See Jeannie this is exactly what I'm talking about here.

Thie is the major difference between people who tend to think in terms of the law of attraction, versus in terms of witchcraft.

People who speak in terms of the law of attraction tend to be suggesting that your thoughts are the primary cause of everything. Period!

Witchcraft, on the other hand, is more about invoking, directing, and focusing spiritual energy.

So in witchcraft it's absolutely necessary that you focus on what you are hoping to redirect the energy to overcome.

People who talk about the "law of Attraction" tend to suggest just the opposite.

This is almost an issue that could be used to claim that they can't both be true. One is right and the other is wrong.

They have a lot in common in recognizing that natural energies can be used to manipulate manifestations, but they have almost opposite views of precisely how that should be done.

Witchcraft seems to be implying that actual physical vibrations exist in everything and can be redirected.

Where people who talk about the "law of attraction" act like it's almost entirely in the mind. Thinking is what causes it not the manipulation of vibrational energy.

So while they have a lot in common, their methodologies seem to be opposed.

That just sounds like a typical religious excuse.

"Maybe God said no to your prayer."

I think it either works or it doesn't.

So I don't find the excuses that suggest that maybe magick just isn't very powerful very satisfying.

That's just saying that magick is weak and not very effective.

Maybe you can use it to cure a little thing that would have probably gone away on it's own, but applied to any serious problem forget it.

That sure doesn't make magick look very useful.

This sounds true enough but not really. But any creative technique that works also must include feeling, belief, intention etc. It is a very specific formula that is more than 'mental.' It involves feeling and excitement and emotion.



Which is all done with the mind.



The bottom line is that you must focus on what you want, more than what you do not want.

This is not to say you can't 'see' the thing you do not want. You must see it in order to know that you do not want it. But you must focus on what you do want more than on what you don't want.

You will always attract or be attracted to the situation you focus on most.



The only thing 'wrong' is not understanding the law and not using the formula correctly.



There are many different creative techniques. There are also ways to gage whether they are working by paying attention to how you are feeling about what you are doing. You never need to be in the dark about whether or not your technique is working. You can always tell by gaging how you are feeling.



I just do what works for me.

I'm sure if you understand the law of attraction you will have better luck using witchcraft as your creative technique.

As I have said before, I view witchcraft as a creative technique and the law of attraction as what makes it work.

I do not see them as opposing methodologies.

Now, if you would read the book you might understand what I am saying.

"The Law of Attraction" Esther and Jerry Hicks
"Ask and it is Given" Esther and Jerry Hicks
"The Science of getting Rich" Wallace D. Wattles

But as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

The rest is up to the horse.

Yes, but not soley with the mind. The idea behind witchcraft is that of 'elemental' magick. (i.e. there is spiritual energy in objects) And that energy can be redirected and transformed to change the manifestion of other objects (i.e. remove disease)

The main thrust behind the Law of Attraction is to simply visualize what you want.



Owl see if I can find these specific books in the library. But I've already read a lot about the law of attraction. It's not like I'm in the dark on the subject.

In fact, much of what I've read I wasn't overly impressed with. Must of what they say is just practical sense. If you go out into the world with a positive view you'll achieve positive results, if you go out into the world with a negative view you'll receive negative results.

I've already surmised that on my own.

But there's nothing mysterious about that. That's just common sense.

I'm talking about things like curing disease etc. Truly 'supernatural' stuff.

Just like the book entitled "The Science of Getting Rich". I would shy away from such a book simply because that's not my goal. Had I wanted to become rich in this life I'm sure I would have achieved that goal. That just isn't on my list of things to do.

I'm more interested in being able to do things that I supposedly can't do.

Like repairing my health.

If I want to become a millionaire that's a totally different thing. I don't need magick to become a millionaire. All I need is the desire to become a millionaire.

It's just not something I'm interested in doing. It's not that I don't know how to do it.

There's no magick required for that.

How do you know he did spells to stop his illness?

I keep seeing that add on TV for Cancer Treatment Centers of America (just using cancer as an example because its serious and terminal in many instances) and part of their approach to treatment is what they refer to as "Mind-Body Medicine" I dont know exactly what that entails but I would imagine that an important aspect of it would be trying to get the patient into the frame of mind that allows healing to take place and strengthens the body's own resistance to illness (and treatment). In the case of something like cancer, thats not going to do it alone but that in conjunction with traditional treatments can certainly be beneficial and extend a person's life. Some patients will even go into complete remission utilizing ALL of these techniques combined.

My personal feeling is once a person decides they cant fight something and they are dieing and there is no way around it, they will most assuredly hasten the process of death on their own time. Animals accomplish this also.

I also don't remember ever hearing Cunningham state that he has magick "down pat". James, I'm afraid if you are expecting to be able to learn how to do spells that will perform miracles everytime you use it, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

I have had some truly miraculous results from spells. I have had some spells that took so many months to manifest I forgot I did a spell for it. I have had a couple of spells fail miserably.

Slow down a bit. You're getting ahead of yourself as far as what this is all about. It's not something you will figure out after reading one book or even two or three. This is a process that takes years of study AND practice. Many of the answers you seek cannot be found in books anyway. They will come to you through many different means as time goes by.

Amen to that Ruth.

I have spent 40 years of my life learning how to paint pictures and do a decent job of it. I have heard so many people say, "I tried that and I just wasn't any good at it."

And then there is my best friend who desires to paint like the old masters do. I started teaching her to paint and in six months she was doing pretty good. But she was unhappy because she could not paint as good and as fast I could.

My god I'd e been doing it for 40 years and she for only six months what did she expect?--

Don't even bother Abra. If you don't want to own them then you aren't interested. I have bought at least six of the "Law of Attraction" because every time I loan one out to someone they refuse to give it back. They offer to pay me, but they won't give it back. Today I am going to order another one because I can't find mine anywhere. I must have loaned it to someone and forgot.

As far as "The Science of Getting Rich" is concerned it is one you should read whether you want to get rich or not.

It contains everything you need to know about the Law of Attraction although it does not use that term. (Its not just about getting rich.)

And don't worry, you won't get rich just by reading it, so you're safe from the curse of wealth.

In fact, that book states that everything you need to know to acquire abundance (and fulfill your desires) is contained in that book and that one book is all you need to ever read on the subject of success and getting what you want..... unless you would just like to hear another person's take on the techniques.

I recommend the Esther and Jerry Hicks books because I like them and they go into detail and are very clearly written.

But you probably don't need these books at all! You have it all figured out already.

And so now I will cease to give you any more suggestions or advice on this subject because I am neither a "preacher" or a teacher of the secrets to success.

I myself am just barely learning these a creative techniques and I love to share it with any interested people because I am very excited about it.

You are not interested. You already know everything you want to know. I apologize to you if I ever sounded like I was "preaching."

JB

JB, I don't think you were preaching at all. It's a subject most of us here are interested in and I have learned a lot reading all the posts by everyone here.

The one thing about all this that is very different from other religions/beliefs, is that none of us are trying to convince anyone else that our way is the "right" way. Finding the right way is an individual process or path and it will be a little different for everyone.

Thank you Ruth. As far as I know I am the only one who blabs on and on about it and Abra referred to "people" (not mentioning me by name) who "preach" the Law of Attraction."

I personally don't know anyone who preaches that, I don't know how may preachers Abra knows who preach it.



This is so true. Everyone is on an individual path ... and all paths lead to... more paths...

Actually you have peaked my interest on the Hicks' books. I have looked at them before but never actually read one. Maybe it's time.

One thing I was thinking about....I cannot stress enough the need for regular meditation or at least quiet time. Meaning the mind is quiet. It is during these times that I have received answers to my questions. It takes time and effort to truly quiet the mind. But, it's worth it in the long run.

Why wouldn't he? He wrote books with spells in them for banishing disease. Why wouldn't he use them? Do you think he was a suicidal masochist and wanted the discomfort of the disease?



You're right. In fact many times he offers that he's just passing on the folklore and for the readers to pick and choose what works for them. It appeared to be doing the same thing.



I'm scientific minded. I believe in reason and in the scientific method of getting to the bottom of things methodically. For this reason I feel that anything can be whittled down to a "science", even spiritual matters. And therefore with proper understanding I see no reason why fairly rapid progress can be made.

Of course I am in agreement with you that witchcraft is partly art and art takes time to master.

Reason is the understanding part of it. Trying to get a handle on exactly what it is that you are attempting to accomplish and therefore having a good solid understanding of what arts need to be practiced and learned. In witchcraft this would come down to the 'science' of creating good solid rituals that will accomplish the goal.

Art is the actual performance of the ritual. Meditation, grounding, centering, invoking and raising energy etc. In fact, it is this part of witchcraft that excites me. This is where the actual manipulation of energy comes into play. This is the art.

However, if we start out going about it wrong, then perfecting that wrong technique will never work. (assuming there truly is 'science' behind it). In other words, if some things really do work, and other things truly don't work then you can practice the wrong things your entire life and you'll still never succeed. All you'll do is prefect techniques that don't produce the results you want.

Here's something I've recognized that could have been Scott's nemesis

First off, I am in agreement with what JB says about always focusing only on what you want, and not on what you want to get rid of.

That makes perfect sense to me. However, Scott wasn't doing that all the time! His books clearly show this. For example, consider the incantation from one of Scott's books:

The Healing Fire

He sets up a fire ritual, summons the energies in a magick ritual and then chants the following incantation,...


Burn the sickness
in your flame
burn the sickness
that would maim
burn the illness
by your might
in your light
heal me of the illness - pain
heal me of
all that's bane
heal me and
set me free
with my will
so must it be!


Well, like Jeannie points out, this is totally focused on what he doesn't want!

He's directing all his energy into disease. He actually bringing the vision of the disease into sharp focus in his mind. He may have even meditated on the disease before he began the ritual.

The idea is that he is attempting to banish the disease. But in spite his efforts he may have actually been invoking it rather than banishing it. Simply because he went about it all wrong.

Maybe he should have been focusing on the good health that he wanted and wrote an incantation something like the following (owl just make one up)


Flames of fire
help me aspire
to the perfect health
that I desire

Purge me with your energy
merge with me in synergy

A perfect body I envision
without a touch of indecision
Cleans me with your dancing flame
make so, as I proclaim

~~~

This ritual is focused on what is wanted instead of what is attempting to be banished.

Always focusing and directing the energy toward what we want makes perfect sense. I'm not so sure that the banishing spells are a good idea. We should always strive to focus on invoking what we want and never bother with focusing on a banishing spell.

This may be paramount.

I've already recognized this with the broom. Even though I have never even used one yet.

Instead of imagining the broom as sweeping away negative vibrations (a negative thought focused on negative vibrations), I prefer to think of it as simply filling the area with the good vibrations that have been charged and stored in the broom. Any negative energies will automatically be canceled out or brought into the same frequency with the good vibrations which are overwhelmingly more powerful because the broom had been charged during meditation with an excess of good vibes. Plus, if used only for this purpose it becomes attuned to good vibes and thus it becomes a natural oscillator of good vibes.

So there's no need to envision it as sweeping away negative energies, but rather as filling the space with good energy (view it more as a wand than a broom).

In fact, it's good that this came up, because this question has been heavy on my mind. How are these energies transformed and directed? What's actually going on? How do you banish a disease by directing energy to it in a negative spell?

I've already been having trouble with that concept.

Well, maybe you don't. Many that isn't what should be done. Maybe a better idea is to focus on the health and encourage that manifestation of the energy to become the dominant vibration and then the disease will simply be overwhelmed by vibrations that are incompatible with it and just die out on its own because of this.

So maybe Scott was good at raising energy and casting circles. And maybe he had good results when performing positive invocations because he was focusing on what he wanted. But maybe his banishing spells weren't working because he was actually directing the energies into the thing he wanted to banish (illness) rather than directing the energy into what he wanted to invoke (good health).

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what works and what doesn't work.

Clearly something wasn't totally working for Scott. I can't imagine that he didn't perform spells and rituals to banish his disease. But the reason they didn't work may very well have been because he was focusing on banishing the disease instead of focusing on invoking good health?

If that's the case then we must beware of the banishing spells in his books, and instead, rewrite them into invocation spell that do just the opposite.

That would explain why he couldn't rid his body of disease. He may have been directing power to focus on the disease instead of focusing it on the good health that he wanted.

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what's going on and why things may not have always worked for Scott. That wouldn't negate everything he's done. As I say, he may have been really good at raising and directing energy. Where he might have failed was in fully understanding how to direct it to manifest the desired results. In other words, he might have been meditating and writing and incantations that directed the energy to aid and assist what he didn't want, instead of directing them to aid and assist what he did want.

Just a thought.

I'm not dismissing Scott's powers or abilities at all, I'm just suggesting that he may have been misdirecting them in certain cases without realizing it.

This is what I meant when I told you that with your poetic ability you could write an entire book of rhyming incantations!

This example is exactly what I was talking about.

You could probably finish a book in no time at all and put it up for sale via the Internet in PDF format.

If you write one, you can create a PDF ebook in no time at all and begin selling it.



I will help you sell it for a percentage.

This isn't all about witchcraft for me. I'm going through a major transformation period in my life as a whole.

For example, the remodeled living room fits in prefectly with the Earth, Air, Fire and Water thing.

But things like keeping birds, for example, is something that I've been wanting to do for quite some time.

They just fit in with this picture so well.

I'm actually not going that far out of my way to build this 'temple' as I call it. It's just a matter of arranging the things that I'm already attracted to in ways that harmonize with this Earth, Air, Wind, and Fire story.

In fact, this is what has attracted me to both tarot, and witchcraft.

I'm naturally attracted to earthy things and the concept of elemental magic.

What has excited me most recently about witchcraft was indeed Scott's very abstract approach to it.

The downplay of the precise mythologies via abstraction, and the focus on the emotional and psyche aspects.

To me this is something a scientist can sink his teeth into.

Whilst I realize that much of it is indeed spiritual (emotional energy), that needs to be accessed via meditation and ritual methods, I can also see the underlying scientific reasoning behind it (which is important to me).

So it's not that I'm anxious to dive in and expect spectacular result instantly. In fact, I don't expect that at all.

It's just that I'm excited to have something to work with that looks like it has a solid foundation beneath it.

Clearly I'm taking it in my own direction. But it's that abstract freedom that appeals to me so much. If it became a rigid dogma then I'd probably pass and look into something else.

So, yes, I am excited. But I'm not off to the races. I'm just talking about a lot of things that I'd like to accomplish. They're going to take time to develop.

I don't expect much from my first year. But I am excited about starting in with the new rebirth of the God on December 21st.

That's a perfect place to enter the process I think. Being born anew with the sun God and then following in the footsteps of the God through the seasons, whilst simultaneously learning how to invoke and access the powers of the Goddess via the cycles of the moon.

It's so cool.

You can't possibly know that he did or did not use magick to try and cure his illness just because you would.

I have never used magick for a healing spell for myself and I have lupus.

Double post

Of course I can't know. But none the less it makes sense to me that a man who wrote books on how to use magick for healing would have applied it to himself.

So it makes sense to ask why it might not have worked. And if he was using spells to banish the disease instead of invoking good health, maybe that was his nemesis.



Well, my main interest in being able to perform magick is precisely for health reasons. And other things that I couldn't normally have power over.

What's the point in knowing how to wield magic if you don't use it to better yourself (including your health)?

I thought this was the whole idea behind it.

You certainly can and should try to use magick to better your situation. However that is not always the goal for everyone who practices. You remind me of the people who say to me "if you're psychic how come you can't just pick the winning lotto numbers and be rich?"

I had a guy ask me the same thing. I told him I had never thought of using magick to get money, I had always just went strait to using it to get the actual thing that I wanted.

So who needs the money?

Wealth and money are not always the same thing anyway.

Money is just paper that represents energy exchanges. Its value fluctuates according to the agency that backs it up. Our American dollar actually represents debt. It is an I.O.U. It is not real money. It is a Federal Reserve Note and legal tender. It is not money. It does not represent gold or silver.

JB