Occam's Razor. The universe requires at least one god in order to exist. Occam's Razor suggests that it should be one god.

How is a God required? True use of Occam's Razor would be that since we (and every creature we've encountered) have evolved over millions of years, the same requirement would be placed on any 'God'. Since that 'God' would have undergone the same evolutionary requirements, it would more accurately be described as a more advanced sentient being ... and more importantly, there could not be JUST ONE of them.

What you are talking about is an "alien", not "God".

In order to create the universe, the creator must be apart from the universe. It's a logical contradiction to say that the creator created itself or that the creator had a beginning. Since the universe is composed of all matter and time, the creator must be timeless and formless. Since the universe has a definite beginning and will have an end (according to science), the creator must be a person (a sentient being) who decided WHEN and HOW to create the universe.

Actually Occam's Razor would favor atheism.

Occam's Razor favors the simplest theory that works.

Well, in order to imagine a God that creates a universe a person must first propose that a God came to be without a creator.

However, if they are going to make that assumption, then Occam's Razor would say to just imagine the universe popping into existence without a previous creator that also came from nowhere.

So Occam's Razor would actually favor atheism in this situation.

However, Occam's Razor truly can't be applied to either situation.

Occam's Razor is grossly misunderstood by the masses.

Occam's Razor simply say that if you have two workable theories and one is simpler than the other, then you should go with the simpler theory because obviously the more complex theory contains ideas that are superfluous.

However, BOTH theories need to actually WORK before Occam's Razor can be applied.

Since neither atheism nor an idea of a creator are "Workable" Occam's Razor cannot be applied.

Neither of these hypotheses explain anything. They are both just guess, and they both require magic.

So Occam's Razor can't be applied to either of them since neither of them actually offers a workable theory.

One speculates that a universe popped into existence from nothing.

The other one speculates that a God popped into existence from nothing.

They are on precisely equal footing at that point.

Of course most "God Myths" continue on to proclaim utterly absurd and contradictory behaviors and character traits assocated with their Gods and they end up shooting themselves in their own feet at that point. But that's a whole other story.

In the meantime, it's just a gross misunderstanding of Occam's Razor to think that it could be applied to just any speculations that don't actually offer rational explanations. You need to have rational explanations first, before you can apply Occam's Razor to them.

Right. And since Atheism doesn't work, because by all our science, there is no way that an inanimate force can exist forever and create a temporary universe. So the creator of the universe must have been a person, who decided to create the universe. It's irrational to insist that our universe was created by natural forces, because we know that natural forces don't work that way.

Its irrational to insist that you know exactly how all natural forces work, since even scientists do not make that claim.

There is a theory that the universe continually explodes, expands, slows, then contracts and compacts just to do it all over again and though we know the relative age of the universe since the explosion that spawned the current era, there is no telling how many times this has occurred already or will continue to occur. Does it happen that way? We don't know, but its a good theory ... without any Gods.

And even with your claim that a God would have to exist outside of the Universe to create it, there is still nothing that would give any credence to the idea that there must be only one of them.

I've never made that claim. What I stated is according to what we currently know about how the universe works.



You mean the cyclic or oscillating universe theory. That theory has fallen out of favor since scientists have shown that the universe will never experience the big crunch and will instead continue to expand until it freezes or experiences heat death.



I refer you to my earlier post: Occam's Razor.

The simplest explanation isn't that there's only one since it creates more questions than it answers. It would be simpler to theorize that this "creator" were a member of a race of beings.

Not really, since the Universe violates our laws or reason, causation and science, by it's very existence.



I've already explained why that dog won't hunt.

It is a very good possibility that what people worship as their creator was a scientist from an advanced civilization. Indeed that is what Luciferians believe and they worship this being they call Lucifer the light bearer.

The statue of Liberty represents Lucifer the light bearer, believed to be the creator of humankind. But just like Jesus, he apparently left the earth and they are waiting for him to return too.

(sigh)...

Rev 12:7-9

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
NKJV

And he created and rules this world right??

Isn't that what the Bible says? That he (Lucifer or whoever) rules this world or this physical universe?

Then why do people worship "God" as their creator, when apparently Lucifer is their creator?

God created the earth and the creatures, including mankind.

The whole "I would rather rule on earth than serve in heaven" bit was from a play, not the Bible. God does allow Satan somewhat free reign to wage spiritual warfare against humans, this will change in time.

Spider do you not believe what you read in the Bible then?


Rev 12:7-9

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
NKJV

The God that people worship as the creator in most religions could very well be Lucifer pretending. He is, after all, said to be the great deceiver.

I don't know what you read, but what I posted said basically the same thing. Satan is here. He rules earth, but only because God allows it.

Cause God's such a nice guy. Love me for leaving you under the care of the greatest evil in the universe and if you don't, I'll make sure you stay there!

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

How do you know that the God you worship isn't Lucifer by another name? Why would God give the earth to Lucifer to rule and then create Adam an Eve here in the midst of all this evil and under the rule of Lucifer?

God doesn't "allow" it, he commanded it.

That's even worse........