Apparently you just not capable of understanding. No one is suggesting that you are "judging souls". That's the furthermost thing from anyone's mind. You're no in any position to be doing that, and no one is.

That's not the point at all. Not even close.

You are making the judgment that people who are not worshiping the Bible as the "Word of God" are in fact, not worshiping God.

Period.

That, my friend, is the judgment that you continually preach non-stop. It's religious bigotry and it necessarily forces you to believe that you are BETTER THAN those who refuse to acknowledge the Bible as the "Word of God".

This is necessarily so because it's what you preach constantly. To obey God is BETTER THAN to refuse to acknowledge God's authority. And you demand that the Bible is the "Word of God's AUTHORITY".

This religion has corrupted your ability to see other people as they are. Instead, you can only see them as either obeying God (BETTER THAN), or refusing to acknowledge "God's Word" (NOT GOOD).

The mere fact that you can't see this religious bigotry does not surprise me in the least.

This is precisely what makes this religion so dangerous.

Steven Wienberg once very wisely said, "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

You may be a good person Cowboy, but your religion is causing you to do bad things. You are judging the relationship that other people have with God based on whether or not they worship the ancient folklore that you have chosen to worship as the "Word of God".

This is why there is so much discussion about this. Christians keep trying to push their bigoted folklore onto everyone else as "The Word of God". And so people fight back by pointing out how utterly absurd, ignorant, and hateful that folklore actually is!

No, no one is saying anyone is better then anyone. I'm just as sinful as you or anyone else. I'm no greater, nor are you then me.




No, again no one is seeing anyone as better then anyone. We ALL fall short in the glory of God, we ALL sin, we ALL fail through out the day. Just because you may call me a Christian, doesn't make me any better then anyone, nor anyone else that is given the title Christian.

I'm just curious why you take it so personal and why you feel Christians are badgering you in a sense. Again, we are ALL sinners, we ALL fall short in the glory of God. Just because someone has been given the title "Christian" doesn't make them a better of a person then you or anyone else that isn't given that title.

Well, I disagree with this basic notion in the first place.

If "sin" is willful disobedience of "God" in this religion, then you can't fall short of the glory of God by accident. In other words, you can't willfully disobey by accident. You can only do it on purpose. Otherwise it wouldn't have been your "choice" to disobey and that would violate the ideology that you're responsible for your choices.

So this whole notion of 'stumbling and falling' to the seductive charms of Satan after you've accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior is nonsense, IMHO. If you truly believe that Jesus was God there is absolutely no excuse for you to continue to willfully disobey him.

I would argue that the bible does not even support your ideology here. Sure it says in places that "all of fallen short" of the glory of God. But that could have been BEFORE they accepted Jesus as their LORD. Once you've done that, there's no longer any excuse for "falling short" of the glory of God ever again.

How could you possibly fall short of the glory of God if Jesus is living in your heart?



You call yourself a "Christian". That's your choice, not mine.



Because they are.

They are constantly proselytizing the bigotry and ignorance of the Bible to be the "Word of God".



And here you are, doing that same crap again!

No, we are not all sinners Cowboy. That's a myth from the folklore that YOU worship.



No one "gives" anyone that title. You make that choice yourself.

Oooof, not sure why anyone wastes their time on the "weatherman"..I mean people who post that they do not drink drugs (that their bible forbids) then say they do drink drugs (forbidden by their bible) on their profile IS breaking a "Commandment"...and is going to H E double hockeysticks. I feel sorry for that lost soul...

LOL!

Like the idiot who posts links to support his claims and then denies doing it?
In fact even blaming me for posting it when he call his own "evidence" a Bible Thumper???

I recall making a mistake, what's your excuse? Hitler was a real Christian and you guys can rewrite history all ya's want but that fact will never ever change...OWN IT already. Remember it the next time a BUSH type is running for public office. Vote for the rational person next time...

Hummm, I need too make one that reads "Support historical fact not superstitious denials of it"

Wow, good job M-E.
I'm used to most people getting irate and denying being wrong, props to you.


However, before you start criticizing people for incorrect word usage like "weather" instead of "whether", you may want to get the simple words straight. You know, the difference between "to", "too" and "two"...

So, you may also want to make "mistake" a plural next time.

People that know me would tell you I am honest and own my mistakes...but anyway I do know "to" from "too"...I just have a few sticky keys (proobably from masturbating to poorn) and didn't nootice my mistake, then the phoone rang...ooops.

Someone who doesn't know the difference between "whether" and "weather" has a loose screw...probably from reading ancient writs too long to have learned proper English.

By the way, I would like to clarify on this a bit more.

This isn't about Abracadabra being offended by Cowboy.

This is about a RELIGION. Not so much the followers of the religion. Although, let's face it, the followers of the religion is what keeps it alive and offensive.

A Steven Weinberg puts it:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." - Steven Wienberg

It's the religion that I find insulting. Not you.

You didn't event it. You didn't write the Bible. You've merely taken on the task of proselytizing it and defending it as the "Word of God".

So you've chosen your role with respect to this religion.

Personally I would not care in the least if you want to choose this religion as your own psychic communique with God. That's fine with me and I would fully respect that.

I have no problem that you believe that Jesus is the only way to God and that everyone is a sinner. That's fine too.

Just recognize that this is indeed what YOU BELIEVE.

As soon as you start proselytizing it to me that I should believe this is the word of "Our Father" then I am offended.

Speak for yourself! Don't be telling me who "My Father" is.

Does this anger me? Why YES, it most certainly does. It's an insult to me and to my vision of God. It quite literally makes me sick to my stomach to hear you refer to the Hebrew bigotry as the "laws" of "Our Father".

Speak for yourself. But don't speak on my behalf by referring to your sick demented religion as having anything at all to do with me or "My Creator".

I will respect your beliefs, if and only if, you respect mine.

But that means that proselytizing the Bible as the "Only True Word of God" must cease. Even if that's what you "believe". You can say that you believe it for yourself. But don't be PUSHING it onto me by referring to it as the word of "Our Father", because that's encroachment and sends you right back to the 1 yard line of your defense side of the field.

Don't be telling me who "My Father" is.

That's arrogance beyond arrogance.

Believe what you will, but don't insult me with your beliefs. Because as soon as you do, I WILL point out precisely why I feel that Bible is a hateful, ignorant dogma that can't possibly be the word of any all-wise God.

And that brings precisely to where we are, does it not?

I'll respect your personal views of Jesus and the Bible, if and only when, you respect my personal views of God, whatever they might entail. Including my believe that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva.

You don't need to agree with me, but you need to RESPECT my belief, if you want me to respect yours.

It's really that simple.

You talk as if we become invincible and invisible to Satan after we've accept Jesus into our hearts. We still have the same flaws as before we accept him. Yes once we have accept Jesus we gain a guide, guardian, and a friend. But still nevertheless our mentality level does not change. We still will do stupid things every once in a while. Yes I agree not as often or as severe as before. But still will occasionally. Not making excuses or anything of such, just merely stating the fact of the truth. But yes I agree there is no excuse to disobey him.
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I do not call myself a Christian. I call myself someone that tries his best for our father and his son. It's you and other people that lack the faith that have given me and people of similar beliefs that title.



Now your logic doesn't make sense. Yes you do sin and I can prove it. You say you do not sin for you do not believe in our father and that those are his laws set out before us.

Well with similar logic,
if you do not believe fire will burn you or see how it possibly can I bet it still will.

If you do not believe being stabbed hurts and see no way it could, I bet it still will.

If you do not believe it's against the law to steal something I bet you'll get in trouble if you do when you are caught.

Sinning is going against the will of our father. Bottom line. Now weather you believe in our father or not is irrelevant, that's besides the point. The definition of sinning is going against his will. So with that you do sin, weather you wish to man up to the sin or not is your choice but nevertheless the sin was committed.

Not going to break your post down and respond individually like i usually do. It's quite simple to reply to this entire post with one response.

Ok you know who your mom and dad are in this world, you can not change the fact that they ARE your mom and dad, weather you wish to accept that as such or not. *not saying you have problems with your mom and dad, is merely an example*

Same with God our father. I say our father for weather you wish to accept him or not he is still nevertheless your father as well. You can worship whom ever you wish or not worship anyone at all, that is your choice. But still nevertheless you do still have but one father just as you still have but one real mom and dad on this earth.

No Cowboy. That doesn't play.

First off, there is no reason for me to put gender onto spirit by referring to "Our Creator" as "Our Father".

That's your male-chauvinistic biblical bigotry already. It reeks of Zeus. You're already putting a personified egotistical image onto "God" when you do that.

I'm a Pantheist (Panentheist to be more precise). I don't view God as a jealous egotistical male Zeus-like Godhead.

Your very term "Our Father" is already a devious underhanded attempt by you to try to slip your view of a male-chauvinistic bigoted godhead into the door-jam of my beliefs. I will have none of it.

You may refer to your belief in a male-chauvinistic bigoted godhead as "Your Father", and leave me out of it.

Moreover, you also equate the Biblical ignorance as the "Laws" of "Your Father". I don't accept that the Bible has anything at all to do with God.

So as far as I'm concerned Cowboy, you're already acting like a purposeful brain-washer using extremely cheap and dirty tricks to try to shove your male-chauvinistic bigoted Godhead onto me.

So no, every time you refer to your male-chauvinistic bigoted godhead as "Our Father" it makes me puke.

Speak of YOUR BELIEFS, not mine!

I'll speak for myself, thank you.

Christianity is not male-chauvinistic. Let me break it down for you.

Your body - Would NOT function without a head, would not function as sufficient with two heads for one would want to do this and the other would want to do that.
- Your left arm is just as important as the right
- Your left leg is just as important as the right
- Your head would not fuction without the heart

Left arm - Man
Right arm - Woman
Left leg - Man
Right leg - Woman
Head - Man
Heart - Woman

No one is more important then the other. Both are just as needed as one another. Each person has his/her job but nevertheless BOTH are equally needed to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.

If you wish to get a carriage somewhere you need ONE driver, ONE head to move the OTHER parts in harmony with one another to get where you're going or accomplish what you wish to get done.

So just because in the family the man is the "head" of the family, that DOES NOT mean that he is more important, greater, or anything of such in the family. EVERYONE is equally needed in everything, male or female. So please if you wish to spread your lies go else where for I will be here always to show people your lies.

Why would there not be? Even after we pass away on earth we will have genders. Different genders are not only important for reproduction. For instance, if you need emotional support for something, do you go to a biker bar full of males? To the sports area in the mall full of males in search for someone? No, you go to a female. We are programmed differently, male and female. Different things "not in reference to any sexual action" are better with females, other things are better with males. ect. Again gender holds more power then just in reproduction.

I speak no lies.

The Bible is a public book. Anyone can look it up.

Eve was created as an afterthought by God from a rib of Adam to be Adam's "helpmate".

Man and woman were not created together in the image of "God".

Woman is credited with convincing Adam to eat the forbidden fruit. Therefore woman is ultimately responsible for the fall from grace of mankind, or at least inciting it.

The Bible says that a female slave is only worth half as many sheckles as a male slave.

The Bible says that a woman must atone her sin of giving birth to female child for twice as long as when giving birth to a male child.

The Bible says that women are not to speak out in public on important matters, especially not on religious matters.

The bible is riddled with male-chauvinism and most people are fully aware of it. You can call it "lies" until you are blue in the face. In the meantime I call it my perspective, thus it cannot be said to be a "lie", it's merely a difference of opinion.

Why do you spew such hatred as to suggest that people are spreading 'lies' when they simply disagree with your views?

Just accept that everyone does not believe like you.

If you were not so relentless in your proselytizing of your religion you wouldn't find yourself in this position in the first place.

Quit trying to SHOVE your views down the throats of others, and you won't need to hear their views.

You reap what you sow. Karma law #1.

I recognize Yin and Yang.

So what?

Why should our creator be limited to just Yang?

Are you suggesting that our creator would not give us as much emotional support as a mortal woman?

For me, God is both Yin and Yang. This is why I worship both a God and Goddess as the Yin and Yang facets of the divine source.

By your own analysis here you are limiting God to only one gender, and thus your God cannot be infinite since HE is limited to only being of Male Gender.

My vision of God is infinite. My vision of God knows no bounds.

LOL!

That's a lie right there, you constantly lie about what people say and mean as well as about what is written in the Bible.

When doing something, steps are needed to be taken. See this is a prime example of people just trying to cause problems, for if God would have made eve first then adam from eve's rib it would then be a female-chauvinistic thing.

And yes we are both created in the image of God. If you take a picture of you, then make a copy of that image the copy is nevertheless in the image of you. Same concept with women.
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No Eve was made to be Adam's PARTNER. Not a "helpmate" Even in businesses partners are just as important as the other and no one is greater then one another, but are equally needed.
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Only if you wish to put the blame on women, Christians don't. Cause with that mentality alot of murderers should be set free for they didn't do it, their gun was whom killed the person. No, it was THAT person's actions that did it. Same as with Adam, it was HIS action to eat of the tree. He didn't have to, but chose to any ways. Both people are equally responsible for getting us kicked out of the garden. BOTH ate of the fruit.
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Try using a little common sense will you please. In that day and age most the work slaves were doing was physical labour. Yes there are strong women out there, but for the majority males are stronger then women. So therefore men would be more worthy in the physical labour area. No discrimination or anything, just a simple rule of nature.



The old testament does yes. But again there HAS to be ONE leader in matters in life. Again if the shoe would have been on the other foot people would then again say "The bible says that women are not to speak out in public on important matters, blah blah blah"
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I'm shoving no views down anyone's throats. It is you my friend that is shoving your views down other people's throats. We are in a "General Religion Chat Forum" therefore we come to discuss religious matters. It is you that come in and try to shove your views down our throats with professing there is no God. Again we don't shove our beliefs down anyone's throats, if you do not wish to believe in the father then so be it. Go on your marry little way and ignore us.

You can lie about me all you want. However, the Bible is a public book and people are more than welcome to look things up, read it, and draw their own conclusions.

Moreover, how can anyone be said to be "lying" about what's in the scriptures? It all ultimately comes down to personal interpretation.

The Jews never accepted that Jesus was "The Christ".

The Muslims took it in a whole different direction altogether.

You, yourself, claim that Roman Catholicism is nothing but pagan lies.

And then we have the myriad of Protesting Protestants who can never agree on anything.

So how could the term "lie" even be associated with these doctrines?

Every human being who reads them gets a different picture evidently.

You can't call it lies, the best you can do is concede that it's just yet another view in an ocean of views in a very confused and divisive mythology.

It was a flat out lie for the bible is not male-chauvinistic. Both male and female are equally important and have equal amount of power amongst each other. Yes males are the head of such and such but women are the head of this or that as well. It's not male-chauvinistic, you're only seeing the parts where the male is the leader of that which you speak of. You're not seeing and or referencing the parts where the woman are in charge. And again, BOTH are equally important and are equally in control in their own different ways.