This is only your incorrect interpretation. The defining characteristic of being a Jew is still religion not genetics.
There is no disagrrement on that point.

Your posts indicate that you wish to deny the Jews a right
to their ancestral homeland.

Racial my arse. The Crusades and the Inquisition were purely
religious. It is important to denounce persecution everywhere
it occurs. In particular it is important to denounce false
stereotypes and bigotry towards Jews.

It is disgusting that you describe only Jews as "whining".
Your attempt to deny their right to sympathy for the
persecution they have suffered and outrageous unwarranted
attacks on them due to their religious belief is appalling
and singling them out is purely antisemitic.

Revolting Nonsense.

It has been known as a forgery for about 90 years. I learned about
it in High School history. Read the Wiki article and
it gives a lot of the sources. Not really disputable.

That issue was settled ages ago.

Wait a sec and I will look it up in the Wiki article...

Literary forgery

The forgery contains numerous elements typical of what is known in literature as a "false document": a document that is deliberately written to fool the reader into believing that what is written is truthful and accurate even though, in actuality, it is not.[6] It is also one of the best-known and most-discussed examples of literary forgery, with analysis and proof of its fraudulent origin going as far back as 1921.[7] The forgery is also an early example of "Conspiracy Theory" literature.[8] Written mainly in the first person plural,[9] the text embodies generalizations, truisms and platitudes on how to take over the world: take control of the media and the financial institutions, change the traditional social order, etc. It does not contain specifics.[citation needed]

Maurice Joly

Elements of the Protocols were plagiarized from Joly's fictional Dialogue in Hell, a thinly-veiled attack on the political ambitions of Napoleon III, who, represented by the non-Jewish character Machiavelli,[10] plots to rule the world. Joly, a monarchist and legitimist, was imprisoned in France for 15 months as a direct result of his book's publication. Ironically, scholars have noted that Dialogue in Hell was itself a plagiarism, at least in part, of a novel by Eugene Sue, Les Mystères du Peuple (1849–1856).[11]

Ref 7 is here:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/hoax.html

The article by Graves on the hoax was published in the NY Times
in 1921:



Pretty much it is a standard lie of antisemites to justify mistreatment of Jews. Hitler and Goebbels loved it! But it is all a lot of toe jam
of course.



More from the Wiki...

Further reading

Stephen Eric Bronner: A Rumor About the Jews: Reflections on Antisemitism and the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (Oxford University Press, 2003) ISBN 0-19-516956-5
Chanes, Jerome A., Antisemitism: a reference handbook, ABC-CLIO, 2004
Eisner, Will: The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. ISBN 0393060454
Hagemeister, Michael: "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion: Between History and Fiction - Hagemeister 35 (1103)". Retrieved 2009-09-15.
Hagemeister, Michael. The 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' and the Myth of a Jewish Conspiracy in Post Soviet Russia, in: Brinks, Jan Herman; Rock, Stella; Timms, Edward (ed.): Nationalist Myths and Modern Media. Contested Identities in the Age of Globalization, London / New York 2006, pp. 243–255.
Jacobs, Steven Leonard and Weitzman, Mark: Dismantling the Big Lie: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. (2003) ISBN 0-88125-785-0
Lüthi, Urs: Der Mythos von der Weltverschwörung: die Hetze der Schweizer Frontisten gegen Juden und Freimaurer, am Beispiel des Berner Prozesses um die "Protokolle der Weisen von Zion" (Basel: Helbing & Lichtenhahn, 1992), ISBN 3719011976 9783719011970, OCLC: 30002662
Katz, Steven; Landes, Richard (eds.): Reconsidering 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion': 100 Years After the Forgery, New York 2008 (in print)
Kis, Danilo: The Book Of Kings And Fools in The Encyclopedia of the Dead, 1989 (Faber and Faber)
Goldberg, Isaac: The so-called "Protocols of the Elders of Zion": a Definitive Exposure of One of the Most Malicious Lies in History (Girard, Kansas, Haldeman-Julius Publications, 1936).
Shibuya, Eric, "The Struggle with Right-Wing Extremist Groups in the United States, in Countering terrorism and insurgency in the 21st century, vol 3, Forest, James (Ed.), Greenwood Publishing Group, 2007
Stauber, Roni; Webman, Esther (eds.): The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - The One-Hundred Year Myth and Its Impact, Tel Aviv 2008 (in print)
Timmerman, Kenneth R.: Preachers of Hate: Islam and the War on America (2003), Crown Forum. ISBN 1-4000-4901-6
Wolf, Lucien: The Myth of the Jewish Menace in World Affairs or, The Truth About the Forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion (New York, The Macmillan company, 1921).
The truth about "The Protocols" : a literary forgery (1921) The original Times articles exposing the book collected in a contemporary pamphlet.
Bernstein, Herman (1921): The History of a Lie at Project Gutenberg As page images at archive.org Internet Archive: Details: The history of a lie, "The protocols of the wise men of Zion"; a study Archive.org. Retrieved on 2009-02-01

“This is potentially the biggest case in the British Jewish community’s modern history,” said Stephen Pollard, editor of the Jewish Chronicle newspaper here. “It speaks directly to the right of the state to intervene in how a religion operates.”

The case began when a 12-year-old boy, an observant Jew whose father is Jewish and whose mother is a Jewish convert, applied to the school, JFS. Founded in 1732 as the Jews’ Free School, it is a centerpiece of North London’s Jewish community. It has around 1,900 students, but it gets far more applicants than it accepts.

By many standards, the JFS applicant, identified in court papers as “M,” is Jewish. But not in the eyes of the school, which defines Judaism under the Orthodox definition set out by Jonathan Sacks, chief rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth. Because M’s mother converted in a progressive, not an Orthodox, synagogue, the school said, she was not a Jew — nor was her son. It turned down his application.

That would have been the end of it. But M’s family sued, saying that the school had discriminated against him. They lost, but the ruling was overturned by the Court of Appeal this summer.

In an explosive decision, the court concluded that basing school admissions on a classic test of Judaism — whether one’s mother is Jewish — was by definition discriminatory. Whether the rationale was “benign or malignant, theological or supremacist,” the court wrote, “makes it no less and no more unlawful.”

The case rested on whether the school’s test of Jewishness was based on religion, which would be legal, or on race or ethnicity, which would not. The court ruled that it was an ethnic test because it concerned the status of M’s mother rather than whether M considered himself Jewish and practiced Judaism.

“The requirement that if a pupil is to qualify for admission his mother must be Jewish, whether by descent or conversion, is a test of ethnicity which contravenes the Race Relations Act,” the court said. It added that while it was fair that Jewish schools should give preference to Jewish children, the admissions criteria must depend not on family ties, but “on faith, however defined.”

The case has stirred up long-simmering resentments among the leaders of different Jewish denominations, who, for starters, disagree vehemently on the definition of Jewishness. They also disagree on the issue of whether an Orthodox leader is entitled to speak for the entire community.

“How dare they question our beliefs and our Jewishness?” David Lightman, an observant Jewish father whose daughter was also denied a place at the school because it did not recognize her mother’s conversion, told reporters recently. “I find it offensive and very upsetting.”

I am glad to see we have some agreement that to be considered "Jewish" is more than a religion called Judaism.

You guys could take this to private message and spare us seeing this at the top of the sci/philo forum when in fact it is neither.


Pls, I beg you!

Aside from the question about light and dreams, this has had nothing to do with Sci/Phi for pages now. It shouldn't be moved, since the OP was science, but maybe it should be locked and the participants encouraged to start a new thread in....maybe politics?