Well said, though I'd say the deception goes back a lot further than that even.

Thanks for this though in any case, I'm glad at least one other person here can see what I am seeing.

so, lets say your right... what then? what are you going to do?

The only thing I can do, educate and inform, and try to make my way through it all the best way I can. Not sure what else I can say for that really.

No point in getting upset...people have their own opinions about stuff. I think the difference with you and me is that we research. We are not led around with blindfolders on. Like I said in a different post....we have been lied to since Nam and the government wants people to think if you disagree with "government" you are a nut case. People seem to think their American Dream is a bust when bad talk about government arrises. That's not true tho...it just makes one work harder for what is right, true and Godfearing.

And what about the actual gunfight...isn't it just too ironic...they didn't hear any helicopters in the air...what? there were not guards on duty?? ....so none of them could get to their guns. Or did they just decide not to get their guns?? Yea...ok...
let me think about that for a min....Negative.

Second point....Not one person in that town believed he lived there....it was an ARMY barracks for goodness sake. "Our government would not have allowed that." Fact of matter is...he was not there.

BinLadin made a deal with our government to take claim for the Twin Towers. Go back to Iran/Iraq...Sadham would not sit at UN and bargin...remember? We asked him to back off, leave the oil alone, leave the people alone. He wouldn't. We went for him. He slipped out of our hands <yea, right>. We needed a reason to go back there to get him; and when the "Mass Weapons" fell through we used the BinLadin theory.

People....think for yourselves. Research for yourselves. There is a wealth of knowledge in libraries and on this Internet.

Also remember, as was brought up by this guy in a video, that in the days after 9-11, Bin Laden was making the claim that our government was implicitly involved in the "attacks". So, what do you do about someone who is speaking out? Why you make sure you kill him and make him an enemy of course!

Yup, of course, our government is out to get us and brainwash us. It is all the other countries that are innocent victims of our bullying. There really aren't any suicide bombs in Israel, that is only what our government wants us to believe so they can keep us under there thumbs.

Question: does the movie "Matrix" reflect the true reality of our world???

In fact yes it does. The government uses the media in actuality via the various types of programming to get their message out there. Entertainment is one way, but you have to be paying attention to see it. If you aren't, as I can tell you're not, you won't. There is a whole other reality hidden in plain sight if one would but open their eyes.

Furthermore, it's not just our government that does this brainwashing, it's pretty much all of them. They all have their own agendas, and here's a hint: IT'S NOT FOR OUR GOOD.

I am an engineer. I actually understand the math. I am not going by the media. I am going by what I learned in school.

School's are government funded too......just sayin.

Still though, math or not, are you gonna actually dare tell me that people who had loved ones DIE in this thing, are crazy too? Really?

Further, can you think of ANY other building that fell at free fall speed just from fire damage from a plane?

Well, let's see, no. Because there are no other buildings that have collapsed from a jumbo jet getting slammed into them at 600 MPH. Wait, that may be because the Twin Towers were the only ones that had that happen. Let me think about that for a moment...

Oh yeah, a little known fact, the Sears Tower was attacked that day as well. But because it wasn't part of the governmental plot, it was hushed up and the building quickly repaired. I forgot about that one.

Ok, you are right. The government is out to get us all and anyone that doubts a conspiracy is deluded and buying into the governmental propaganda. According to you, that is also world wide governmental propaganda. So, apparently, all the countries in the world are in collusion to keep us all dumb and brainwashed into following their little skits...

Why is it so hard to believe that people that lost loved ones on that day are crazy too? Whether or not someone you know died on that day does not lead any more or less credence to what you say. It isn't like they have more information than everyone else just because of that.

Actually, according to what you are saying, the people that lost loved ones on that day that don't believe in the conspiracy are crazy too. So, one group is.

Please, do me a favor and I will return the kindness.

Don't tell me what I am or am not doing and I won't do that to you either. You have now told me that I am being sucked in by the media and buying into their lies. And now you told me I am not paying attention.

I already told you that I do not watch the news and i do research to find source data for anything I find interesting.

So, how is that not paying attention exactly???

I can only call it as I see it, and from how I see it, you're not thinking clearly or looking deeply enough. Sorry if that offends you, but that's what I see.

and just how many high rise buildings have had a direct hit from a fully fueled 757?...2, that i know of... and they both fell

Fair enough, but what about the 3rd? What about Tower 7? Nothing hit that building, yet it fell at the same rate that the other two did!

tower 7 fell like what, 6-7 hours after the north and south tower fell? how many people would be around the area by then? not to mention cameras and video, helicopters and what not? and no one heard any explosions or glass breaking? how many explosions would it have taken to bring down a 52 story building?

That doesn't matter though, it still came down at the same rate, and the only damage that was done was fire damage. You're gonna tell me that's all it would take?

Oh and on the explosions there are people that were actually there that had heard explosions coming from the main towers incidentally. What would you say to that?

It doesn't offend me.

But you are passing judgments on me without knowing anything about me other than what I have said here.

You disagree with what I am saying. Fine, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. But, I can't remember the last time I invited you over to my house and you saw how I lived and what I do.

I see all of your arguments and see they are all built on a sand foundation. So I disagree. It isn't because I am not looking. It is because I am looking that I disagree with you.

I have yet to hear anything that you have said that I can point to a factual piece of information and say, "yes that makes sense."

I don't understand why conspiracy theorists reject factual information as tools of the government. Somehow, because the government gets involved, the laws of physics are now part of the conspiracy???

It is almost as if any factual information must be discarded because it is a tool of the government. Interesting in that it is a self propagating theory then. There is no way to disprove a belief when that belief exists by discarding facts not because of the facts.

Somehow, it is easier to believe the government snuck into the Twin Towers and planted explosives throughout the building to detonate at the right time without anyone knowing they were doing this. This would have taken an army of demolition engineers months to do. but it is somehow more believable than the laws of physics that took place on that day.

The only reason I can see that some people cannot believe the buildings fell as fast as they did without help is because they are made of steel structure. It is difficult to imagine the force required to bend an I-beam like a toothpick, therefore the falling building could not have fallen as quickly because it would take time and a ton of force to bend these things. it is a matter called momentum. Buildings were desined to hold up the structure, not catch it as it falls. For the most part, a lot of the strength in the building is being used just to keep it upright.

personally, I am a little surprised that the 400,000 pounds of jet didn't overtax the building by itself.

I'm not even gonna bother with you anymore, you're so blinded it isn't even funny. You can have your delusions, I've about had enough of this, it's just going nowhere.

As far as this goes, in the months prior to 9-11, there was a lot of work going on in the building, could it not be possible that they planted these explosives then?

it don't matter? thats all you can say? gravity is what makes things fall, it is a constant, things don't fall any faster or slower... when the main towers fell, people were running for their lives, and not paying attention. the explosions they thought they heard was the concrete being pulverized into dust...