Of course there is a warming trend...

The atmosphere is takin on water. (which I believe will increase the tempeture?)

The weather patterns are changing (if they are tending towards an ice age-geologists?) would they not change to deposit that water where ICE would form in an ICE AGE.

Once the atmosphere has 'prepped' those areas that it needs to accomplish an ice age.

We will go on a cooling trend.

(disclaimer... I am basing all this on a science book I read as a teenager - which of course I may not have studied as hard as I needed to)

It is a little different from that. The Earth is warming. A side effect of that fact is the difference in salinity in the ocean from the equator to the North Pole is lessened. This difference is what powers the Gulf Stream current in the Atlantic Ocean which is what carries billions of tons of warm water North to warm North America and Europe. The current appears to be stopping just like it has done in the past (see the charts) and without all that heat heading North, the area warmed before, now cools and freezes. Historically this event has only taken about ten years to happen and even if the current starts back up in a few years, the crop damage and weather effects would be huge. The rest of the world would keep getting hotter.

Some of us on here once had an arguement about the biblical flood...

Good actually came from that ridiculas argument.

When WATER is present in a nitrogen/o2 atmosphere with solar conditions such as flares (ours is like that)... the tempreture rises.

if you increase the water the tempreture increases...

At some point the system stablizes and as will any machine of its type (stellar/planatary) rebound... at which point you have temptures dropping which will cause the water to seek the gravity well...

and turn to ice in the cooling system near the surface.

Guess what?! To my amazement I found that I never said that you said that.

Yes, you said that we've already done more here in the last few decades than many people thought possible.

My reply to that was that we could and should be doing even more.
My reply is a form of discourse.

That's sad if China and India are worse then the Granite City Steel area. Yes, it is wrong for them to exempt themselves. I do believe that we still have a responsibility to do it for ourselves though.

Yes we do.

We deserve no less.

Something "BIG" happened 12,000 years ago. This is not a lot of time in terms of human existence, but it almost wiped out the human race.

Begin Quote:

UNIVERSAL DEATH IN 10,000 B.C.

Charles Darwin, the famous naturalist, was shocked by the extinction of species at the close of the Pleistocene. He writes: "The extinction of species has been involved in the most gratuitous mystery . . . no one can have marvelled more than I have at the extinction of species" (Darwin, 1859). He declared that for whole species to be destroyed in Southern Patagonia, in Brazil, in the mountain ranges of Peru, and in North America up to the Bering Straits, one must "shake the entire framework of the globe".
Smilodon (Sabre-toothed) Tiger

Watching them cut the huge block of muck-filled ice containing the mammoth remains on the recent "Discovery" TV special helped me realize: if a woolley mammoth standing out in the grasslands of central Asia were to suddenly die, for whatever reason, his body would simply rot and the scavangers would pick the bones clean. The only way for this to have happened would be for the mammoth to either fall in a lake or pond and drown or be swept into this mass of vegetation, insects and mud by a massive wave of water. Under which of these two scenarios would such an animal be quick-frozen? His hair and skin were still intact--even the food in its stomach!

The bones of extinct Pleistocene mammals can be found almost anywhere: they lie bleaching in the sands of Florida; in the gravels of New Jersey; the dry terraces of western Texas; as well as protrude from the sticky ooze of the tar pits near Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles. These animals did not simply grow old and die natural deaths. "The young lie with the old, foal with dam and calf with cow. Whole herds of animals were apparently killed together, overcome by some common power." (Hibben, 1946)

"The event was worldwide. The mammoths of Siberia became extinct about the same time as the giant rhinoceros of Europe; the mastodons of Alaska and the bison of Siberia ended simultaneously. The same is true of the Asian elephants and the American camels. The cause of these extinctions must be common to both hemispheres. If the coming of glacial conditions was gradual, it would not have caused the extinctions, because the various animals could have simply migrated to where conditions were better. What is seen here is total surprise, and uncontrolled violence." (Leonard, 1979)

Even the Pleistocene geologist William R. Farrand of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, who is opposed to catastrophism in any form, states: "Sudden death is indicated by the robust condition of the animals and their full stomachs . . . the animals were robust and healthy when they died" (Farrand, 1961). Neither in his article nor in his letters of rebuttal does Farrand ever face the reality of worldwide catastrophe represented by the millions of bones deposited all over this planet at the very end of the Pleistocene.

Some geologists may be softening their traditional stand against axial tilts and other rotational variations which could be the cause of world catastrophies. Dr. J. R. Heirtzler of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory observed that there has been "a revival of a 30-year-old theory that the glacial ages were caused by changes in the tilt of the earth's axis . . . there is clear evidence that large earthquakes occur at about the same time as certain changes in the earth's rotational motion." He goes on to say: "Whatever the mechanism of these changes, it is not hard to believe that similar changes in the earth's axial motion in times past could have caused major earthquake and mountain-building activity and could even have caused the magnetic field to flip" (Heirtzler, 1968). It has also been found that the end of the Pleistocene was attended by rampant volcanic activity (Hibben, 1946).

More recently Prof. Stephen Jay Gould, professor of geology at Harvard University, after studying the geological and paleontological record intensively, has championed the cause for open-minded consideration of catastrophism and uniformitarianism. He concludes that both concepts are represented equally in the geological record (Gould, 1977). Galactic radiation is even being looked at as a possible cause. (Here one can't help but be reminded of Plato's reference to "the stream from heaven" which arrives on earth "after the usual interval"; Timaeus, 23.)

Prof. Hibben appears to sum up the situation in a single statement: "The Pleistocene period ended in death. This was no ordinary extinction of a vague geological period which fizzled to an uncertain end. This death was catastrophic and all inclusive" (Hibben, 1946).

So it seems the last Ice Age, the Pleistocene Epoch, the Upper Paleolithic Age, and the "reign of the gods" in Egyptian history all ended at about the same time. It appears to me that the evidence, when taken into full consideration, points to a worldwide catastrophe (from whatever cause) which occurred at the close of the Pleistocene Epoch. Can it be merely coincidence that this is the very date (circa. 10,000 B.C.) indicated by Plato for the floods and seismic disturbances which led to the sinking of Atlantis and the destruction of its empire?
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BIBLIOGRAPHY

Berlitz, Charles, "The Mystery of Atlantis," New York, 1969.
Blake, Charles Carter, "Distribution of Mastodon in South America," Geologist, November 1861.
Braghine, Col. Alexander Pavlovitch, "The Shadow of Atlantis," Dutton Press, New York, 1940.
Farrand, William R., "Frozen Mammoths and Modern Geology," Science, Vol.133, No. 3455, March 17, 1961.
Heirtzler, J. R., "Sea-floor spreading," Scientific American, Vol. 219, No. 6, December 1968.
Gould, Stephen Jay, "Catastrophies and Steady State Earth," Natural History, Vol. LXXXIV, No. 2, February 1975.
Gould, Stephen Jay, "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, Vol. LXXXVII, No. 5, May 1977.
Hibben, Frank, "The Lost Americans," Thomas & Crowell Co., New York, 1946.
LaViolette, P. A. "Evidence of high cosmic dust concentrations in Late Pleistocene polar ice (20,000-14,000 Years BP)." Meteoritics 20, 1985.
Leonard, R. Cedric, Appendix A in "A Geological Study of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," Special Paper No. 1, Cowen Publ., Bethany, 1979.
Lippman, Harold E., "Frozen Mammoths," Physical Geology, New York, 1969.
Martin, P. S. & Guilday, J. E., "Bestiary for Pleistocene Biologists," Pleistocene Extinction, Yale University, 1967.
Nials, Fred L., "Geomorphic systems and stratigraphy in internally-drained watersheds of the northern Great Basin: Implications for archaeological studies," Sundance Archaeological Research Fund, Technical Paper, No. 5, University of Nevada, February 1999.
Okladnikov, A. P., "Yakutia before its Incorporation into the Russian State," McGill-Queens University Press, Montreal, 1970.
Patten, Donald W., "The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch: A Study in Scientific History," Pacific Meridian Publ., Seattle, 1966.
Pfizenmayer, E. W., "Siberian man and mammoth," Blackie & Sons, London, 1939.
Sanderson, Ivan T., "Riddle of the Frozen Giants," Saturday Evening Post, No. 39, 16 January 1960.
Simpson, George G., "Horses," Oxford University Press, New York, 1951.
Vereshchagin, N. K., "Primitive Hunters and Pleistocene Extinction in the Soviet Union," Pleistocene Extinction (P. S. Martin & H. E. Wright, Jr., editors), New Haven, 1967.
Vereshchagin, N. K., and G. F. Baryshnikov, "Paleoecology of the mammoth fauna in the Eurasian Arctic" in Paleoecology of Beringia, D. M. Hopkins, J. V. Matthews, C. E. Schweger, and S. B. Young (Eds.), Academic Press, New York, 1982.

I watched a special on the National Geographic channel on how the Grand Canyon was created.

During the Ice Age large sheets of 2000 feet high or higher where holding tons of water. Eventually the ice sheets started breaking and ocean amounts of water spilled over the valleys creating massive underwater tornadoes destroying and creating the forms of rocks we see today.

When you go to look at the Grand Canyon one can only fascinate themselves with the beauty it offers.

Yeah. That's what happened to the Columbia River Gorge too... and probably Palo Duro which is 1/2 the size of the Grand Canyon.

About Global warming:

It is certainly getting hotter than normal.. all over the world. (observation)

Did we, mankind, cause it? I doubt it.

Everyone is welcome to their doubts. But as someone who has seriously studied the science behind the cause/effect relationship between carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere, and the amount of co2 we have added, I don't doubt it. The scientific community has pretty much gelled on this one but there are always exceptions.

Yet, some scientists suggest the reason for climate change could be a beginning of another 500 year cycle in the solar activity...

Certainly, the Human activity is the major contributer, but not the sole reason for the Global Warming. Much of it could be coincidental!

By no means do I suggest waiting for it to pass...
Nevertheless, some matters -- of the cosmic proportion -- are just beyond of our control:
like the inevitablity of approaching the narrow part of the Milky Way (our galaxy) that is much closer to the centre of the galaxy. The last time our planet passed that point was about 65,000,000 years ago -- approximately the time of dinosaurs extinction (give or take a couple of thousands of years)...
. . . Coincidence ? ? ?

And then the Evolution starts all over...

I've read somewhere that our's -- from the Neanderthal times to the present -- is the 5th civilization! * * * * * * * *

That explains why -- in the midst of the worst world economic crisise -- US and Russians are getting ready for the mission to Mars next year! I guess, we still have a few thousands of years for packing our suitecases...

Nevertheless, that doesn't mean the humanity should not stop polluting the atmosphere and trip itself in every way... (after all, our descendants would still have to live on this planet for quite a while. . .)

Hi Jane,

I looked some of this up to see what I could find. Objects tend to orbit the center of the primary plane of circulation or the galactic plane for short. What we are passing through is the galactic plane, not the center of the galaxy. There is supposed to be a much higher probability of debris in the plane so, as we pass thought it, we could hit something large or something large could hit any number of objects in our Oort cloud or asteroid belt and cause a chain reaction to cause something to hit us. No one really knows how much stuff is in the plane because the objects are fairly small and far away at the moment. The asteroid which hit 63 millions years ago is thought to have been seven miles in diameter.

. . . . Centre (view from above)
. . . ............. __|__
Our galaxy: (---*---.)<---Solar System designated as a dot
. . . ........... .(_____)
. . . - --> clock-wise rotation

What galactic plane are you referring to?

The planer disc through the centroid. Let me see if I can find a graphic and I'll post it for you. The center is one dimensional. The galactic plane is two dimensional. We orbit about the center but our orbit meanders through the centroidal plane. The plane would be the disc made if the galaxy was a flat disc, which it is not.

However, while I am trying to find a suitable graphic, here is the article I found that I think represents the theory you are presenting.




Begin Quote:

Horoscope enthusiasts will be happy to hear that a grand cosmic force does indeed seem to be responsible for controlling the direction of all life on Earth. However, this grand cosmic cycle has more to do with extinction than finding a tall, handsome stranger.

Earlier this year, research revealed that the rise and fall of species on Earth seems to be driven by the undulating motions of our solar system as it travels through the Milky Way. Some scientists believe that this cosmic force may offer the answer to some of the biggest questions in our Earth’s biological history—especially where evolution has fallen short.

Researchers at the University of California, Berkeley found that marine fossil records show that biodiversity increases and decreases based on a 62-million-year cycle. At least two of the Earth's great mass extinctions-the Permian extinction 250 million years ago and the Ordovician extinction about 450 million years ago-correspond with peaks of this cycle, which can't be explained by evolutionary theory.

Earlier this year, a team of researchers at the University of Kansas came up with an out-of-this-world explanation for the phenomenon. Their idea hinges upon the fact that stars move through space and sometimes rush headlong through galaxies, or approach closely enough to cause a brief cosmic tryst.

Our own star moves toward and away from the Milky Way's center, and also up and down through the galactic plane. One complete up-and-down cycle takes 64 million years- suspiciously close to the Earth's biodiversity cycle.

Once the researchers independently confirmed the biodiversity cycle, they then proposed a novel mechanism whereby which the Sun's galactic travels is causing it.

It’s no secret that the Milky Way is being gravitationally pulled toward a massive cluster of galaxies, called the Virgo Cluster, which is located about 50 million light years away. Adrian Melott and his colleague Mikhail Medvedev, speculate that as the Milky Way rushes towards the Virgo Cluster, it generates a so-called bow shock in front of it that is similar to the shock wave created by a supersonic jet.

"Our solar system has a shock wave around it, and it produces a good quantity of the cosmic rays that hit the Earth. Why shouldn't the galaxy have a shock wave, too?" Melott asks.

The galactic bow shock is only present on the north side of the Milky Way's galactic plane, because that is the side facing the Virgo Cluster as it moves through space, and it would cause superheated gas and cosmic rays to stream behind it, the researchers say. Normally, our galaxy's magnetic field shields our solar system from this "galactic wind." But every 64 million years, the solar system's cyclical travels take it above the galactic plane.

"When we emerge out of the disk, we have less protection, so we become exposed to many more cosmic rays," Melott has said.

The boost in cosmic-ray exposure may have a direct effect on Earth's organisms, according to paleontologist Bruce Lieberman. The radiation would lead to higher rates of genetic mutations in organisms or interfere with their ability to repair DNA damage. In this way, the process could lead to new species while killing off others.

Cosmic rays are also associated with increased cloud cover, which could cool the planet by blocking out more of the Sun's rays. They also interact with molecules in the atmosphere to create nitrogen oxide, a gas that eats away at our planet's ozone layer, which protects us from the Sun's harmful ultraviolet rays.

Richard Muller, one of the UC Berkeley physicists who co-discovered the cycle, said Melott and his colleagues have come up with a plausible galactic explanation for the biodiversity cycle.

If future studies confirm the galaxy-biodiversity link, it would force scientists to broaden their ideas about what can influence life on Earth. "Maybe it's not just the climate and the tectonic events on Earth," Lieberman said. "Maybe we have to start thinking more about the extraterrestrial environment as well."


I couldn't find a good graphic so here is a better description.

The Milky Way is a vast spiral galaxy, shaped a bit like a spinning record; just one that measures 100,000 light-years across and only 1,000 light-years thick. Imagine you were below the Milky Way, and passed through the disk of stars above it. That moment when you're halfway through the 1,000 light-year thickness of stars? That's the galactic plane.

Hello Metalwing.

Frankly, I'm surprised you don't prefix your nick-name with the word "Precious" -- that would sound more plausable: PreciousMetalwing!!!

The information you provided is really quite precious * * *
Thanx for your explanations -- I feel ashamed for not comprehending you were referring to the galactic plane. But the fact of the solar system's wobbling above and below that plane is News to me -- I haven't been awared of that!!! That would certainly expose the planet to the harmful cosmic rays more frequently than just when passing closer to the centre of the galaxy...

So, the theory I was referring to has really been confirmed!
In return, I'd like to share with you the information I discovered just recently:

* Analysing the translations of the encient egymptian manuscripts, the scientists have arrived to a conclusion that
SOME OF THE PYRAMIDS HAVE BEEN ERRECTED EVEN BEFORE THE PRESTINE SOCIETY! ! !
And later, the farros have utilized and copied the structures.
(that could explain why the Gaza(?) pyramid cluster resembles the cluster of some stars -- Sirius + ...
What's more, scientists claim, is that the whole set of pyramids represents a grandiose Antena (i.e. receiver)!!! -- while some other scientists claim that pyramids could produce the electric power...

Also, according to the translated scriptures, the manual labor has never been used for building the pyramids. Instead, they used some mysterious machine -- which in the bible is referred to as the Arc of the Covenant!!! (according to the new translations..)

Ther are 34 pyramids in Egypt, 16 in Mexico, and more than 100 in Tibbets (Hindo-China). And I suspect that some of them could be remains from the past civilizations... Seems like even in the 21st century we're bound to stamble upon some very interesting secrets about ourselves...

This is a little off topic but I found a graphic of the galaxy.



This is a view of the galactic plane from the edge. It would look like a circular disc from the top or bottom.

However, to add something on topic. There has been some discussion of "solar activity" causing the current warming trend. This is not the case. The records of Earth's history show some correlation with solar activity with ice ages but the stratosphere has not been warming recently as it would from exposure to additional solar radiation. It is warming in direct proportion to the amount of greenhouse gases present, the largest amount being CO2.

Wow that is highly interesting. It surely is amazing how far we have gone to recognize all of this information.

My dad is a geologist and he reminds me every time this subject comes up that this planet has cycles it goes through. Whether we will survive the cycles is always the important question. This planet goes through arrid times and cold times. The extremes of these will cause problems for the inhabitants of the planet.

I would say for those who are concerned that they must treat the information as a warning of what is to come and make plans accordingly.

it will happen. give it time