not sure what you're asking. i recognize some things as an authority and do not recognize others as an athority. i do not recognize the bible or the koran as authoritative so they are not an athourity to me. you obviously feel differently. my point was that we assign authority as individuals. the police may have the authority to enforce the law but many criminals do not recognize their authority and break the laws as they please. so your authority is not my authority and my authority is not a criminal's authority.

ok

Why can you not accept that there are people who have come to different conclusions about things than you have come to?

Why do you feel that you need to belittle everyone who doesn't agree with your views?

There are countless examples of brilliant humans throughout history who have totally renounced the biblical picture of a personified jealous godhead.

Albert Einstein. Going nowhere?
Isaac Newton. Going nowhere?
Richard Feynman. Going nowhere?
Carl Sagan. Going nowhere?
Stephen Hawking. Going nowhere?

The list goes on and on and on mg.

Many of the greatest minds of humanity have renounced the biblical picture of God.

Albert Einstein obviously supports Jeanniebean's conclusions:

"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
— Albert Einstein

"If there is any religion that could respond to the needs of modern science, it would be Buddhism."
— Albert Einstein

So sorry mg, but if I'm going to LISTEN to someone, I'd rather listen to the wisdom of great minds than to listen to someone like you who would rather just insult everyone who refuses to suck up to your unsupportable religious myths.

When you have concrete evidence for the biblical myths, let me know.

Until then I see no reason to refer to them as anything other than myths.

As far as I'm concerned you have nothing to say that's worth listening to in regard to the biblical myths. All you seem to want to do is preach Jesus.

Unimpressive mg.

If you're going to stand by the claim that he's the son of Yahweh who died as the sacrificial lamb of God to pay for our salvation you're first going to have to convince me that Yahweh is more than just a myth. I don't even want to hear about Jesus being the "Son" of a God that you haven't even yet established as being credible.

Good luck with that!

And if you're just going to insult everyone by claiming that they are heading nowhere just because they don't accept your religious claims without evidence, then why should they give you any respect either?

Seems like a rather one-way street you have to offer there mg.

Your right and they are wrong. No proof required.

You're living in a dream world mg.

to some, i suppose, nowhere is everywhere they ain't.

Well, here's the real deal.

mg claims that people aren't willing to LISTEN.

I say, HOGWASH.

I'll be glad to LISTEN to anything he has to say.

However, he had better be prepared to realize that I'm not just going to accept everything he says without question.

I've offer him my reasons why I don't believe in the biblical picture, in the hopes that he can see precisely what he's going to need to convince me of.

~~~~

Isn't this what the Christian versus non-Christian arguments always come down to?

I have my reasons why I am totally convince that the biblical picture of God cannot possibly be true. And if someone wants to convince me otherwise, they are going to need to tackle my concerns and objections to the religion.

As far as I'm concerned it actually comes down to the fact that they are usually unwilling to listen to my reasoning.

I also don't even require "proof" either way.

I'm more than willing to accept a logical "stalemate".

In other words, if the Christian is willing to confess that we ultimately can't know whether there's any truth it those stories or not, then that should suffice.

They should then be more than willing to totally respect my decision to not believe it then.

But the are never willing to go even that far. They continually demand that I must believe it lest I'm "rejecting God".

And that is nothing short of unrealistic.

All they need to do is CONFESS that it is indeed reasonable for anyone to totally reject the biblical stories as myths.

That's all they need to do.

And if they aren't willing to do that, then they had better have CONCRETE PROOF that it is totally unreasonable to reject the biblical stories.

In all my yeas of LISTENING to the Christians I have never met a single solitary one yet who could convince me that it's unreasonable to reject the biblical stories as myths.

It's perfectly REASONABLE to totally dismiss the biblical picture as nothing more than babblings of a crude and rude male-chauvinistic society.

And if that's true then I don't want to hear anymore about these stories.

If its REASONABLE to reject them, then I reject them. And I expect to be treated as a REASONABLE person for having rejected them, and not branded as a looser who's going nowhere.

I most certainly have no desire to believe them on pure FAITH alone. IMHO they are sick demented stories that actually encourage and support prejudices, bigotries, and ignorance that I personally don't care to support.

In short, I don't believe that if there exists a supposedly all-wise creator it would be as stupid as the biblical stories demand.

Some people may be offended by that view, but it's my sincere view. From my perspective there is a lot of ignorance in the biblical stories. And I refuse to support that ignorance.

It's as simple as that.

Red said to MG:



I think this is very true. Here on Mingle, we have only words to represent us. There seems to be more meaning here. There seems to be more honesty here than on the street.

On the street we wear a mask of politeness. You don't meet a person and immediately start talking about religion or politics. That would be silly, and risky.

Here, there are forums and threads that jump right into the subjects. What would be the purpose to just say "Hi, hello, how are you today, Nice weather we are having...blah blah blah etc.?"

What would be the purpose in only talking about things we all agree on?

This is where we leave the world of polite encounters and enter the world of mind, perception and beliefs.

You have to be tough to enter this world. It will sharpen your intellect and expand your mind. You will learn what goes on in other people's minds faster than the relationship you have had living next door to your neighbor for twenty years.

You will come to know people you have never seen better than people you have known all your life.

Its really quite amazing.

Abra said:



That is all I am asking for.
Rational concrete convincing evidence to consider.

I am completely done with "you have to have faith." blah blah blah.

I'm done with that.

I will chose what I will have faith in and it probably won't be your authority. (The Bible) or the government (Propaganda and Lies.)

The reason I am coming down hard on this point is because frankly I'm sick of all the lies. We have been led down a wrong path. It has taken this world to the brink of tyranny.

This tyranny is supported by the lies in the Bible and the story of Abraham which has spawned all the Abrahamic based religions and the idea that the Jews are the chosen people.

Balderdash! Prove it!

These religions have been at each others throats for centuries, killing, torturing, committing genocide etc. The people are divided. I want it stopped!

Stop it! Grow up and find the truth. If you think you are right and if you insist that the Bible is true then the prove it! Don't ask me to have faith in that false doctrine until you can present valid verifiable evidence to consider. I will demand proof, or I will continue to challenge your faith in that lie.

The reason is because of the state of the world today. We are on the brink of self destruction because of our belief in a lie. All major conflicts are in the middle east and surround the lie about the so-call "chosen people" who claim to be the descendants of Abraham.

I say Abraham and all those descendants are fictional characters including Jesus, Mary and all the rest.

People need to wake up and put their personal belief on the shelf long enough to be rational and search for real evidence about the information they have put their faith in.

Until then, I have to say, its all false. I want evidence and proof if you are going to claim your information is true.

That does not make me a bad person. I am simply fed up with the division of the people of the world and all the killing and wars over a lie.

It is the biggest lie ever sold.

Note:
This is not to be interpreted as a personal attack on anyone. I am and shall always challenge the information. All information.

no argument there from me. i hear often from the faithful about my unwillingness to listen when what what really happened is that after all their talking and all my listening to what they have to say they simply haven't said anything convincing. the problem is not mine or yours if the goal is for them to save me, convert me, show me the way to salvation, whatever. the problem is theirs to just make some sense that i can relate to. a tough row to hoe to be sure but there it is.

we all choose a path,, we are all products of our experiences and our environment and our paths will usually reflect the 'reality' of what those experience and environments are


my experiences and my environment lead me to my faith
I find plenty to verify what I believe and dont require anyone else to agree to the dependability of those sources

I dont plan to 'change' anyones mind. I try to set the best example I can, answer the questions the best I can, and let whatever is going to happen inside of a person happen,, ..


I believe God takes it from there,,,

Good morning everyone!

Hope all of you have a blessed week as you get into to your talks.

Don't forget to love each other.

what, no more laughing, mg?

Hello folks

It's a beautiful start to a wonderful day. Hope you guys and gals have a chance to take it all in.

life is quite experience

love and light

Now you are modeling.

keep peace in all the environments you choose to live in today.

I just came back from the library. Had a very nice experience interacting with several people there. Everyone was wishing everyone a great day, etc.

That's a typical day in my life. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I had a negative experience with anyone on a personal level.

But obviously there is far more to life than merely being polite and nice to everyone and just enjoying our days.

There exists hardcore fundamentalists who used religion to push negative and often damaging agendas and views onto people. Those negative actions need to be addressed.

After a mg, if you saw someone emotionally traumatizing little children in real life, would you simply tip your hat to them and politely wish them light and love? And then merrily skip away to enjoy your day whilst they continue to emotionally and psychically harm those children?

Speaking out against negativity, especially when it is being preached in the name of religion can sometimes appear to be a 'negative' thing itself.

That is unfortunate, but to just politely ignore it would be far worse, IMHO.

If we want to fix things, sometimes we just can't avoid getting our hands dirty.

It's a necessary side-affect of addressing negative issues.

thank you mg,,be likewise blessed,,

Dude, I'm going to tell you what right now. Don't go getting out of line with mine or anyone else's charity work. These kids and adults deserve every ounce of energy we give them and I take my charity work very serious. You want to pop off at me what you do or don't like go for it but don't use this as a platform.

gone, sorry but dude sometimes!

mg, what charity work are you referring to?

If you're doing charity work I admire that mg.

I don't know why you would tell me to "watch my mouth". Where have I ever renounced charity work?

Clearly you have become personally offended by my disbelief in the biblical fables. You're obviously going to hold that chip on your shoulder for eternity.

It's a shame that you feel that way mg. Using religion as an excuse to become hostile toward others is not good. That only creates division and negativity itself.

If you can't be nice toward people who don't believe in your religion, then there's something wrong with your religion, IMHO.

Hi Jean

I'm sorry but that really got under my skin. I love working with the different programs that I belong to and support and his timing with this comment was just really bad and in really poor taste.

I do quite a few and love it, always have. I just signed up for one where they take 10 percent of my profits for the summer and use it for the kids that need food. What's cool about this one is not only does it get doubled by the sponsor but gets matched on top of that. Last year we did close to $300,000 which was so cool. This year we want to top that.

Picking on me is one thing but picking on anyone that does charity work is way out of line and should not be tolerated. I don't care what anyone believes when it comes to this. People need help and we need to do our part.

If anyone wishes to give I'm more than happy to supply lists of organizations I use and like privately but there are tons more to choose from.

And another thing to the others. Your darn right I model for causes, been doing it all my life and wouldn't trade it for anything. If you think that my hellos and well wishes are not up to parr that's on you.

I love to love and I'm not going to let a bunch of downers stop me.

BTW jean cool thread you put up earlier.

Honestly I'm not offended at all about your disbeliefs. I'm not clear on where you got that. I just don't want to be hanging out with people who just want to argue. I love you dude but you shouldn't say stuff about people some times.

If I or any one else wants to come up and say hi "let it be". And your darn right if you pick on people who are helping other people I'm going to get in your face about it.

And I'll add, if I was handing someone a 20 and you grabbed it out of my hand or asked me to act differently when I handed it to him, I would slap your hand. Now if you wish to talk about the comment about me and who or what I look at like you did earlier you and I can take it off site if you wish but don't be pulling that stuff here.