I'm starting to think that most women (sorry for generalizations) forget what it is like for a guy to be themself. My main question would be, if you were attracted to me from the get go, why is it that you want me to change down the road? Why don't you just go out and find the guy that's got those qualities you're looking for in the first place?

BTW, I'm actually looking for honest answers, of course I'm sure the forum will go south eventually...

No guy is perfect.

Women latch onto the guy that fits most of the qualities she is looking for and then spend the rest of "the relationship" tweeking things and hoping for the best.

You asked and here's my opinion for what it's worth. You typically don't know the details until time passes by. No, neither should require changes but to make a relationship work, both should be willing to make accomodations, adjustments, and meet in the middle? If the guy had some kind of list easily read at first meeting regarding all of the ins and outs, what fun would that be? Plus I find that changes come about through experience and finding out something new about yourself by someone new enlightening the mind. AND there you have it....from li'l old me.

I've been trying to figure this out for years. Virtually everyone I've ever been involved with starts out saying "I love everything about you!" -- and a few months later, it's "Now I need to CHANGE everything about you!"

And that's when it ends, because I'm comfortable with who I am, and I really just don't see any purpose in allowing myself to become the polar opposite of that.

If you want someone who is NOT me, why bother with me in the first place? It makes no sense.

I don't want to change anybody... some women have a "fix it" issue, its been studied well enough....
accommodations and change should occur naturally as the relationship progresses without too much fight if any at all..if its compatible....

its the nature of things...

just roll with it..if it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't....when it comes to a front on certain behaviors...everyone has their line...if the other party isn't willing to change negative behavior to save the relationship..the relationship doesn't last...

Yea , what he said ...

I wana know too ...

(grass is always greener on the other side)

I understand that we change overtime. I'm more talking about when they try to change specific ways I do things, or think or act. Things that basically make me... me. Little things, no big deal.

I'm pretty upfront and honest about my likes and dislikes from the start, figure it is pointless to lead a woman astray.

some of us do

it's also easy to overlook small things at the beginning hoping that you will either be able to tolerate them or they will change as time goes on

but ya, I don't think that way any more

and sometimes partners do make small changes for each other because the value they place on the relationship out weighs other things

men do this too - in fact as we age, I think men are far worse about it than women

Same here, but what I've found is that it doesn't make any difference. They will lie to me in the beginning, because they want me to believe we're on the same page about the things that matter. Then, once they feel firmly ensconced in the relationship, the "I need to change you" agenda comes out.

The part I can't comprehend is why they can't just be honest from day one -- look, if you don't want the same sort of relationship I want, why lie about it and pretend you do? It's going to come out eventually.

Trust me, I agree with you. Certain things bug the **** outta me. But I'm also the type of guy that gets the big stuff outta the way before I even start dating a woman. Figure out if she is neat and orderly, has goals, is pro-military(didn't catch my last ex's dislike of the Air Force early on, big mistake), and now the big one is a not having trust issues. I can only get blamed for cheating so many times before I wonder if she is trying to cover her own *un*faithfulness... For the record, I don't cheat. Was cheated on by my first fiancee, and refuse to put anybody through that kind of pain.

people don't want stagnant relationships...those are bad

those little things might mean more than you think they do take a minute to look at it from her perspective....and also perhaps you could tell her to maybe see it in a different light....


for example....for years this wife asked her husband to do the dishes when she had to work
well he started doing the dishes but she hated that he never ran the garbage disposal
this little argument put a huge strain on their relationship
until she realized that all she had to do was run the disposal when she got home...he had already done the dishes.

what a great point

change can be good or bad
stagnant gets old

even when we are single, we should be CHANGING as we get older and wiser, improvement is one type of change that we can all shoot for in some area of our life or another


I want someone who inspires me to be my best, and I want to do the same for them,,,,it doesnt mean we dont already love each other the way we are, it just means we know that we are not yet ALL we can be and we dont want something STALE ,,,,,

now if you are talking about changing a promiscuous woman or a career woman into a housewife, thats something totally different

or if you want a ladies man to become monogomous,,,you are probably setting yourself up for disappointment

but once you say you love and want to BE with someone , that means you are accepting everything you KNOW about them(so far), it doesnt mean you will necessarily still accept every thing else they might develop into

it means you want a relationship on the grounds of what you already have


I think communication, as cliche as it sounds, is the key to all of this though. Because I certainly have an idea if I am who he wants if he is COMMUNICATING honestly what that is from the beginning, and so does he if I communicate it. The problem is people trying to keep peace just to be in a relationship where there are really many things about the relationship or the other person which trouble them.

Reminds me of my dad's favorite idea now. My mother would never turn off the water heater after she didn't need hot water. After years of fighting with her to turn it off he finally went out and got a timer for the switch and set it to turn off automatically around 10AM, after showers, laundry and such were done. Says to this day he wishes he just thought of a better solution or just took his *** out to the shop and made more money...

well and I would also ask what things women have been asking the OP to change - does he drink like a frat boy and hang with guys every night and not call her till midnight

ya that SHOULD change - and I'm not saying he does this - but if you get a few different women asking that you change something there could be a message there and not for the women....for you

I know if I have 3 or 4 men make the same issue with me - I'd consider a change - especially if they were 3 or 4 individual men saying it independently of each other...either that or I'd look close at the kind of men I was dating - like if they are all heavy drinkers, and all giving me grief - I'd chalk it up to booze and look for a non or light drinker...as an example

I dont try to change a guy, if i am with him its because i like him for who he is. NOw...do i suggest things? sure! but at the end of the day he decides whether to go with the long sleeve shirt or his reg tshirt

The drinking thing was reversed in one of my past relationships. She was a mother of two and wanted to get plastered every weekend she didn't have the rugrats. Of course, I spent my college years in a fraternity, and outgrew that. Sucked...

Good question. I wondered that about my last husband. He loved my fun loving self when we met and as soon as we got married, he wanted to transform me into his personal slave, secretary, cook, housekeeper, etc. Suddenly the person I was before we got married was unacceptable.

So it goes both ways guys.

well really I didn't mean that you do that

but there is a difference between someone wanting us to change in ways that are unreasonable - like I will always sleep in on weekends don't EVEN go there trying to change that

but if I were a smoker and a non smoking man wanted me to quit - I'd try cuz I know he's right

and BTW women with trust issues are ones who have been burned usually multiple times

partners need to make sure that they do nothing to cause doubt or suspicion

Is it too much to ask for people to love the ones they "love" for the person they fell in "love" with...

Oh well, the search will continue and hopefully one day the one that won't try to change the things that make me, me will come along...

I will not change you.....just don't try to change me....let's just work together...and have all the pieces drop into place.