Actually, I think Funches makes some really good

points on here...makes us think as Christians .

I hope he ressurrects his old thread ...the one where we

see christ from the

unbelievers point of view.

Really thought that was an interesting thread, Funches.

Certainly makes you think that is for sure.

Have to really think about how you phrase things as well!

Funches challenges us christians to use our

noodle....

which God gave us also to use........

I like Funches.

Yup,

Keeps you fresh that's for sure.

Sometimes I just find it maddening though.

well you could have critized Jesus about turning over the property of the money changers in the temple or do you consider that to be an example of turning the other cheek.....or you could have said that he shouldn't have used a parable to refer to a woman of another faith that came to him for help as being a dog, there are probably lots of thing you could have critized Jesus for but you have to actually read the bible to do so

also him coming to kill his loves ones at the battle at armedgeddon I guess you view that as being something positive ....

that thread will get me banned from the forums ....

o I guess now everyone is saying in that case please bring it back

I don't see those things as criticisms. For me to criticize Him that would be me saying I am better than God and He should listen to me.

Where you see fault, I see lessons to be learned.

of course you don't see things to critize Jesus ....once you become a Christian you give up your "Free Will" to critize him ...

allow me to explain how it works

if you're a Christian then you don't critize Jesus
if you're a muslim you don't critize mohammad
if you're buddhist you don't critize Buddha
if you're a Bruce Lee fan you don't critize Bruce Lee

besides it would make you a heretic and once upon a time they got stakes stuck up their apse

if Jesus killed your parents you would have to assume that your parents done something wrong and deserved to be killed but it's nice to know that Jesus killed them with love

and that's why Christinity breed apathy so that all your love ones that are not of the faith can be killed and roast in Hell for all eternity (give or take a day or two) and all that is required from the followers is indifference

Jesus in the end would have to kill everyone not of his faith which is the same as you accuse Islam of demanding

Pretty much disagree with everything you just said.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God and my Lord and Savior. To say He should not have done xxx is to say I know what God should have done better. That is the height of arrogance to belief I am better and more moral than God. I am not sacrificing my "right to criticize." I don't see that there is anything worthy of criticism. If I did, I wouldn't be a Christian. And NO don't read into that. All I am saying here is for me personally, if I saw something worthy to be criticized, I would review it more thoroughly and if that was a valid critique would have changed my faith. I do know the Bible fairly well. Certainly no expert, but I have yet to run across anything that made me doubt Jesus was the Son of God and righteous in all He did.

There is no way to compare Jesus' return from Heaven to Muhammad's teachings for his followers to carry out. I can't even think of an analogy that could capture how far off base that is...

but didn't God also create Muslims .. so when you critize Muslims and suggest that perhaps they disappear aren't you also critizing what God has done

Nope - Because Muhammad created the Muslim faith of his own Free Will.

no it was God that created the Muslim faith and use the angel gabriel ( The holy spirit) to deliver it to Mohammad

but either way God still created the Muslims...and you are critizing God for doing so

I've been following the conversation between Funches and MyLifeToday about criticizing Jesus.

What I find ironic is that no one seems to recognize that the biblical stories themselves actually have Jesus criticizing God when he calls out with his final breath, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

How is this criticism of God?

Well, it's criticism in two ways.

First, Jesus is assuming that God would not have known enough on his own to recognize when people are truly guilty and when they are merely acting in ignorance.

Clearly Jesus felt that ignorance is not sufficient reason for condemning anyone, yet at the same time he obviously felt that God would condemn people without sufficient reason. Otherwise, why even bother pleading with God to forgive people and explaining to God the reasoning behind the request (i.e. "For they know not what they do".

Secondly, this is Jesus basically trying to convince God of doing something that he believes that God would not automatically do on his own. That's basically a criticism of how God would normally handle things.

~~~~

I personally have no problem with any of this because I don't accept the New Testament to be the infallible word of God. On the contrary as far as I'm concerned it is so utterly riddled with contradictions and absurdities that it can't possibly be the thoughts and intentions of any God.

Either Jesus (or whoever this story was modeled after) never said half the things that are attributed to him, or the story is entirely fabricated fiction.

Moreover, the bottom line for me is that any so-called Christian, who would have Jesus himself judging people for not believing in something have no scriptural support for their claims.

Sure, they can root through the scriptures dragging out verses that might appear to support this claim when taken out of context. However, in the context of the WHOLE STORY none of those claims have any merit, because in the end, with his dying breath, Jesus renounced the judging of people who know not what they do.

Therefore the hardcore proselytizers who try to make Jesus out to be the hardcore condemner like the original biblical God are clearly in ERROR.

Even Jesus with his dying breath renounced any such unwarranted condemnations.

So if we are to "believe" theses stories we must accept that Jesus himself criticized the unwarranted behavior of God the Father.

Clearly Jesus was a rebellious son who did not agree with his father, in these stories.

So even if we're going to believe these stories we must recognize Jesus to be the rebellious son, and not merely a son who would blindly do the will of the Father without complaining about and criticizing the typical expected behavior of the "The Father".

In fact, I hold that it's Jesus rebellion against the original God of Abraham that actually attracts most Christians to Christianity. Jesus stood up to God, and everyone loves Jesus for this.

that's prayer not criticism

the same as they do in the confession box when they ask for forgiveness or ask to forgive

if anything that statement can be used to show that Jesus is not God for those that believe he is

I disagree.

A prayer would be to simply ask God to forgiven them.

Explaining to God WHY he should forgive them, is giving God instructions what constitutes valid reasons for forgiving people.

That's more than just a request, that's a justification for the forgiveness.

Jesus plead his case...it's up to God after that

generally when people ask for forgiveness they give the reason why

I guess nobody trusts God to do the right thing on his own.

Strange indeed.

well he was nailed to a cross when he asked

you will have to email me the next time you notice one of these 'points'

thanx