is definitely not of this universe. That's not to say that since science will never have an answer, we shouldn't just say "God did it", but we shouldn't eliminate the possibility out of hand either.

If there was no space-time before the big bang, then the big bang happened outside of any spacetime, therefore the big bang is still happening this very moment.

God could simply be some scientist in some lab with a particle accelerator smashing things together and creating "big bangs."

(big to us, but tiny to him.)

That is no reason to give "God" a holy status of a magical being who wants us to worship him.

Causality demands a first mover. So even if we are in a bottled universe, what created the creators universe? At some point, you have to have a necessary (eternal and unchanging) entity that created everything.

Your suggestion simply moves things back a step, it doesn't answer the question.

But who created that eternal and unchanging entity?

...

He is Eternal because he has no Beginning or end

we don't know the cause of the big bang so how can it be irrational? of course nothing indicates that this is the only universe or the first universe or the last. when astrophysisicts refer to the universe they refer to the VISIBLE universe. that which we can see. we may never know the cause of the big bang. likely won't in fact. einstein, an avowed agnostic, said that the human mind can never really know anything absolutely. i think he may have been right. that the possibility of ever knowing the cause of the big bang is less than negligible makes knowing god even less a possibility. at least the big bang has evidence that can be tested using the strict scrutiny of the scientific method. what evidence is there to test for god???

That is because outside of spacetime, there is no time.

Infinity must move in a circle, or a figure eight.

Round and round.

Therefore God 'creates itself and itself creates God.

Humans are in there somewhere.

So instead of believing in the mythical eternal dude and the big bang why not throw an eternal infinate universe into the mix?

But wait how is that possible,well according to the Zeus looking mythical figure you worship,he is eternal so why can't the universe be? Solves the problem of the kaboom and a Zeus wanna be theory.

If you want to use "science" or "logic" for your reason of a disbelief in any god, then you have to go by what "science" tells us.

Science says the universe is NOT eternal...

Why can't what science cannot explain be attributed to something you can't understand? Forget all of the writings of men, can you leave open the possibilty of a god, or is your mind closed to that which you have no physical proof of existence?

I do have an open mind but i refuse to believe that everything that i see before me is only 6,000 years old,God is viewed in many ways hell some tribes worship birds as their gods which is fine go for it.My thing is,is that for someone to look me in the eyes and tell me some mythical being created everything,is rather humorous.Also God did speak to people and people in villages before he did his wraith according to a book,but i yet to hear him get on his worldwide intercom system and say anything.I don't necessarily have to see the dude just a simple hello would suffice.It ain't gonna happen though.

Here is what I think might be the case:

While the warped spacetime 3-D physical reality and universe is finite, the place from which it came is neither 3-D or finite.

Time,except within the spacetime projection of 3-D reality, does not exist, so everything is in a state of Infinite NOW. Infinite existence is the true attribute of the reality from which we came.

If "light" exists it is pure energy. It cannot be seen or reflected until there is someone to see it and something for it to reflect off off.

No, you don't have an open mind. You started spewing crap from books which I do not believe like it somehow strengthens your position.
Did you not read what I said? "Forget all of the writings of men, can you leave open the possibilty of a god"

Just a possibilty...



So let me try your strategy, OK?

I refuse to believe in the big bang without any proof of it's intial cause. The best we have now is Hawkings saying that all that would be needed is gravity and the big bang would be possible.
So, with no matter present, I refuse to believe in an imaginary gravity field which science says can't exist without matter.
There's no way I believe in some non-existant magical gravity field as I believe in logic and reason.
I bet you also expect me to believe you can win the lottery every day for the rest of your life, cause that's close to the odds that scientists estimate for the possibilty of life here on Earth.

Seriously, that's just plain ridiculous.

So, Peter-pan,

It is clear then, that you believe in a God and that a God created everything. Right?

Have you given any thought at all to how he did that?

Do you have a clue or an idea of any kind that would give you incite into this creator being and what he is like and how he created everything?

Picture a rose...

But that's exactly what you're saying and I ...



Peter claimed the same:



Who said anything about the universe not being eternal? Just because it may continue to expand and the galaxies and solar systems all go dim and die cold deaths doesn't mean the intermediary space (and therefore the universe as a whole) ceases to exist. Eternity in darkness is still eternity.



How do you know? Are you this eternal imaginary friend you keep talking about? You sit here and tell us that we can't know what caused the big bang and you're claiming to know the conditions prior to it. That's a bit sanctimonious, don't you think?



The expansion of the universe (observed) is proof enough of the big bang whether or not we know its cause.



He's a smart guy, you should listen to him. Since all matter displays gravity (however minute and difficult to detect for objects without a great amount of mass) and all matter was contained within the singularity that gave birth to the universe by means of the big bang, then gravity was plentiful and therefore the big bang was possible.



All matter was present in the singularity. It would have had the strongest gravity field ever since it contained all the matter in the universe.