You could drive the world into a bigger financial crisis than it is now and find out it was all a mistake. Some of the ideas put forth for controlling the hypothetical warming like creating artificial CO2 sequestrations at the bottom of the ocean or deep underground sound extremely risky. We have absolutely no clue what the effects of doing so will be. Another marvelous idea I have heard would be create some sort of stellar sun shade. What are possible effects from that?

Excellent point Thomas

We need to do more research into possible solutions.The rainforests need to be saved that is a certainty.I certainly would be concerned about driving the world into a bigger economic crisis. Good pointBut I am curious as to the nature of this potential financial crisis.I am wondering if this forecast is coming from the fatcat corporations that profit from raping this planets enviroment.Thats usually the way of these things.

Wow 200 million from volcanos' in comparison to 24 billion from humans. Big difference. Thanks for the valuable information

and Wow Houston is much hotter and here I am complaining

Sorry for hijacking your thread so. I know the topic is about something else. I will slowly quiver out of here and just observe the valuable information everyone posts

I just linked an article.

You can comment on the article but don't pretend to know me. That is insulting.

Thomas we can disagree without all the rhetoric and when I see some science I will comment on it.


You also never answered my questions.



And I should have added and then with each eventuality in mind lets look at the raw data.

It's a good article too. I'm even sending the link to my father.

I am speaking only of my interpretations of your statements. I do not make any assumptions of who you are or are not. I merely suggest that the contradictions I see in your posts on this subject hint at an unscientific and hypocritical argument. I gave you several pages that posted alternative peer reviewed scientific information and logical counter arguments to your claims, your response was to suggest through the posting of the article that it was all just lies paid for by oil companies. Quite a contrast to your earlier statement of conspiracy theories. I have to wonder if you even read any of the information contained in these pages, before just making such a blanket statement.

It was 104 here in Houston today. It set the all time high for ANY day in the month of June.

Nice post Winx.

This is a really interesting thread. Kudos to everyone for the discussion.

The question for me is "What can we do about it?" I know all the individual options in terms of living with as small an environmental footprint as possible & try to take responsibility for minimizing my own impact. I also understand that it takes everyone doing that (although how you accomplish that short of previously mentioned world dictator is beyond me!)

But even if we were able to get everyone on-board with a planet-respecting "green" lifestyle today, would it be enough to change the course we are on? Have we gone too far and the cycle is going to play out sooner or later regardless of what we try to do?

Just thinking out loud...

The world has to become naturlists

The question still remains...is it too little, too late?

Smiless. You didn't hijack. I just posted in response to your temperature report, then went on to gripe about the ones who did not even bother to read the 'real' information I had posted before posting old, incorrect, twisted links. I was just being lazy. My fault.

There actually are many things we could and should have already done like driving electric cars when possible. The key element to the Gulf Stream current issues is that, historically, when the current stopped moving, it only took about ten years for it to happen. We can't change fast enough to stop that without making drastic changes ourselves as a species.

Mankind is not designed to eat grain. However, it is the most efficient food to grow and distribute. It is the reason we became civilized. If the Gulf Stream stops, as Wood's Hole has been measuring, the flow of heat from the equator to the arctic will be reduced by a tremendous amount causing major crop failures in the US and Europe. Many people are going to starve and there will be a great deal of political unrest in the world.

As heat builds up in the ocean without the Gulf Stream, weather will be unstable. The number of hurricanes will probably increase in both number and power as they are another method of redistributing heat around the globe. This whole process may happen over just a few years, but the impact will be felt for many, many, many more.

Very true what you say. It is saddening. Actually when I visited Africa as a Red Cross worker I had seen the local wars occurring over water. There have been lakes dissappearing, which were once a valuable resource to humans to survive. Many people have died because of it.

How to stop world population from exceeding would be interesting. I was told that in less then 50 years we will have 10 billion people. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if we would adjust the way we live.

Europe is doing a good job adjusting to the environment. As a German we had to recycle everything. We had 4 trashcans each for specific trash. Brown for brown bottles, Green for Green bottles, white for clear glass, black for waste from food, blue for newspaper or paper.

And if we didn't do it we would get fined 250 Euros.

Alot of things I enjoyed from Germany as a result of better environment control. It is too bad the rest of the world cannot follow or believes it is essential in preserving our planet.

As a result here in the states we have two trashcans. One for glass and one for newspaper, but no one does it except for me on the whole entire block I live in. Many just throw everything in one trash can. It is not enforced over here.

I would say we can learn alot from Europe, including the use of electricity, cars, etc. etc.

As I am no expert, I wish that we do take in more thought as a whole on how we can keep this planet alive and going.

Reminds me of a movie I watched by Keanu Reeve. When the Day Stood Still - Alien comes to the planet and is to eliminate humans because they had the chance to live on the planet, but since they destroy it the advanced aliens are to destroy the humans to preserve the planets atmosphere. The reason is because it is know in this galaxy that only 5 planets contain oxygen and all the elements needed for live to sustain, so they had to preserve this planet and destroy the humans and their destructive ways. Of course in the end a scientist influenced the alien not to destroy the planet and give the humans one last chance in changing their ways.

It was a powerful movie made in 2008.

I say being a naturlist is a great start, but how many are willing to give up luxuries in real life? I fear not many, so it is enevitable we will never change and the consequences are yet to come.

A world dictator who is a humanatarian and naturlist that thinks of how to preserve the planet would be great. Unfortunately that won't ever happen with some many diverse minds floating around and mother Earth has no other choice but to do its biddings on us.

Somehow I doubt that any possible solutions could match both humanitarian and naturalistic practices - or at least the general perception of what that means. The term "humanitarian" conjures up visions of doing no harm to anyone/any species and the reality is that 10 billion people are probably more than the planet can support - particularly true if we continue to live as we do. It's already very clear, based on environmnetally linked deaths world-wide (famine, drought, natural disasters, etc) that we've reached critical limits. But to suggest that reducing the population is humanitarian in nature is never going to be an accepted idea and no amount of arguing for the "common good" or the benefit of "most" will change that outlook.

Sadly, I don't see a viable solution and I think this issue will continue to be a concern throughout my lifetime and probably the lifetimes of my children. How long it will take for Mother Earth to finally give it up completely is hard to predict. Even a world dictator would be hard pressed to fix this, IMO. Maybe that Keanu Reeve's movie alien is just the ticket?

I believe if the complete population was educated in the ways of humanatarian and naturlist lifestyle our planet would have a better chance of surviving longer. Natural disasters will always happen, but it is mentioned by many that the increased global warming created by humans trigger more natural catastrophies then intended.

Most European countries are declining or keeping a balance on its population. The costs of living maybe too high for most that having a child is not desired although they have great social programs such as free day care, healthcare, education, and nurses that go and help you out when having a child, but I think primarily many don't want to have children because they know of the impact this world is taking. In otherwords they are educated (most of them) not to have 5 children anymore. I know such thinking is often refuted here in the states, but it seems to help keep the population to not increase in Europe. Practically everywhere else the population growth is exceeding at large amounts. Just think here in the states 700,000 teenagers are pregnant each year! They don't even know what they are getting into. They didn't even live a life yet! Quadruple that in Africa, South America, and Asia! The southern states tend to have larger families then the northern states.

So I think drastic measures would have to take place to preserve this planet. I mean we know the planet will not live forever anyway, but it can live for a very long time allowing us to perhaps create technology to fly to other planets that have the same elements we humans need to survive. It is said by scientists that the planet is getting closer to the sun or the sun is expanding its waves every so odd centuries. How much merit this truly has is something each can judge for themselves. I don't think the sun will last forever also.

Yet if anything the alien movie was a eye opener, but I believe that we can preserve this planet if more people talk about the ramifications of what can happen to us as a people if we don't do anything, and also educate as much as possible the significance of what must be done to save a beautiful blue planet we live on.

I would like to think it is not too late even if things look grim at the moment.

Here are a few links for you all to ignore, but still debunk.

Here is one from whoi, that talks about how an ocean conveyor pump that had mysterious shut off (many I'm sure assumed it was AGW) just recently mysteriously turned itself back on. Maybe it is natural process that they turn on and off occasionally.
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12455&tid=282&cid=54347

Here is one from whoi again talking about how they are finding evidence that the sun has been responsible for dramatic heating and cooling in long ago history of the Earth, but they conveniently leaves it in the long ago, stopping short of suggesting that that same sun and same warming could be could be happening now.
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12455&tid=282&cid=18371

Here is a fun one a article about a report suggesting that our efforts to reduce warming may have caused warming.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/09/arctic_aerosols_goddard_institute/

Testimony before congress by a skeptic.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/ctest.pdf

And finally this one is especially for you Bushidobillyclub, you wanted science, here is so 860 pages worth.
http://www.heartland.org/publications/NIPCC%20report/PDFs/NIPCC%20Final.pdf

You ignored what was already posted, maybe you'll ignore this too, but at least one person cares about the truth.

Let me clue you in Thomas. If you start with vitriol then most people will not care to listen.

If you start with respect, then you will get respect.

Science should not be political, nor personal. You have made this both on the very first page of this thread.

Shame on you.

Topics like this one are difficult for laymen, and thus all the more important to remain calm, not to name call, not to make it personal, and don't call people idiots (or question there intelligence) for not being professionals in the field in question.

If you take a position of respect, and apologize, then I am sure everyone you have been so rude with would be happy to review this information.

Otherwise your just spouting to spout.

Wow ThomasJB that is alot to read! One thing for sure is that there are alot of opinions going around and so many different idealogies and beliefs that it is envitable that the human race will not agree on any certain topic. I don't think the planet has to do anything before the human race doesn't exist anymore. What ashame!

Where are those aliens at. Beam me away from here!

In a debate both side should examine the others arguments and supporting evidence. All I have see from the opposition to my ideas is saying that I am mistaken and insinuating that I falling for some large conspiracy theory. I have no evidence anyone has evaluated any of the supporting evidence I presented. I see the vitriol starting with other side on this debate. Only it has been more subtle.
Forgive me if I'm a little peeved. It is subject that I have done a lot of study in. To have my ideas immediately tossed aside without any review and associated as conspiratorial lies and falsehoods is degrading to the time I put into learning about them.

I am not the opposing side. I told you early that this is not my field of study.

I am open to ideas, but like I said if it has the flavor of conspiracy theory I want to see published work otherwise my experience shows me that I tend to waste a lot of time reading poorly designed "theories".

I will check your links tonight and ask relevant professionals that I go to school with once I understand the basics of the arguments against AGW.