The above is certainly true.

Real investigation requires wading through tons of propaganda and finding what is "true" and what is "false" is not easy.

All information must be considered. How one comes to any conclusion depends on ones ability to piece together a gigantic puzzle and nobody has all the pieces, or can put that puzzle together the same way in their perceptions.

That is why in order to ascertain what might be true, one has to consider as many different perceptions (other peoples) as they can.

P.S.
The "Law of Vibration" or Attraction is a completely different subject and is not the topic of this current conversation.

It requires a different perception and understanding. I am asking that you do not make a judgement about me as a person because of what I believe about the law of Vibration. This is a completely different level of truth. It is totally unrelated.

Light:

I have said before in this thread that I understand the level of truth that states that light travels (through space) and the method of measurement used to track that travel through space.

I have looked at that perception and that perspective and I do understand it. On that level of truth, I agree with it.

I can also see that looking at light without time and space, looking at its properties, I can understand how someone would claim that it's true nature is that it does not actually "travel."

Hard as this is to imagine, I imagine that light is an energy that we can see and that if this space time universe is finite, perhaps it has a boarder where it ends. If that is the case, perhaps this energy we interpret as "light" could exist elsewhere, meaning outside of the boarders of the known space time universe, or perhaps in another dimension.

Its called considering another person's perspective or perception of an idea.

Do you dream? Are you dreams totally dark or can you see things? What is the light source that illuminates your dreams?

So.

I think that the question of why Jews are hated centers the discussion around the problem. It would add some light, pun intended.

It is a sincere question, and one that I have always asked.

No. That does not follow from what I said, at all. I don't insist, nor said anything to imply, that anyone arrives at conclusions on every aspect of a groups position. I suggest the opposite - that we accept that we don't know and we do not hold opinions on every aspect of a groups position - until after we have cause to. You and Slow have clearly already spent a fair amount of time looking at information and beliefs on topics related to zionism; you have cause to have opinions.

To be more explicit:

OMG a science related question!

IIRC (a big if), we see things in dreams because some of the same neurons are firing in the same way as when we see things during the day. They just aren't being stimulated by the retina. There is no need for light to illuminate our dreams. There is no light source.

The reason my arguments are widely regarded as the truth is that
THEY ARE THE TRUTH!



One problem with your argument is that you are wrong. You have
every right to be anti-Zionist - anybody does Jews included.
Zionists just aren't the tyrannical or oppressive group you try to
make them out to be. The true history of Zionism is that it is
and was a movement to recreate the land of Israel. Nothing
oppressive or tyrannical in that. You can be as wrong and
obstinate as you like about Zionists it just makes you look foolish.

But your advocating of the false "Khazarian Jews" and Protocols
and denial of religious persecution of the Jews in the Holocaust
etc. are Antisemitic arguments and well known lies widely used by
the Nazis in their propaganda machine. And it is disgusting.

You simply do not know the truth and instead spread misinformation
and hateful bigoted stereotypes about Jews - straight from the
Protocols and Der Sturmer to your lips.

Zionism is not the boogeyman you make it out to be. But your use
of Nazi propaganda is obscene and antisemitic.

Simple as that. I just call you on it.

If you are against the hatred and the genocidal message of the
Nazis then please stop repeating their propaganda.

And yet we "see" light.

It is not "their" propaganda.

Anti-semitic Jews are not Nazi's.
Daryl B Smith is not a Nazi.

(On the other hand, I'm not so sure about George Bush SR.)


It is their point of view and their truth and it is just as valid as any other persons.

I'm not even going to say that I know for a fact that all of it is true, but I will say that all of it should be looked at, checked out, evaluated and considered. Not suppressed.

Let the truth be known. It will be known. Anyone who tries to suppress it will fail especially if they use violence, threats, intimidation, insults, ridicule etc.

But you demand that you are right and I am wrong. That pretty much cements your position into place and there is nothing more you can learn.

You are closed. You have no more room for information, hence you cannot know what is true.

Have you ever had a lucid dream?

If so,

Do you see color? Do you feel and taste things?

Yes the 'brain' creates these sensations. You can touch things in your dream with your dream body. You can see things in space. I have even tasted things in dreams.

There appears to be light in your dream world. I have even looked up at the sky and seen stars and the moon in my dream world.

Strange how similar that world is to the one we are perceiving in this 'real' world. Strange how we think we walk through space and see light and color and objects. Skies and mountains.

Memories perhaps? Hallucinations?

I have heard scientific explanations of the physical and chemical processes at work during rem sleep and that seems to satisfy some people about how dreams are possible.

What if we simulated that process and ramped it up a bit and created an extended reality with enhanced senses and a longer duration? We could create an artificial matrix and fool ourselves into believing it was real.

We better put a timer on our stay or we will never want to get out of it. Oh I know! Let's invent deterioration and entropy. Let's program death into the matrix.

This is also wrong. The Protocols were taught in German schools
as part of a Jewish smear campaign as Nazi propaganda. They
were republished in Der Sturmer along with similar garbage.

I am open as anyone but I do know the truth in this instance
and you quite obviously do not. I never said anyone was a Nazi
but you are posting Nazi propaganda to this forum and insisting
it is true although it is widely recognized as antisemitic
slander of the worst sort.

from the Wiki article on Nazi Propaganda~

The Nazis and sympathizers published many books. Most of the beliefs that would become associated with the Nazis, such as German nationalism, eugenics and anti-Semitism had been in circulation since the 19th century, and the Nazis seized on this body of existing work in their own publications.

The most notable is Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf detailing his beliefs.[45] The book outlines major ideas that would later culminate in World War II. It is heavily influenced by Gustave Le Bon's 1895 The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind, which theorized propaganda as a way to control the seemingly irrational behaviour of crowds. Particularly prominent is the violent anti-Semitism of Hitler and his associates, drawing, among other sources, on the fabricated "Protocols of the Elders of Zion".

It does not take any effort to demonstrate the fallacy of your
widely studied and thoroughly discredited point of view.

see also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher

from the Wiki page on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a fraudulent, antisemitic text purporting to describe a Jewish plan for achieving global domination. It was first published in Russia in 1903, translated into multiple languages, and disseminated internationally in the early part of the twentieth century. Henry Ford funded printing of 500,000 copies which were distributed throughout the United States in the 1920s.

Adolf Hitler was a major proponent. It was studied, as if factual, in German classrooms after the Nazis came to power in 1933, despite having been exposed as fraudulent years before.

It has ALREADY been dissected analyzed studied ad nauseum it is not
suppressed - anybody can read about it. It is just known to be False.



You might as well revisit the "question" of whether the earth is flat.

Slowhand1 your thinking is very narrow. You are like a dog with a bone. I accept that this is your point of view. I accept that you won't even consider another point of view. I have posted many credible links and valid information, and you just ignore them. There is nothing more to say. You are not receptive. You are clearly biased. I have made my opinion clear, you have made your opinion clear. I don't want to engage in your methods of "arguments." They just seem a tad bit rude and childish. I don't agree with you.

Not to mention I just don't like your laughing similes.

p.s. if you want to crusade against Nazi's then you should protest to the government about Operation Paper Clip. Google it. Find a worthy cause and leave me alone.

This... right here... is the philosophical cliff that you've jumped off of. Stop in your tracks and think about this...

The above is wrong. Simply wrong.

1. Point of view does not equate to truth. It seems that you're confusing belief with truth. A point of view can be equated to personal belief. Truth, however cannot. Belief is insufficient for truth.
2. There is no 'their truth', and 'our truth'. Rather there is their belief and our belief. If the two belief systems are mutually exclusive, then one or the other, or even possibly both are wrong. We can confidently say that because a positive assertion cannot be both true and false simultaneously. It violates the law of non-contradiction. If you want to debate that particular law, well... to put it simply - there is no evidence of it ever being violated.
3. All points of view are not equally valid. Validity is about the logical form that an argument/position takes during expression. It seems that you're confusing validity with something else, what that something is - I don't know.

By the way, I'm not picking on you, merely attempting to help.

Have you asked those who hate? Do their answers cut the mustard?

Have you read don Miguel Ruiz's The Four Agreements yet?



The overall subject matter underwrites exactly what is going on in this thread regarding who is holding fast to their belief and how that assention to believe happens... in layman's terms - which helped me tremendously when I read it years ago.

Again, attempting to help.

Only cuz we luv ya!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8V8rtdXnLA&feature=feedf

Fantastic!

Interesting link, Bushido.

I am not biased. I consider new points of view all the time and
I most certainly have read and considered your source material.

Your source material is wrong, bigoted, inflammatory and much of it
has been used in the past as Nazi propaganda.

I merely point out each time you cite false things like Jewish
world domination conspiracies or Christian Identity arguments
that some Jews are fakes or when you wrongly say that Zionism
is like the mafia or when you assert that Israel is a dictatorship
that you are wrong on all counts.

Don't be upset with me just because I know the truth and have
pointed it out to you and the other people reading this thread.

I know about Operation Paperclip. You know the ex-Nazi scientists
were well aware that what you have been saying about Jews was
false Nazi propaganda.

First I apologize for this------> But I did laugh when I read your statement "The above is wrong. Simply wrong."

Yes, from your perspective, it is.

When I said that all points of view are "just as valid" I do (did) not mean "equally true."

All points of view are not "equally valid" where "truth" is concerned or where "percentage of truth" are concerned. But "truth" (I believe) requires more than one point of view. The more points of view you can understand, the more truth you will come away with. (discover)

There are levels of truth, and no single point of view can possibly know or represent "the whole truth." In discovering as much of "the whole truth" as possible one should consider all (well more than one) points of view in order to ferret out their bit of truth.

A point of view (or person) can be mostly "wrong" about something (according to others) but that point of view is still "valid" within the whole of "truth" simply because it exists.

The question to ask might be "Why does it exist." (It being the point of view, not the person.)

When you completely reject a person because you can't understand their point of view (and their information) you reject what bits of "truth" they might have. If (according to you) they don't have even a single scrap of "truth" then the question to ask could be why are they "so wrong?"
(or so completely wrong) Where are they (coming from)that they are "so wrong?"

The information (even if completely wrong according to YOU} is still "information" about an observers perceptions.

The guy in the video is right. People don't know how "wrong" they are. Including me.

Points of view can change but there is usually always a reason for a point of view.


While I don't think anyone can be "completely right" I also don't think anyone can be "completely wrong" either.

It may matter to the majority who is considered "right or wrong" in but I have seen those opinions change too.

Seriously now, here is my question to you. Do you think that I am "holding fast" to my belief in the matter of the subject of "Why are Jews Persecuted?"

It may seem that way. But if that were true I would probably not even be involved in this conversation with this group of logical thinkers.

I am still looking for an answer to that question. I'm not looking for rhetoric or any kind of popular propaganda of the authorities who dominate this American consciousness.

I'm not going to say that I think they (the official story or media) are completely "wrong" but I will state with confidence that I have good reasons not to trust and believe them as they have repeatedly proven their ability to lie to the public.

And they expect the people to forgive and forget that even when you point it out to them.

What they have accomplished by LIES (Top secret projects etc.)is this. We can't afford to trust them anymore. I have lost my faith in the system and in what they tell us. Even if they started fessing up and telling the truth, I have lost my trust in their authority.

And I still ask the questions.

What the Hell is happening to our country?

And why throughout history, would people hate or persecute "Jews?" If they do it because of "propaganda" then why would anyone go to such great lengths to create that propaganda? What is the agenda in that? If they hate because of religion, why "Jews?" There are many different religions to choose from to hate people for. Do people even know anything about the Jewish religion? I don't.

And why does our government Lie to us? Why is everything (so many things) "classified?" Why do they always seem to pick an enemy or a war?.... to distract our attention?... from what?

There are questions to be asked and answered. I will ask them, or give up asking them. I want real answers to the questions I ask, not criticism.

I ask for you to think and I ask for your opinions. I am not asking for you to point me to your authorities or any of their propaganda. I have lost my trust in them. My trust in in people who will THINK.