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| Topic: If you break Gods Commandment did you sin? | |
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Edited by
Thomas3474
on
Sat 11/20/10 11:08 PM
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Of course Jesus' teachings weren't the same as the old testament laws. They are TWO different forms of laws and Jesus fulfilled what we now call the OLD testament. So no he wasn't agreeing that they were unwise, just they were fulfilled, completed, finished. Some simple questions. Were the 10 commandments part of the old covenant? Simple answer yes or no. Did the old covenant make distinctions between the ten commandments and the rest of the law as prescribed by God? If yes, please explain the distinction - or you can simply answer no? EXACTLY when were ALL the laws of the old covenant fulfilled (in your words - "completed, finished"? The 10 commandments are no different today then they were in the old testament.Nothing has changed in that regard except Jesus adding the commandment that you shall love your lord God with all your heart. "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40). There was 621 Old testament laws.Some were from God and some were Jewish tradition.You could probably do the research your self to find out which laws were Gods laws and which ones were Jewish laws. Jesus fulled all the laws and either confirmed them or made them null and void.Many of the Old testament laws are still valid today as they were in the Old testament.Some of these laws include...the 10 commandments,morality and sexual issues,divorce,worship(including tithing),marriage issues,etc. All the laws that dealt with animals being unclean and what you can eat are null and void.Any laws that talk about punishment by death for sin are null and void.Any Jewish laws and traditions are null and void.Any laws that talk about dress codes and hair styles are null and void.There are many more. These laws and issues are often a complicated and even church leaders and followers many times don't understand what laws we should follow.If you really wanted to do the effort you would have to... 1.See which laws Jesus spoke of and set a example to follow. 2.See which laws(although no punishment will be given)are still offensive to God despite Jesus's death(such as homosexuality,adultery,lust,blashpemy,and other issues). 3.See what Old testament laws dealt with unclean issues such as animals and void them. 4.See what laws were Jewish tradition and not from God. 5.See what laws were from God and determine if Jesus's death warranted them being void. 6.To determine if following such Old testament laws should be followed anyways for the sake of Christianity(such as tithing in church,not working on the Sabbath,not eating shelfish,etc.) |
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Perhaps God is working through me, or perhaps through you as I've often admired your own skills in this area. 
Perhaps god will take you up, with him, or through him, and perhaps he will take me too, up yours. (Sorry. I'm in a giddy mood.) |
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You forget God works through people. That may be why I have such a drive to come in here and defend our father...
There it is again, the intervening God. God works through poeple - but which people? Some may think that Gods' work comes through people who tell others what is necessary to please God and find salvation? And which set of ideas pertaining to those objectives would any other believer or a non-believer have to embrace? Of course if God works through 'people' than God works through all people. So how can you know that God is not working through Abra? How can you know that God is not working through Richard Dawkins, or even Hitler? Could it possibly be that God does not work through people so much as God intends his message to be ONLY for each individual? If the message you receive is contrary to that of another Christian individual does that make one you wrong? And how can anyone know if thier message is right or wrong for anyone, including self? Is it not possible for an individual to read the Bible and develop a stronger faith in God without coming to the same moral conclusions that another might accept as fundamental for belief and salvation? Could it be that the biblical message pertaining to judging others, is a warning implying that comparing individual beliefs can lead to MIS-judging the beliefs and behaviors of others based on a message that was meant for the individual alone? After all, if God works through people and people have no idea what God's intensions are, then wouldn't it be wrong to try to change what a person believes since that belief is guided by the will of God? There it is again, the intervening God. God works through poeple - but which people? Some may think that Gods' work comes through people who tell others what is necessary to please God and find salvation? And which set of ideas pertaining to those objectives would any other believer or a non-believer have to embrace? No, nothing with intervening. Intervening would be God literally taking over someone's body and forcing them to do something or not do something. Yes God helps us through our lives, you can call that intervening if you wish. But God in no way do my first example, he doesn't take anyone's free will away, he doesn't "force" anyone to do anything. We ALWAYS have a choice. And with your comment on doing God's will. If you have on your heart to do something in particular, if it coincides with what is said in the bible then you can trust it is from our father. If it doesn't agree with his teachings and or laws then you can guarantee it is Satan tempting you to do something you ought not do. And what of my other questions? You say ...if it coincides with what is said int he bible...
Either you are guided by the holy spirit or you are guided by the letter of the law - which is it? If an individual feels the holy spirit is guiding him to act in a particualar way, what need does that individual have of the bible? Is not the holy spirit God, and does not God work through all people and might God want an individual to take some action without consulting the bible - which that individual might interpret incorrectly, and decide NOT to follow his own feeling that was guided through the spirit of God????? I don't understand your question. Example ======= Someone is giving you hell all the time. Always finding something to pick at you about. Eventually a lot of people would end kicking the crap out of the person. But you know that little feeling inside of you where you feel it's wrong, but you're doing it any ways, that would be your conscience. In this scenario your conscience would tell you to just go on if your conscience is with the lord. And this can be personally verified for the word of God tells you to turn the other cheek... eg., walk away. Since both work together, your conscience and the word, then you can guarantee that it is what God wanted and that it was God speaking to your conscience and not Satan tempting you to do some sinful action. |
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Of course Jesus' teachings weren't the same as the old testament laws. They are TWO different forms of laws and Jesus fulfilled what we now call the OLD testament. So no he wasn't agreeing that they were unwise, just they were fulfilled, completed, finished. Some simple questions. Were the 10 commandments part of the old covenant? Simple answer yes or no. Did the old covenant make distinctions between the ten commandments and the rest of the law as prescribed by God? If yes, please explain the distinction - or you can simply answer no? EXACTLY when were ALL the laws of the old covenant fulfilled (in your words - "completed, finished"? The old law was fulfilled with the coming of Jesus. Yes the "10 commandments" given to Moses was in the old testament. But if you follow the teachings of Jesus you will find every 10 commandment. Not united in a simple tablet as the 10 commandments were, but still nevertheless the teachings are there. Old testament contains the old covenant. Re-read my questions and your answer and consider, carefully, your answer to the following question: If the old covenant was fulfilled by Jesus coming then what was the purpose of his sacrifice? |
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Of course Jesus' teachings weren't the same as the old testament laws. They are TWO different forms of laws and Jesus fulfilled what we now call the OLD testament. So no he wasn't agreeing that they were unwise, just they were fulfilled, completed, finished. Some simple questions. Were the 10 commandments part of the old covenant? Simple answer yes or no. Did the old covenant make distinctions between the ten commandments and the rest of the law as prescribed by God? If yes, please explain the distinction - or you can simply answer no? EXACTLY when were ALL the laws of the old covenant fulfilled (in your words - "completed, finished"? The old law was fulfilled with the coming of Jesus. Yes the "10 commandments" given to Moses was in the old testament. But if you follow the teachings of Jesus you will find every 10 commandment. Not united in a simple tablet as the 10 commandments were, but still nevertheless the teachings are there. Old testament contains the old covenant. Re-read my questions and your answer and consider, carefully, your answer to the following question: If the old covenant was fulfilled by Jesus coming then what was the purpose of his sacrifice? The purpose of his sacrifice? It was so that you could be forgiven of your sins. And is the reason we no longer have to sacrifice something to be forgiven, we need to accept Jesus' sacrifice as our own, for Jesus was the ULTIMATE sacrifice. |
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I am not against the tenets of the Christian faith. There are no tenets. The whole thing is an impossibility. It is constructed so that people ought not to believe it, cuz it's beyond unbeleivable. Yet people believe in it. It says more about people than about the bible, while the bible says a lot about the bible badly enough.
But wux,(in all seriousness) what if that IS the purpose of the bible? What if those who put the bible together WERE acting at the will of God - for the sole purpose of SHOWING people that it is not the letter of the law that matters, but only belief in God as creator who expects people to be civil to each other and good caretakers of the environment on which they depend for life? REally - what if??? |
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I love the christian religion. It is full of inconsistencies and self-contradictions. I am not talking about things even like the world is six thousand years old, plus or minus. I am talking about self-contradictions, which occurs that on a page in the bible the Lord says X is true and on the facing page He says X is not true. I am not against the tenets of the Christian faith. There are no tenets. The whole thing is an impossibility. It is constructed so that people ought not to believe it, cuz it's beyond unbeleivable. Yet people believe in it. It says more about people than about the bible, while the bible says a lot about the bible badly enough. And they fight! Christians defend their points! And they can't! Any five year old can see how irrevokably impossible it is to understand and accept the Bible as truth. I have known people who were beaten severely at ages eight to twelve, because they asked the wrong questions in bible classes. They were sent to bed with no dinner coz they aced or voiced their knowledge as was consistent with the bible. The kid was punished for taking those instructions which the bible gave, but adults did not want her to take seriously. Or take seriously, but not believe, and certainly not act on them, but if she said "I don't believe this, you're right, daddy," then she would have been again corporally punished, for she disbelieved the Holy Words. Kids are not as good at self-deception as adults. Yes, they also can believe that it's the trees that create the wind, and that santa claus and the easter bunny exist, and that there is a pot at the end of the rainbow. But they were punished, from their point of view completely incomprehensibly, if they said yes, I believe there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and they were punished if they said no, I don't believe there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Kids are pure, not stupid; they believe, but their logic can make very good inferences what follows from what logically. We laugh at kids, when they say something cutely funny, because we see the iron-hard logic that their young minds, not having exposed to other complexities, deduces from the workings of the world. Except with the Christian religion, there is no incorporating of more and more complexity into a child's reality, with the Christian dogma there is only confusion that ensues from more in-depth study. The authoritanian nature of Christian churches has its basis at people getting at each other's throats, potentially, whether to use or to spear the rod; and therefore they elected a leader that made decrees over paradoxial, meaningless credos in the faith. Authority is good, cause the Bible is chaotic in its system of logic. A five year old child can see it, but not a Christian, for a christian has been beaten into obedience. A child is pre-beatnik; a Christian is post-beatnik. I think if you ask any Christian no matter where you are anywhere in the world they will all tell you the exact same thing. God created everything Jesus died for our sins Follow the 10 commandments read the bible try to be a good Christian Maybe you should wait outside a church and take polls on what Christians believe and see how confused they are. Kids have no problem understanding the bible either.They can tell you who God is who Jesus is how he died and what he died for. Christianity has changed little if anything over the 2,000 years it has been in existence including those who believe in it.The beliefs have always been the same and will be until the end of time. Atheist and those who wish to change or destroy Christianity have had no effect regardless of what they say or do.You will never read any history of anyone who made a claim which caused Christianity to take a nose dive or to be changed in any way.Christianity is like a piece of hardened steel 30 miles thick and you have some atheist trying to drill a hole in it with a hand drill and dull drill bits. Rave and rant all you want.It has no effect on Christians,and no effect on changing the bible. |
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his sacrifice also fulfilled the covenant
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4.See what laws were Jewish tradition and not from God. This is a bit of a sticky issue. According to an observant Jew, all laws in the old testament are from god. To you those that are not from god, got canned. But I contest your predetermination which were purely Jewish laws and which were god-given laws. All laws in the bible are in the Bible!!! The works don't specify, "this is the law, but it's not god-given, but we put it in the Talmud anyway, to confuse you." In fact, the only determinant you or anyone can use to separate laws in the old testament into strictly Jewish laws and into strictly God-given laws is the determination of Jesus. Before Jesus, nobody said of any law in the Talmud, "this is Jewish law, that is God-given law." I am just saying you are full of imagination. There existed no separate sets of Jewish and God-given laws. Jesus made them into that. |
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Perhaps God is working through me, or perhaps through you as I've often admired your own skills in this area.
Perhaps god will take you up, with him, or through him, and perhaps he will take me too, up yours. (Sorry. I'm in a giddy mood.)  giddy is good and it's ok to be gay - so shall we proceed gayly forward - or upward, as long as it's not necessarily straight?
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SHOWING people that it is not the letter of the law that matters, but only belief in God as creator who expects people to be civil to each other and good caretakers of the environment on which they depend for life? REally - what if??? Well. This would mean that others would be allowed to make inferences, much like you, what the Bible is all about. If it is really up to grabs, what it means, anything goes. It may want to say that people not be civil to each other and take bad care of the planet. Since the text does not make sense, the only thing you can VALIDLY infer, is that the contents can't be taken as gospel. Beyond that everything else is inference. Sure, you can make that supposition, as long as you alloow others, on a purely inferential basis on the bible, to believe whatever they want to believe, including that god is spreading his teaching through people, through the literal understanding of the bible, or not, or that homosexuality is a sin, or that coveting your neighbours *** is a sin. In other words, if you seriously believe that anything tangible or sensible can be inferred from the bible, whether you name that thing that you think is the true inference or you don't name it, you allow that a completely incomprehensible text can tell you something, furthermore, that it can teach you moral lessons. This is what you allow, and you can't defend the lesson you learn from it with any more conviction, than another person whose inference involves burnign witches and eating baby's brains. Really. Let sleeping dogs lie, don't try to make sense of something senseless, and claim it can be done without doing damage. |
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I am not against the tenets of the Christian faith. There are no tenets. The whole thing is an impossibility. It is constructed so that people ought not to believe it, cuz it's beyond unbeleivable. Yet people believe in it. It says more about people than about the bible, while the bible says a lot about the bible badly enough.
But wux,(in all seriousness) what if that IS the purpose of the bible? What if those who put the bible together WERE acting at the will of God - for the sole purpose of SHOWING people that it is not the letter of the law that matters, but only belief in God as creator who expects people to be civil to each other and good caretakers of the environment on which they depend for life? REally - what if??? You should also understand that laws and punishment were severe back in the Old testament times.Simple blasphemy could get you killed(as what Jesus was charged with).So there is really no reason to bring this Jesus person into the picture to make all the laws invalid.It would be understandable if it was some other religion that wanted to make up Jesus for the sake of all these laws becoming invalid but Jesus was prophecy in the Old testament and Jesus was a Jew so it is impossible to say that anyone but the Jews were responsible for the New testament. What reason would the Jews have to basically throw away their whole system of worship,laws,and traditions?There is nothing to gain and much to loose.If anything they would have rejected Jesus(which they did)and would have stopped the New testament from being written(which many did mainly through the murders of the disciples which is why the New testament had to be written some 30 years later) So with that understood you have to accept the fact that everything is true in the Old testament since clearly Jesus was written about,Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies,and people did not want the New testament written. No matter what way you slice it.You have people on all side either claiming these things to be true since people on all sides had a role in either preventing Christianity or spreading it.Either way they all come to the conclusion that Jesus was here and either rejected him or accepted him.There is no middle ground. |
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You forget God works through people. That may be why I have such a drive to come in here and defend our father...
There it is again, the intervening God. God works through poeple - but which people? Some may think that Gods' work comes through people who tell others what is necessary to please God and find salvation? And which set of ideas pertaining to those objectives would any other believer or a non-believer have to embrace? Of course if God works through 'people' than God works through all people. So how can you know that God is not working through Abra? How can you know that God is not working through Richard Dawkins, or even Hitler? Could it possibly be that God does not work through people so much as God intends his message to be ONLY for each individual? If the message you receive is contrary to that of another Christian individual does that make one you wrong? And how can anyone know if thier message is right or wrong for anyone, including self? Is it not possible for an individual to read the Bible and develop a stronger faith in God without coming to the same moral conclusions that another might accept as fundamental for belief and salvation? Could it be that the biblical message pertaining to judging others, is a warning implying that comparing individual beliefs can lead to MIS-judging the beliefs and behaviors of others based on a message that was meant for the individual alone? After all, if God works through people and people have no idea what God's intensions are, then wouldn't it be wrong to try to change what a person believes since that belief is guided by the will of God? There it is again, the intervening God. God works through poeple - but which people? Some may think that Gods' work comes through people who tell others what is necessary to please God and find salvation? And which set of ideas pertaining to those objectives would any other believer or a non-believer have to embrace? No, nothing with intervening. Intervening would be God literally taking over someone's body and forcing them to do something or not do something. Yes God helps us through our lives, you can call that intervening if you wish. But God in no way do my first example, he doesn't take anyone's free will away, he doesn't "force" anyone to do anything. We ALWAYS have a choice. And with your comment on doing God's will. If you have on your heart to do something in particular, if it coincides with what is said in the bible then you can trust it is from our father. If it doesn't agree with his teachings and or laws then you can guarantee it is Satan tempting you to do something you ought not do. And what of my other questions? You say ...if it coincides with what is said int he bible...
Either you are guided by the holy spirit or you are guided by the letter of the law - which is it? If an individual feels the holy spirit is guiding him to act in a particualar way, what need does that individual have of the bible? Is not the holy spirit God, and does not God work through all people and might God want an individual to take some action without consulting the bible - which that individual might interpret incorrectly, and decide NOT to follow his own feeling that was guided through the spirit of God????? I don't understand your question. Example ======= Someone is giving you hell all the time. Always finding something to pick at you about. Eventually a lot of people would end kicking the crap out of the person. But you know that little feeling inside of you where you feel it's wrong, but you're doing it any ways, that would be your conscience. In this scenario your conscience would tell you to just go on if your conscience is with the lord. And this can be personally verified for the word of God tells you to turn the other cheek... eg., walk away. Since both work together, your conscience and the word, then you can guarantee that it is what God wanted and that it was God speaking to your conscience and not Satan tempting you to do some sinful action. A better example: An individual is torn because the people most important to that individual are committed Christians who believe that being gay is a choice that is influenced by the devil and the gay person is a deviant and sinful person who is condemed unless they change. But the individual has been unable to change and has spend years praying and doing good works and praying some more - and suddenly one day the person has a dream and that dream persists and in the dream the person is told he is a loved child of God and that the love given to him is love worthy of extending. The person pushes the dream away but it persists and then signs appear that make him realize it is the voice of God and he feels called to the ministry and to a 'life-partner' and together they build a new church in a run down community. The church not only meets spiritual needs but creates a number of outreach programs that help many in the community. In this case the person ignored the letter of the law becasue to accept it (by someone elses interpretation) would have prevented him from accomplishing his mission. So in this case, was the letter of the law more important or the guidance of the spirit from within? |
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God created everything Jesus died for our sins Follow the 10 commandments read the bible try to be a good Christian Aak any non-christian and he will say this is rubbish. Granted the 10 commandments are accepted by Jews and Muslims, but not by Hindus and Buddhists. Christianity has changed little if anything over the 2,000 years yes, the changes were little, but they earned enough irritation to get Christians go at each others' throats, like the Lutherans against the Catholics, the Calvinists against the Catholics, the Church of Englanders against the New England Patriots. But seriously: My favourite change of note in the Christian faith is that it's now okay to do homosexual rape as long as you wear a condom, as per the new decree ex cathedra. |
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So there is really no reason to bring this Jesus person into the picture Are you feeling okay? Divorce Jesus from Christianity? And you cite this proposition on the defence of the validity of the Bible? My goodness. My work here has been done. It's huge. Monumental. Thanks. I feel really good now. |
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4.See what laws were Jewish tradition and not from God. This is a bit of a sticky issue. According to an observant Jew, all laws in the old testament are from god. To you those that are not from god, got canned. But I contest your predetermination which were purely Jewish laws and which were god-given laws. All laws in the bible are in the Bible!!! The works don't specify, "this is the law, but it's not god-given, but we put it in the Talmud anyway, to confuse you." In fact, the only determinant you or anyone can use to separate laws in the old testament into strictly Jewish laws and into strictly God-given laws is the determination of Jesus. Before Jesus, nobody said of any law in the Talmud, "this is Jewish law, that is God-given law." I am just saying you are full of imagination. There existed no separate sets of Jewish and God-given laws. Jesus made them into that. The Jewish laws nearly always dealt with punishment for sin including death.In the Old testament times your average Jew probably had to live life like a nun in a convent to avoid breaking any laws.It was probably a very hard life to live back then. God does not like anyone dying for sin.Far from it.However there has to be some form of law and order to keep Jews from living like Atheist.If you read the bible you will find God did not make adam and even and give them the 10 commandments and all these laws.It happened much much later.All those laws and commandments were commanded by God because the entire world was doing nothing but killing,stealing,having sex,and other ungodly things. God is very patient and still people continued to sin,live ungodly lives,and disobey God.He grew tired of seeing people dying for their sins and decided to offer his son as a sacrifice so people would no longer die for sins.They could be forgiven and their life sparred no matter what the sin was. Jesus died for our sins.Someone saying the death of God's only son isn't good enough and this person should die anyways because of Old testament laws is so half assed backwards and wrong it hard to stomach it. |
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The purpose of his sacrifice? It was so that you could be forgiven of your sins. And is the reason we no longer have to sacrifice something to be forgiven, we need to accept Jesus' sacrifice as our own, for Jesus was the ULTIMATE sacrifice.
Is the prophacy of the messiah, from the old testament, part of the old covenant which was to be fulfilled? Where in the old testament does God speak of a New Covenant? Or the old one being fulfilled and replaced by a New Covenant? |
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You forget God works through people. That may be why I have such a drive to come in here and defend our father...
There it is again, the intervening God. God works through poeple - but which people? Some may think that Gods' work comes through people who tell others what is necessary to please God and find salvation? And which set of ideas pertaining to those objectives would any other believer or a non-believer have to embrace? Of course if God works through 'people' than God works through all people. So how can you know that God is not working through Abra? How can you know that God is not working through Richard Dawkins, or even Hitler? Could it possibly be that God does not work through people so much as God intends his message to be ONLY for each individual? If the message you receive is contrary to that of another Christian individual does that make one you wrong? And how can anyone know if thier message is right or wrong for anyone, including self? Is it not possible for an individual to read the Bible and develop a stronger faith in God without coming to the same moral conclusions that another might accept as fundamental for belief and salvation? Could it be that the biblical message pertaining to judging others, is a warning implying that comparing individual beliefs can lead to MIS-judging the beliefs and behaviors of others based on a message that was meant for the individual alone? After all, if God works through people and people have no idea what God's intensions are, then wouldn't it be wrong to try to change what a person believes since that belief is guided by the will of God? There it is again, the intervening God. God works through poeple - but which people? Some may think that Gods' work comes through people who tell others what is necessary to please God and find salvation? And which set of ideas pertaining to those objectives would any other believer or a non-believer have to embrace? No, nothing with intervening. Intervening would be God literally taking over someone's body and forcing them to do something or not do something. Yes God helps us through our lives, you can call that intervening if you wish. But God in no way do my first example, he doesn't take anyone's free will away, he doesn't "force" anyone to do anything. We ALWAYS have a choice. And with your comment on doing God's will. If you have on your heart to do something in particular, if it coincides with what is said in the bible then you can trust it is from our father. If it doesn't agree with his teachings and or laws then you can guarantee it is Satan tempting you to do something you ought not do. And what of my other questions? You say ...if it coincides with what is said int he bible...
Either you are guided by the holy spirit or you are guided by the letter of the law - which is it? If an individual feels the holy spirit is guiding him to act in a particualar way, what need does that individual have of the bible? Is not the holy spirit God, and does not God work through all people and might God want an individual to take some action without consulting the bible - which that individual might interpret incorrectly, and decide NOT to follow his own feeling that was guided through the spirit of God????? I don't understand your question. Example ======= Someone is giving you hell all the time. Always finding something to pick at you about. Eventually a lot of people would end kicking the crap out of the person. But you know that little feeling inside of you where you feel it's wrong, but you're doing it any ways, that would be your conscience. In this scenario your conscience would tell you to just go on if your conscience is with the lord. And this can be personally verified for the word of God tells you to turn the other cheek... eg., walk away. Since both work together, your conscience and the word, then you can guarantee that it is what God wanted and that it was God speaking to your conscience and not Satan tempting you to do some sinful action. A better example: An individual is torn because the people most important to that individual are committed Christians who believe that being gay is a choice that is influenced by the devil and the gay person is a deviant and sinful person who is condemed unless they change. But the individual has been unable to change and has spend years praying and doing good works and praying some more - and suddenly one day the person has a dream and that dream persists and in the dream the person is told he is a loved child of God and that the love given to him is love worthy of extending. The person pushes the dream away but it persists and then signs appear that make him realize it is the voice of God and he feels called to the ministry and to a 'life-partner' and together they build a new church in a run down community. The church not only meets spiritual needs but creates a number of outreach programs that help many in the community. In this case the person ignored the letter of the law becasue to accept it (by someone elses interpretation) would have prevented him from accomplishing his mission. So in this case, was the letter of the law more important or the guidance of the spirit from within? Yes very good example. And neither was more important. Our obedience is to the law, therefore he listened to his conscience to obey the law. Both equally important for if he wouldn't have listened to his conscience he would not have turned away from his sinful lifestyle, if it wasn't for the law he may not have known exactly what was wrong and or why he was feeling it was wrong in the first place. |
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4.See what laws were Jewish tradition and not from God. This is a bit of a sticky issue. According to an observant Jew, all laws in the old testament are from god. To you those that are not from god, got canned. But I contest your predetermination which were purely Jewish laws and which were god-given laws. All laws in the bible are in the Bible!!! The works don't specify, "this is the law, but it's not god-given, but we put it in the Talmud anyway, to confuse you." In fact, the only determinant you or anyone can use to separate laws in the old testament into strictly Jewish laws and into strictly God-given laws is the determination of Jesus. Before Jesus, nobody said of any law in the Talmud, "this is Jewish law, that is God-given law." I am just saying you are full of imagination. There existed no separate sets of Jewish and God-given laws. Jesus made them into that. VERY GOOD! In fact, it was precisely the laws of sacrifice that were the greater law, for they were the spiritual law - while the 10 commandments were a moral code for a civil society. But TOGETHER they were ALL the God's law and part of God's covenant with man. They were ONE LAW - ONE COVENANT. |
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