Well, the assumption there is that people have "turned from God" in the first place.

Since I know that this isn't true for me, then I know that these fables are necessarily false.

I don't know if you turned from God or not. I can't say. I don't think they are false though. That's a great leap of faith.

a real christian dont judge any1.. we leave it to God to judge bcos he is da most high... we go to compare.com to compare our sins but to him all sin are equal

No, you're wrong. You won't be treated the SAME!

You're clearly confused, and you seem to always be confused on this very issues.

I speak to the issue of the actual DOCTRINE that a religion is based upon. I speak to the issue of the "God" that is portrayed by that DOCTRINE.

You keep speaking in terms of the "followers" of the doctrine and what they "think" they are being told to do.

I couldn't care LESS whether any "Christians" love me or not.

That's totally irrelevant.

It's the GOD the is described in this doctrine who will supposedly HATE you if you refuse to believe in him Cowboy.

So when you say, "And if you believe or you don't you will be treated the same."

That's simply not true with respect to what the actual religion is saying

If you don't believe in this God you will NOT be treated the same as those who believe in this God. On the contrary you will be treated as "heathen" who has rejected God and you will be cast into everlasting punishment (according to the fables in these doctrines)

You keep trying to make it about the "Christians" (i.e. the followers of the religion), and what you personally believe they are supposed to do.

I couldn't care less about that.

I speak to the issue of the Actual Religion.

I'm not the slightest bit interested in how you think you are supposed to behave or whatever. I'm looking at the RELIGION, not it's misguided followers.

How does that justify them as being false? Is not rejecting the knowledge we have of God, rejecting God in itself? Is not claiming for a document about our God being false then proclaiming for our God to be false? Is not proclaiming for our God to be false "turning away from God"?

Abcadabra, it is written, whoever denies me on earth I will deny before the Father. Our path is not an easy path. And sometimes, we have to say things that others may not like.

But, if a person continues to mock Christ, which she has done, there are going to be repercussions. If you read her posts, you cannot come away with anything other than that. If you honestly feel she is asking questions because she is desirous of answers, do I have a bridge to sell you.

As an example, if you ask a question, and someone replies to the question you ask, and then retort in a condescending fashion, then why ask the question in the first place? She is not asking to receive insight and knowledge; rather, she is asking for the sole purpose of antagonizing (these are her words).

As an example, she asked who wrote the gospels, and I replied that the authors of the gospels are written in the titles of the gospels. Her response was, "Do you believe that? Seriously?"

That is not someone who is questioning to receive insight, but rather to cause issues. We all should respect one another's viewpoints, and we can disagree without casting insults.

What you are doing is exactly what people should not do - you take something I post out of context. If you are going to quote me, you should do so in full. Taking one line without the context in which it is written is not right.

Getting back to your original point, there is going to come a judgment day. If a person is going to sit there and insult Christ, and expect there to be no ramifications, that person is in for a rude awakening. Now, this may seem harsh, but it is the truth.

Hope this clarifies things.

So you don't love your children if you punish them? Even if you warn them of the punishment before such cases happen? Is it not love to be informed of such things? Warned of not receiving the gift of heaven for such actions? Or again, is love not being informed and missing out on the gift that is there?

Can Satan cast out Satan?

When God says, "I am a jealous God," what is He saying?

He is saying that He gives us so much, we should make Him first and foremost in our lives. There should be no others gods (money is a god).

But here is the good news.

If we put God first, then everything else falls into place. We have better relationships. We don't have to worry about money because God will provide. We put our faith and trust in Him. That does not mean we don't have to do our part. God is not a genie. But, it does mean that if we do our part, He will do His part.

God made a covenant with us, and He will never leave or forsake us.

Exactly!!

Well, of course you can't know about me. But I can.

So this is why I know that these fables can't be true, because they are making claims that I know to be false.

Of course, you can ask this question of yourself. Only you can know the answer. If you're confident that you had indeed turned away from God, then I guess the religion can make sense to you.

It's kind of like if the police came and accused me of robbing a bank. I have no problem knowing whether or not I ever did any such thing. Therefore only I can know the truth of my guilt or innocence. To everyone else it must be proven.

But since I'm the one who is being asked to believe that I robbed a bank, I can know that it's false. I personally don't need any "proof" because I already know the truth.

It's the same way with a religious fable. If the fable is accusing me of having turned against God, and I know that's a false accusation, then there isn't much sense in me giving the rest of the fable any credence whatsoever. It's already demanding things that I know are not true.

That kind of spiritual philosophy is common to almost all religions. It's certainly a central theme of Eastern Mysticism as well. Although they don't put it in terms of a "jealous egotistical Godhead"

There's no need to turn that ideal into an idea of a God who hates people who refuse to worship a particular religion. All that does is serve to create religious bigotry and religious hatred in the name of God. It's serves no good purpose at all.

Abracadabra writes:

"There's no need to turn that ideal into an idea of a God who hates people who refuse to worship a particular religion."

God will never hate you, for God is love. However, a person cannot reject God and expect a free pass. If a person spends their lives denying Christ, denying God, then Christ will deny that person before the Father.

That is not me speaking, but Christ. Those are HIS words. You may agree or disagree with them, and that is your right. However, everyone will have a judgment (an individual or final one). If we are not on board with Christ, He is not going to be onboard with us.

Here is an example: the Father makes only TWO appearances in the New Testament: at Jesus' baptism and at the Transfiguration.

What does He say.

"This is my son
in whom I am well pleased.
Listen to Him."

If we do not listen to Christ, we are doing the Father a disservice.

"It is written...."


About that....

2000 years ago, not very many people could read let alone actually write. All writing had to be done by scribes. These scribes and the people who hired them had enormous power. After all, people believed that if someone would take all that time and effort to write something down, then it MUST BE TRUE.

Therefore all across the land anything that was "written" was automatically taken for truth and held sacred. To uneducated masses who could not read it was like magic to be able to look at a bunch of symbols and read what they said.

So back in days of old people would begin their sermons with "IT IS WRITTEN..."

This and this alone was a declaration that the sacred truth was being spread to the masses. Hence was born, the preacher.

That is not true. Jesus stated "It is written" to refute Satan's claim of "If you are the Son of God..." Jesus was basically succeeding where Adam failed.

Jesus said "It is written" because He knew that the Word is God. As a result, Satan had no ground on which to stand.

By the way, Jesus was an educated man. I am merely following the wisdom of his teachings.

I don't know about what Jesus may or may not have said. I was referring to your statement. YOU said.."It is written...." You were not quoting a verse. You were speaking to Abra as a preacher, and you were attempting to give weight to your own words by saying "It is written..."


In fact you did not even state that you were quoting Jesus. You were talking about yourself. I guess you are Jesus then?

JeannieBean writes:

"I don't know about what Jesus may or may not have said."

It's in the Bible. Let me know if you need the verses

"I was referring to your statement. YOU said.."It is written...." You were not quoting a verse.

Here is what I said:

"It is written, whoever denies me on earth I will deny before the Father."
This is a direct quote from Matthew 10:33.

"You were speaking to Abra as a preacher, and you were attempting to give weight to your own words by saying "It is written..."

They were not my words, but Christ's. And yes, I will give ALL the weight to His words, as well as give Him ALL the glory.

Okay, then next time will you please put the Bible quote in quotation marks? It is very confusing when you don't.

I could not tell who was actually saying "It is written..." none of it was in quotation marks.

I have seen people use that "It is written..." today with their own declarations about what God said and they are not quoting anyone.

I don't accept the Hebrew scriptures to be the verbatim word of God as you apparently do. And I don't fall for their lamb claims that God spoke to crowds of people from the sky.

If you want to do that, more power to you. But for you to use those scriptures in an attempt to pass judgment on other people's relationship with God is a truly misguided thing to do, IMHO.

By the way, I totally disagree with your conclusions about the following:

You say:


I'm not interested in the misguided hearsay superstitious rumors and claims about Jesus supposedly being "The Christ".

That not what Jesus was talking about at all.

Do I deny Jesus or God?

No not at all. On the contrary I have always supported the moral and behavioral teachings of Jesus and I continue to fully support those teachings. I also support the idea of a truly all-loving and all-righteous God.

What I renounce is Christian religious bigotry and their demand that Jesus was "The Christ".

That's totally unimportant. And it also totally misses the true value in the teachings of Jesus and only serves to overshadow them with absurd superstitions.

Jesus taught the same moral values that are taught by the great Eastern Mystics, and I have always support those moral values and truths, and continue to do so.

In fact, the best way for me to spread the teachings of Jesus is to point you to Buddhism, it's far more to the point and contains far less religious bigotry than Christianity. In fact, the original Buddhism contains absolutely no bigotry at all. Mahayana Buddhism strives to remove all religious bigotry as well. That's one of its major themes. The very word "Mahayana" means "Great Vehicle", and I'll leave it to you to study Mahayana Buddhism if you care to understand why it carries that name.

So, I don't reject Jesus or his teachings at all. On the contrary I fully support the teachings of Jesus as best as I can make them out from the Biblical hearsay garbage.

So, if you are stating that GOD IS LOVE and if you are suggesting or accusing me of rejecting GOD, then you are accusing me of rejecting LOVE.

I do NOT reject LOVE. I have stated that I have seen the light of Love and compassion and it has changed my life. I am truly blessed by and protected by a God that is Love.

"I am the way." (That is the inner divine spark of God)
"I am the truth" (That is the truth of who you are, the true self)
"I am the light." (That is the energy and the Life and Love.)

I have heard these things in me. I am that I am.

For you to judge me because I do not accept your symbolic stories and metaphoric statements and interpret them in the same manner you do, or in a manner that is comfortable for you, is wrong on your part.

Save yourself.
God is within all.

No one knows what the man named Jesus may or may not have said.

All we have to go by is confessed hearsay opinionated rumors by biased men who were clearly trying to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ".

They even claimed that God was speaking to people from the sky.

I see no reason to give such outrageous hearsay accounts much merit at all.

If God can speak to people so easily why even bother sending Jesus at all, why not just publicly broadcast his "New Covenant" from his heavenly PA system?

In fact, if God speaks to people so freely why have I never heard him speak to me from the sky? I was just outside a moment ago chopping firewood. The sky is perfectly clear, not a cloud to be seen. God could easily speak to me if he has something he things I should know.

But his silence indicates to me that there is nothing he feels that I need to know that I don't already know. Otherwise surely he would speak up. I doubt very much that God would be shy.

I don't recall anywhere in the bible where it suggests that God is shy.