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| Topic: Does God even care? | |
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mirriam websters two cents Noun 1. scientific fact - an observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true (although its truth is never final) kind of makes religions scientific facts too,,,,but its all subjective I suppose,,, No, actually it's more about accepting that there are some things science and those who practice science do not attempt to know or to prove. Science and those who practice it, understand the limitations of that field of knowledge. It would be more logical to say that the souces of knowledge are based on subjective interpretation. Of course being logical is more difficult when a person's religious doctrine contains elements of exclusivity pertaining to the one and ony true source of knowledge. Kinda puts the damper on recognizing any other source for the attainment of knowledge, doesn't it? |
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Nevermind, I figured this question would ultimately go nowhere, and it pretty much has. Sorry, but if I go around preaching about a tooth fairy and say "I have felt the tooth fairy" that hardly qualifies as proof that the tooth fairy exists. Continue doing whatever the hell it was that you were doing in this thread.  No probs...and thanks...
there still is no f*cking god... 
Well then how do think all those human infestations called spirits are being made? |
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Edited by
Thomas3474
on
Mon 12/20/10 12:13 AM
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The only thing harder than trying to understand God is understanding the stupidity of people.We all know we are going to die.Nobody is going to deny that.Seriously wouldn't you rather believe in any God then dying a Atheist and risking Hell for ever?If I was a Atheist I wouldn't take that risk.I would believe in a God that 1.)seems like the best choice and 2.)is the most popular.
You should also remember that people die everyday in the name of Christianity.Christians are prosecuted more than anyone else in the world and it is only getting worse.When was the last time you heard anyone dying in the name of Hinduism or Buddhism?Christians die for what they believe because they know it's true.They will bet their life on it. I'm sure you will say "but Muslims die for their religion also"?There is a world of difference between Muslims dying for their faith and Christians dying for their faith.Muslims kill people for what they believe in.Christians die because of what they believe in.Muslims kill to conquer and rule.Christians die as victims of their faith in Jesus. |
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God came from the bible! Without the bible we would know NOTHING of God! Unless you count hearsay from other people. Unless you count hearsay from other people? That's exactly what the Bible is. It's just hearsay from other people. EVERYTHING is hearsay with you way of thinking. You can not "prove" Columbus discovered America. You can not "prove" Anything from the past without using some form of hearsay rumour(s). What makes it a fact is it's excepted as such. But nevertheless it's hearsay rumours. All history of the different Countries through the world is hearsay rumours. There is absolutely NO way to "prove" anything in history without using "hearsay" rumours. So what makes the bible any different then any other form of history? That's not true. First off, I don't necessarily believe a lot of history. Also, from what I understand the Vikings supposedly discovered America before Columbus. But in truth I really don't care who discovered America. I didn't know Columbus so it's just a name to me, it may as well have been Mr. Pumpernickle. It's just a name to me. Secondly, the Bible doesn't even come close to qualifying as a 'history book'. The people who wrote it were not educated or qualified historians, nor did they collaborate with independent and unbiased sources to verify their information. On the contrary when you read the gospels it's crystal clear that they are starting out with an extreme agenda to make a particular case. They aren't even presenting various views and offering the reader to make up their own mind. They are going far out of their way to try to convince the readers of their agenda even to the point of things like claiming that a voice spoke from heaven itself proclaiming that Jesus was the son of God. 
That's clearly not a history book, that's as mythological at it gets. And it even came from a region where these kind of mythologies were commonplace, right up to, and including Gods who are appeased by blood sacrifices. It isn't even an ORIGINAL myth that hadn't already been done before. Finally, if you want real knowledge try science. That's the only TRUE WORD OF GOD. You can't get get any closer to God than that. First off you don't believe a lot of history for it is hearsay and there's no way to give it solid proof. Yet the culture does consider it history. Same with the bible. And no thank you I don't wish to learn science. I'll put my attention to our father. At least our father doesn't change every now and then. God is who he is and has always been who he is. He doesn't change with the whim of people. |
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First off you don't believe a lot of history for it is hearsay and there's no way to give it solid proof. Yet the culture does consider it history. Same with the bible. And no thank you I don't wish to learn science. I'll put my attention to our father. At least our father doesn't change every now and then. God is who he is and has always been who he is. He doesn't change with the whim of people. I addressed this in another thread. The New Testament was written by less than a dozen authors. All of whom clearly had a strongly biased agenda to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ". There is absolute no opposing views in the Biblical Cannon, yet we know with absolute certainty that such opposing views clearly existed. The the very culture from whence these myths supposedly came rejected them as having no merit! The Jews are still not Christians to this very day. Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream. You don't wish to learn science, instead you choose wallow in the unsubstantiated myths of less than a dozen highly questionable clearly biased authors who's views weren't even accepted by their own culture? Hey that's your choice. But to ask other people to think that way isn't likely to go over very well. I'll take the unbiased and highly confirmed information from thousands of honest people who are sincerely seeking TRUTH and who are working hard to show when something might not be TRUE. (i.e. Scientists) If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth". That's just absurd, IMHO. |
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First off you don't believe a lot of history for it is hearsay and there's no way to give it solid proof. Yet the culture does consider it history. Same with the bible. And no thank you I don't wish to learn science. I'll put my attention to our father. At least our father doesn't change every now and then. God is who he is and has always been who he is. He doesn't change with the whim of people. I addressed this in another thread. The New Testament was written by less than a dozen authors. All of whom clearly had a strongly biased agenda to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ". There is absolute no opposing views in the Biblical Cannon, yet we know with absolute certainty that such opposing views clearly existed. The the very culture from whence these myths supposedly came rejected them as having no merit! The Jews are still not Christians to this very day. Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream. You don't wish to learn science, instead you choose wallow in the unsubstantiated myths of less than a dozen highly questionable clearly biased authors who's views weren't even accepted by their own culture? Hey that's your choice. But to ask other people to think that way isn't likely to go over very well. I'll take the unbiased and highly confirmed information from thousands of honest people who are sincerely seeking TRUTH and who are working hard to show when something might not be TRUE. (i.e. Scientists) If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth". That's just absurd, IMHO. The Jews are still not Christians to this very day. The only reason Jews are not "Christian" is because they do not see Jesus as the promised messiah, they do not see Jesus as the only begotten child of God. They are like you, they can be shown a scripture that shows differently and they refuse to give merit to that of which they were shown. They come up with excuses such as you that they had an agenda to paint Jesus out to be the messiah. |
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First off you don't believe a lot of history for it is hearsay and there's no way to give it solid proof. Yet the culture does consider it history. Same with the bible. And no thank you I don't wish to learn science. I'll put my attention to our father. At least our father doesn't change every now and then. God is who he is and has always been who he is. He doesn't change with the whim of people. I addressed this in another thread. The New Testament was written by less than a dozen authors. All of whom clearly had a strongly biased agenda to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ". There is absolute no opposing views in the Biblical Cannon, yet we know with absolute certainty that such opposing views clearly existed. The the very culture from whence these myths supposedly came rejected them as having no merit! The Jews are still not Christians to this very day. Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream. You don't wish to learn science, instead you choose wallow in the unsubstantiated myths of less than a dozen highly questionable clearly biased authors who's views weren't even accepted by their own culture? Hey that's your choice. But to ask other people to think that way isn't likely to go over very well. I'll take the unbiased and highly confirmed information from thousands of honest people who are sincerely seeking TRUTH and who are working hard to show when something might not be TRUE. (i.e. Scientists) If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth". That's just absurd, IMHO. Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream. Sure scientists can be biased. They are biased to the field of science they are associated with. They will come up with any and all reasons to state that what they have found is fact and the truth. That is why there is quite a bit of controversy throughout the Science area. One scientist thinks this, then that scientist disagrees with that scientist. Then another scientist totally disagree with both. Ect. Simple as some scientist believe we evolved from apes and or the primate category. Some think we came from the big bang theory and just all of a sudden existed. So please don't spread lies stating science isn't biased. |
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First off you don't believe a lot of history for it is hearsay and there's no way to give it solid proof. Yet the culture does consider it history. Same with the bible. And no thank you I don't wish to learn science. I'll put my attention to our father. At least our father doesn't change every now and then. God is who he is and has always been who he is. He doesn't change with the whim of people. I addressed this in another thread. The New Testament was written by less than a dozen authors. All of whom clearly had a strongly biased agenda to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ". There is absolute no opposing views in the Biblical Cannon, yet we know with absolute certainty that such opposing views clearly existed. The the very culture from whence these myths supposedly came rejected them as having no merit! The Jews are still not Christians to this very day. Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream. You don't wish to learn science, instead you choose wallow in the unsubstantiated myths of less than a dozen highly questionable clearly biased authors who's views weren't even accepted by their own culture? Hey that's your choice. But to ask other people to think that way isn't likely to go over very well. I'll take the unbiased and highly confirmed information from thousands of honest people who are sincerely seeking TRUTH and who are working hard to show when something might not be TRUE. (i.e. Scientists) If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth". That's just absurd, IMHO. If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth". I nor other Christians worship the ones that wrote the bible. We only worship and praise God our father which art in heaven. And so what if it's "ancient". Give the world another few hundred years and the "theories" science has now that is seen as fact will then be seen as ancient hearsay rumours. Just because it's old doesn't make it any less true. Just because it was found be a less "civilized" time and age doesn't make it any less true either. Again just as in a few hundred years how they will look back on the generation that is here now. And maybe not just a few hundred years, but even a thousand years from now and so forth. |
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well thats also what you doing hearsay of your opinion but yours is not proof the bible there is proof thats the different you can put down the bible and God but he is Watching you and knows everything look at Noah and the ark in the bible other took no note and also if you don't believe that .....why is 3/4 of the earth covered in water? right ?...now the bible has 100% truth full facts like talks about wars famines food shortages and all this is found in Matthew 24 talks about last days may God open up your heart to understanding instead of being ignorant or rude on the subject God bless I have no need to prove anything. Christians are the ones who need to prove their claims. I'm just telling you why I don't believe any of it. I don't care whether you believe me or not. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Mon 12/20/10 05:59 PM
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Cheer Up wrote:
Well Abracadabra i just did i proved there was as the Bible stated Noahs ark and the scientist say they found part of the ark so now what ?????? is science wrong too? or did they find the ark? that was from the bible? and why is 3/4 of the earth covered in water? and if you have nothing to prove in here then why are you trying to prove the bible wrong and the writers wrong??? so you seem to just to contradict yourself alot i see what i see is you just like to try and put down stuff that is true and also see you don't listen or i should say watch when people give you a logic answer i also see you love to argue with alot of people in these threads about nothing you know about cause you said people got to prove? in other words if your mind can't take in a knowledge of a true fact then not sure what people can do if you ask a question and get a logic answer and proof then its very simple to understand :))))) GOD BLESS I'm not trying to prove anything. If you think I am that's your own misconception. I simply give my views as to why I personally don't believe the claims that the Bible represents the word of any all-wise God. I offer my reasons and I do consider them to be sufficient "proof" for me. If you disagree, fine. Moreover, I don't need to prove that the Bible is "not" the word of any God. Who cares? You are the one who appears to be on a mission to convince people that it is. Thus the proof of that is entirely on you. You are the one who is in need of proving your claims if you expect to convince people of your claims. All I'm doing is explaining to you why I don't buy into your claims. Again, allow me to offer some of my reasons: I personally don't believe that an all-wise supreme being would be appeased by, or associated with, blood sacrifices to atone disobedience. I'll grant you that this is merely my personal view and opinion. And therefore I don't need to prove it. It's how I feel. You'd have a hard time trying to prove to me that the biblical God isn't associated with these things. I'm pretty sure that you would need to re-write the Bible in order to do that. So you're next best approach might be to try to convince me that this should somehow make sense. Good luck with that too. As a mortal man I feel that I'm personally above such primitive and crude behavior, so why should I even remotely believe that a being that is supposedly infinitely wiser and more mature than myself would be associated with such ignorant behavior? From my point of view, this is just more Zeus-like mythology. How is it any different? It really isn't in general terms. And most people dismiss Zeus without a second thought. So, I've already rejected the Old Testament on many grounds, (this being only one of many). And the New Testament is even worse since it contains a blood sacrifices of a supposedly innocent man for the purpose of atoning sins. It's just a continuation of what I have already dismissed as being totally unreasonable and unintelligent. So I see no reason whatsoever to believe the rumors that these stories have anything at all to do with any supposedly 'all-wise' God. Now, to close the case forever, I even have a perfectly sound explanation for all of these biblical stories. 1. The Old Testament is nothing more than a Zeus-like fable. That makes perfect sense. 2. Jesus was a Jewish Mystic who was knowledgeable of the ways of Mahayana Buddhism, and he was probably also a Bodhisattva. This all fits in perfectly with the moral values that have been attributed to Jesus, as well as his behavior with his "disciples". The moral teachings of Jesus fit perfectly with the moral values taught by the Mahayana Buddhists, and do not match the teachings in the Old Testament at all. 3. The New Testament is just rumors about the life of Jesus that try to make him out to be something that he wasn't. Obviously in an attempt to use the rumors about him to support the very religion that Jesus himself apparently disagreed with, IMHO. So there you go. I don't need to "prove" any of these claims. They are clearly possible, and that's all they need to be. They are reasonable. Far more reasonable than the idea of a supposedly infinitely wise God who is associated with blood sacrifices, IMHO. ~~~~ So there, as you can see, I haven't tried to 'prove' anything. All I did was offer reasons why I don't believe it, and I offered a very reasonable explanation of how it all came to be in the first place. From my point of view there are simply far better pictures of God and spirituality to be had. So I see no reason to believe in a picture of a God who condones things such as blood sacrifices and male-superiority, etc. I just have no use for those kinds of things. They appear to me to be the types of things that would be associated with an extremely unwise and unintelligent being. Therefore I see absolutely no reason to believe that these stories have anything to do with any all-wise God. You can address my concerns if you like, but I seriously doubt that you are going to convince me that an all-wise being would be associated with the rude and crude things that are associated with the Bible. To be perfectly honest with you, it makes me quite sad to see people constantly proselyting those rude and crude ideas, especially when they use them to support religious bigotry against all other religions, and to support hostile feelings toward the lifestyles of others simply because their biblical god supposedly doesn't like certain things, and to support ignorance over scientific knowledge. So, yes, I see the religion as being disruptive to peace, and the intellectual advancement of mankind. And I confess that I don't appreciate that in the least. From my point of view it's a cancer on humanity. |
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Cheer Up wrote:
Well Abracadabra i just did i proved there was as the Bible stated Noahs ark and the scientist say they found part of the ark so now what ?????? is science wrong too? or did they find the ark? that was from the bible? and why is 3/4 of the earth covered in water? and if you have nothing to prove in here then why are you trying to prove the bible wrong and the writers wrong??? so you seem to just to contradict yourself alot i see what i see is you just like to try and put down stuff that is true and also see you don't listen or i should say watch when people give you a logic answer i also see you love to argue with alot of people in these threads about nothing you know about cause you said people got to prove? in other words if your mind can't take in a knowledge of a true fact then not sure what people can do if you ask a question and get a logic answer and proof then its very simple to understand :))))) GOD BLESS I'm not trying to prove anything. If you think I am that's your own misconception. I simply give my views as to why I personally don't believe the claims that the Bible represents the word of any all-wise God. I offer my reason and I do consider them to be sufficient "proof" for me. If you disagree, fine. Moreover, I don't need to prove that the Bible is "not" the word of any God. Who cares? You are the one who appears to be on a mission to convince people that it is. Thus the proof of that is entirely on you. You are the one who is in need of proving your claims if you expect to convince people of your claims. All I'm doing is explaining to you why I don't buy into your claims. Again, allow me to offer some of my reasons: 1. I personally don't believe that an all-wise supreme being would be appeased by, or associated with, blood sacrifices to atone disobedience. I'll grant you that this is merely my personal view and opinion. And therefore I don't need to prove it. It's how I feel. You'd have a hard time trying to prove to me that the biblical God isn't associated with these things. I'm pretty sure that you would need to re-write the Bible in order to do that. So you're next best approach might be to try to convince me that this should somehow make sense. Good luck with that too. As a mortal man I feel that I'm personally above such primitive and crude behavior, so why should I even remotely believe that a being that is supposedly infinitely wiser and more mature than myself would be associated with such ignorant behavior? From my point of view, this is just more Zeus-like mythology. How is it any different? It really isn't in general terms. And most people dismiss Zeus without a second thought. So, I've already rejected the Old Testament on many grounds, (this being only one of many). And the New Testament is even worse since it contains a blood sacrifices of a supposedly innocent man for the purpose of atoning sins. It's just a continuation of what I have already dismissed as being totally unreasonable and unintelligent. So I see no reason whatsoever to believe the rumors that these stories have anything at all to do with any supposedly 'all-wise' God. Now, to close the case forever, I even have a perfectly sound explanation for all of these biblical stories. 1. The Old Testament is nothing more than a Zeus-like fable. That makes perfect sense. 2. Jesus was a Jewish Mystic who was knowledgeable of the ways of Mahayana Buddhism, and he was probably also a Bodhisattva. This all fits in perfectly with the moral values that have been attributed to Jesus, as well as his behavior with his "disciples". The moral teachings of Jesus fit perfectly with the moral values taught by the Mahayana Buddhists, and do not match the teachings in the Old Testament at all. 3. The New Testament is just rumors about the life of Jesus that try to make him out to be something that he wasn't. Obviously in an attempt to use the rumors about him to support the very religion that Jesus himself apparently disagreed with, IMHO. So there you go. I don't need to "prove" any of these claims. They are clearly possible, and that's all they need to be. They are reasonable. Far more reasonable than the idea of a supposedly infinitely wise God who is associated with blood sacrifices, IMHO. ~~~~ So there, as you can see, I haven't tried to 'prove' anything. All I did was offer reasons why I don't believe it, and I offered a very reasonable explanation of how it all came to be in the first place. From my point of view there are simply far better pictures of God and spirituality to be had. So I see no reason to believe in a picture of a God who condones things such as blood sacrifices and male-superiority, etc. I just have no use for those kinds of things. They appear to me to be the types of things that would be associated with an extremely unwise and unintelligent being. Therefore I see absolutely no reason to believe that these stories have anything to do with any all-wise God. You can address my concerns if you like, but I seriously doubt that you are going to convince me that an all-wise being would be associated with the rude and crude things that are associated with the Bible. To be perfectly honest with you, it makes me quite sad to see people constantly proselyting those rude and crude ideas, especially when they use them to support religious bigotry against all other religions, and to support hostile feelings toward the lifestyles of others simply because their biblical god supposedly doesn't like certain things, and to support ignorance over scientific knowledge. So, yes, I see the religion as being disruptive to peace, and the intellectual advancement of mankind. And I confess that I don't appreciate that in the least. From my point of view it's a cancer on humanity. 1. I personally don't believe that an all-wise supreme being would be appeased by, or associated with, blood sacrifices to atone disobedience. Since you like giving your opinion. What is your opinion on a better way of showing remorse in asking for forgiveness? Would it have just been better off if all you had to do was say "Father forgive me, I screwed up"? And be forgive of that sin which you are asking forgiveness of? If it was as simple as that, people could go kill someone, then drop to their knees and say "Father forgive me, I was angry and I lost control. I'm sorry" The purpose of sacrificing something in order to receive forgiveness is because it was giving up something one needs. If you are willing to give up something you need, then you must be telling the truth for you needed that object that you sacrificed. That's what the word sacrifice itself means. To give up something important to someone else. And again it wasn't specifically the "blood" that was so important for the sacrifice. Reason "blood" sacrifices were done was because that is the most important thing. You can not live without your blood it is so important. And at this time being referenced about the blood sacrifice it was a very important entity because blood = protein = muscle. And in those days everyone do alot of physical labour and needed to be physically fit for survival. Survival of the fittest if you will. Your life is the most valuable thing to oneself. You can not put a price on oneself it is so valuable. Thus is why the sacrifice Jesus made for us was so incredibly great. That and Jesus didn't HAVE to feel the pain of death if he had not wanted. Which is another sacrifice. He allowed himself to go through that for YOU. |
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Cheer Up wrote:
Well Abracadabra i just did i proved there was as the Bible stated Noahs ark and the scientist say they found part of the ark so now what ?????? is science wrong too? or did they find the ark? that was from the bible? and why is 3/4 of the earth covered in water? and if you have nothing to prove in here then why are you trying to prove the bible wrong and the writers wrong??? so you seem to just to contradict yourself alot i see what i see is you just like to try and put down stuff that is true and also see you don't listen or i should say watch when people give you a logic answer i also see you love to argue with alot of people in these threads about nothing you know about cause you said people got to prove? in other words if your mind can't take in a knowledge of a true fact then not sure what people can do if you ask a question and get a logic answer and proof then its very simple to understand :))))) GOD BLESS I'm not trying to prove anything. If you think I am that's your own misconception. I simply give my views as to why I personally don't believe the claims that the Bible represents the word of any all-wise God. I offer my reasons and I do consider them to be sufficient "proof" for me. If you disagree, fine. Moreover, I don't need to prove that the Bible is "not" the word of any God. Who cares? You are the one who appears to be on a mission to convince people that it is. Thus the proof of that is entirely on you. You are the one who is in need of proving your claims if you expect to convince people of your claims. All I'm doing is explaining to you why I don't buy into your claims. Again, allow me to offer some of my reasons: I personally don't believe that an all-wise supreme being would be appeased by, or associated with, blood sacrifices to atone disobedience. I'll grant you that this is merely my personal view and opinion. And therefore I don't need to prove it. It's how I feel. You'd have a hard time trying to prove to me that the biblical God isn't associated with these things. I'm pretty sure that you would need to re-write the Bible in order to do that. So you're next best approach might be to try to convince me that this should somehow make sense. Good luck with that too. As a mortal man I feel that I'm personally above such primitive and crude behavior, so why should I even remotely believe that a being that is supposedly infinitely wiser and more mature than myself would be associated with such ignorant behavior? From my point of view, this is just more Zeus-like mythology. How is it any different? It really isn't in general terms. And most people dismiss Zeus without a second thought. So, I've already rejected the Old Testament on many grounds, (this being only one of many). And the New Testament is even worse since it contains a blood sacrifices of a supposedly innocent man for the purpose of atoning sins. It's just a continuation of what I have already dismissed as being totally unreasonable and unintelligent. So I see no reason whatsoever to believe the rumors that these stories have anything at all to do with any supposedly 'all-wise' God. Now, to close the case forever, I even have a perfectly sound explanation for all of these biblical stories. 1. The Old Testament is nothing more than a Zeus-like fable. That makes perfect sense. 2. Jesus was a Jewish Mystic who was knowledgeable of the ways of Mahayana Buddhism, and he was probably also a Bodhisattva. This all fits in perfectly with the moral values that have been attributed to Jesus, as well as his behavior with his "disciples". The moral teachings of Jesus fit perfectly with the moral values taught by the Mahayana Buddhists, and do not match the teachings in the Old Testament at all. 3. The New Testament is just rumors about the life of Jesus that try to make him out to be something that he wasn't. Obviously in an attempt to use the rumors about him to support the very religion that Jesus himself apparently disagreed with, IMHO. So there you go. I don't need to "prove" any of these claims. They are clearly possible, and that's all they need to be. They are reasonable. Far more reasonable than the idea of a supposedly infinitely wise God who is associated with blood sacrifices, IMHO. ~~~~ So there, as you can see, I haven't tried to 'prove' anything. All I did was offer reasons why I don't believe it, and I offered a very reasonable explanation of how it all came to be in the first place. From my point of view there are simply far better pictures of God and spirituality to be had. So I see no reason to believe in a picture of a God who condones things such as blood sacrifices and male-superiority, etc. I just have no use for those kinds of things. They appear to me to be the types of things that would be associated with an extremely unwise and unintelligent being. Therefore I see absolutely no reason to believe that these stories have anything to do with any all-wise God. You can address my concerns if you like, but I seriously doubt that you are going to convince me that an all-wise being would be associated with the rude and crude things that are associated with the Bible. To be perfectly honest with you, it makes me quite sad to see people constantly proselyting those rude and crude ideas, especially when they use them to support religious bigotry against all other religions, and to support hostile feelings toward the lifestyles of others simply because their biblical god supposedly doesn't like certain things, and to support ignorance over scientific knowledge. So, yes, I see the religion as being disruptive to peace, and the intellectual advancement of mankind. And I confess that I don't appreciate that in the least. From my point of view it's a cancer on humanity. To be perfectly honest with you, it makes me quite sad to see people constantly proselyting those rude and crude ideas, especially when they use them to support religious bigotry against all other religions, and to support hostile feelings toward the lifestyles of others simply because their biblical god supposedly doesn't like certain things, and to support ignorance over scientific knowledge. No hostile feelings towards anyone or anything. We love you just the same as we love our Christian brother, a priest, the hobo down the street, or anyone for that matter. Absolutely no hostile feelings. We do not look down at you or look at you in a negative way just because you do not believe. We still love you unconditionally and wish you the best. Thus the reason we continue on telling you of the father even at times it seems it's a loosing battle. That just makes us work even harder for we wish for you to be in the paradise of heaven. |
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Edited by
davidben1
on
Mon 12/20/10 06:58 PM
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what does it matter if another human goes to heaven?
what does it matter if another human goes to hell? if it matters so much, then those with unconditional love, the christains can go to hell in my place, since they claim unconditional love, which is willing to take the pain for another, and i shall work on creating heaven here on earth, which is but a caring place where all are treated as equal... but didn't it say heaven would be created on EARTH? hum... i smell a rat, a shrew, a deceit, propoagted by mortal tongues, hewn forth from self serving wants to get to heaven again! damn cowboy, in the other thread, you said you were against living for a reward for self! and now your over here tryin to get other people to live for a self reward of heaven for themself? damn... thats a total opposite. if self says living for no reward for self, is the good way of god, than how can it tell other's to hope to get there, or want a reward for themself, and now pose such as good motive or belief? hum... |
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mirriam websters two cents Noun 1. scientific fact - an observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true (although its truth is never final) kind of makes religions scientific facts too,,,,but its all subjective I suppose,,, No, actually it's more about accepting that there are some things science and those who practice science do not attempt to know or to prove. Science and those who practice it, understand the limitations of that field of knowledge. It would be more logical to say that the souces of knowledge are based on subjective interpretation. Of course being logical is more difficult when a person's religious doctrine contains elements of exclusivity pertaining to the one and ony true source of knowledge. Kinda puts the damper on recognizing any other source for the attainment of knowledge, doesn't it? I guess that depends upon interpretation and context,,,imagine, 2000 years from now what will be said about our civilization and how all that CURRENTLY is happening will be condensed into several books all originating with the FIRST of its kind,,,, I see the bible as a condensed history from several sources, instead of just one source,,,, much like the United Kingdom is actually several countries which were united into one which leaves the information, like the country, formally one source, but in actuality a collection of sources |
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what does it matter if another human goes to heaven? what does it matter if another human goes to hell? if it matters so much, then those with unconditional love, the christains can go to hell in my place, since they claim unconditional love, which is willing to take the pain for another, and i shall work on creating heaven here on earth, which is but a caring place where all are treated as equal... but didn't it say heaven would be created on EARTH? hum... i smell a rat, a shrew, a deceit, propoagted by mortal tongues, hewn forth from self serving wants to get to heaven again! damn cowboy, in the other thread, you said you were against living for a reward for self! and now your over here tryin to get other people to live for a self reward of heaven for themself? damn... thats a total opposite. if self says living for no reward for self, is the good way of god, than how can it tell other's to hope to get there, or want a reward for themself, and now pose such as good motive or belief? hum... what does it matter if another human goes to heaven? what does it matter if another human goes to hell? It matters to me if one goes to heaven. Heaven is a glorious place. Full of love. Nothing bad, no disease, no sickness, no death. Just life and love. It matters to me if one doesn't make it to heaven for what they have missed out on. I do not wish for one person to miss out on such an opurtunity. and now your over here tryin to get other people to live for a self reward of heaven for themself? No, again you're stuck on reward for oneself. AGAIN, doing something that appears to be loving in hopes of some form of prize is in vein, is pointless. So no, not trying to get people to be obedient for oneself. Trying to open people's eyes so that they would be obedient out of love and honour of our heavenly father. WHY ARE YOU STUCK ON REWARD FOR ONESELF? I wish EVERYONE to be in heaven with our heavenly father. Doing things to achieve this isn't in hopes of bettering oneself. It is to get the opportunity to see our father and love and worship him for eternity. Right next to our loved ones, spending more loving times making more memories with the ones we hold dearest to ourselves. I can't help it you're stuck on bettering oneself. |
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what does it matter if another human goes to heaven? what does it matter if another human goes to hell? if it matters so much, then those with unconditional love, the christains can go to hell in my place, since they claim unconditional love, which is willing to take the pain for another, and i shall work on creating heaven here on earth, which is but a caring place where all are treated as equal... but didn't it say heaven would be created on EARTH? hum... i smell a rat, a shrew, a deceit, propoagted by mortal tongues, hewn forth from self serving wants to get to heaven again! damn cowboy, in the other thread, you said you were against living for a reward for self! and now your over here tryin to get other people to live for a self reward of heaven for themself? damn... thats a total opposite. if self says living for no reward for self, is the good way of god, than how can it tell other's to hope to get there, or want a reward for themself, and now pose such as good motive or belief? hum... And also notice in my post that shows your comment of self reward to be false. [That just makes us work even harder for we wish for you to be in the paradise of heaven. ] Notice I said "we wish for YOU to be in the paradise of heaven" YOU my friend, there is nothing of self gained there. It is for YOU. |
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Everytime you read a militant Christian claiming it's all about what they want for the Unbeliever?
Don't believe it. It's all about THEM. What they believe MUST be believed or they'll "love" you until you do. Even though they don't know the first thing about you, or you are 3 times their age and experience level. Doesn't matter that they don't know an asymptote from a microfissure. They read the Bible and that makes THEM experts on the Universe without the messy college courses in Physics, Biology and Chemistry and YOU a poor dumb sap for wasting your time in pursuit of a better understanding of the physical reality that can be touched, obeys laws that aren't biased towards belief and that take a lot of WORK to understand. That's what makes me the most uncomfortable being around militant Christians-- they listen with their mouths and call it love. When it's really narcissism. I guess that's what comes of being too insecure to allow other people to choose a different way of looking at and understanding Life, the Universe and Everything. -Kerry O. |
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Nevermind, I figured this question would ultimately go nowhere, and it pretty much has. Sorry, but if I go around preaching about a tooth fairy and say "I have felt the tooth fairy" that hardly qualifies as proof that the tooth fairy exists. Continue doing whatever the hell it was that you were doing in this thread. No probs...and thanks...
there still is no f*cking god...
Well then how do think all those human infestations called spirits are being made? Hmmmm...which human infestations?...and what made?...can they not have always been here?...fragments of the same consciousness?...and no not a godhead like consciousness...perhaps nothing more than a vibrationary energy synchronised with the common vibration called human? |
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that is not the nature of every human, humans have choices and they live with the consequence of the choices they make, and often times so do those who love them God takes a gamble on us and I am glad he feels we are worth it even if its sometimes hard for US to see it,, This is what I'm trying to figure out, how, with the multitudes of perfect beings in the insect, animal, and plant kingdom...can you say that God feels we are worth it? What makes anyone think that God is waiting for humans and not some other living being? See the selfish nature of humanity? We are already under the frame of mind that God is waiting for us and not something else, no offense intended of course...but it does prove my point a little. Well ok Let open our minds just a bit and look at this from another perspective shall we? Think back to the story of Noah and his ark of animals. It says that God saw mans evil ways and was sorry that he had created man. Were not going to talk about noah because that isnt part of the point I'm attempting to make here. OK so God says "I'm sorry I made people" What does he do? He kills them all. Lets look at sodom and gomorah he dint like them either and he killed them all. The point? If God don't like ya he kills ya. Me and you are still here! He must have some reason for keeping humans alive! Another thing, God does not love humans for what they do,or think. He loves humans for what they are. That is what makes the love unconditional! When you go to the pet store and pick out a dog why do you choose the dog? Because you like dogs! Why not the rat or the cat or the frog? Because you like dogs. The dogs love is also unconditional it loves you because you are the leader of the pack. Same way with God, he loves us because he likes people! Just like people like dogs. Also on another point I read earlier. If God did not want man to have free will, don't you think he would have simply built robots? or unthinking people? After all why give humans a brain and the free will to use it! Because that's what he wanted. That's why we have the freedom to do what we want. There's even freedom to NOT beileve there is a God at all! amazing how that works out. Okay, however, this entire thread has so far been the question of if God exists. So regardless of what story you want to tell that came from the bible there is nothing about my question that has anything to do with the bible, therefore I reject any comment that quotes a story from the bible, an excerpt, or whatever else from the bible. I'm simply trying to figure out why people that believe in God also believe that God is watching them, waiting for them, and will take care of them no matter what...I've heard enough bible study from the missionaries, I don't care to hear any on a question that I want a simple answer to, a simple answer that I have simply not recieved yet. Please, take no offense to this, but if I want to hear what the bible says I will read it again. God came from the bible! Without the bible we would know NOTHING of God! Unless you count hearsay from other people. So humans do not serve God - the book serves God and humans serve the book. OR is it that humans serve themselves through the self-serve menue that other humans have written in a book? |
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mirriam websters two cents Noun 1. scientific fact - an observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true (although its truth is never final) kind of makes religions scientific facts too,,,,but its all subjective I suppose,,, No, actually it's more about accepting that there are some things science and those who practice science do not attempt to know or to prove. Science and those who practice it, understand the limitations of that field of knowledge. It would be more logical to say that the souces of knowledge are based on subjective interpretation. Of course being logical is more difficult when a person's religious doctrine contains elements of exclusivity pertaining to the one and ony true source of knowledge. Kinda puts the damper on recognizing any other source for the attainment of knowledge, doesn't it? I guess that depends upon interpretation and context,,,imagine, 2000 years from now what will be said about our civilization and how all that CURRENTLY is happening will be condensed into several books all originating with the FIRST of its kind,,,, I see the bible as a condensed history from several sources, instead of just one source,,,, much like the United Kingdom is actually several countries which were united into one which leaves the information, like the country, formally one source, but in actuality a collection of sources And what conclusions have you drawn when attempting to compare the sources of scientific knowledge to the source of your religious knowledge? |
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