Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Philosophy of a global society
Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Thu 08/21/08 10:35 PM
What do you think are the oppressive forces that keep whole countries in the depths of the worst kind of poverty? Greedy self serving (dare I say evil?) men who seek to own and control the world and all its wealth. (I'de say aliens but people just laugh at me. Besides, you can't tell the aliens from the humans anymore anyway.) JB That pretty much says it all JB.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Thu 08/21/08 10:36 PM
I agree identifying the oppressors is paramount but we must start small. Neighborhoods, communities first and then spread it world wide. Identify oppressors, eliminate their power and then build from there. To attempt to attack the world's poverty and disadvantages covers many stages with many different avenues and obstructions. Or at least that is my thoughts on it. I agree start at home and when home is right, then the neighborhood, then the town, city,state etc. until such time as you can move on to other countries in a way that will be long term and worthwhile, you cannot takle it all at once though i sure wish you could. i donot like to think of children and people starving when i see the waste of food here. childrens needs affect me the most! The children break my heart too. They always seem to be the ones who suffer the most from everything posted here.

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/22/08 08:13 AM
I’ll add a some of my own. Oppressors of people: Lack of shelter Lack of medical care Lack of food Lack of clean water Lack of education Lack of resources from which to come by all the above I will have to disagree. The "lack" of something is not an oppressor. There is no lack. The universe is infinitely abundant. If you understood the law of attraction and the creative techniques you would understand this. If you think of lack, visualize lack, complain about lack, focus on lack, fear lack, then you perpetuate and manifest the idea of lack, hence you attract that situation into your reality. You pray for lack, and you create lack in your mind and that is collected and received by the thinking stuff of the universal mind and lack of that thing becomes reality for those who believe it. JB how much good does that concept do the children that wil die today all over the world JB? can you, will you, go there and look in their eyes as they take their last breath and tell them of the laws of attraction and how they can begin to think about food or health in a positive way and grow healthy and strong with your concepts? I'm not saying your wrong G, i'm saying that the innocent baby in a mothers arms that is to die today, is not going to benefit from it is all. do you have any answers for this reality?

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Fri 08/22/08 08:17 AM
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/22/08 09:07 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 08/22/08 09:12 AM
I’ll add a some of my own. Oppressors of people: Lack of shelter Lack of medical care Lack of food Lack of clean water Lack of education Lack of resources from which to come by all the above I will have to disagree. The "lack" of something is not an oppressor. There is no lack. The universe is infinitely abundant. If you understood the law of attraction and the creative techniques you would understand this. If you think of lack, visualize lack, complain about lack, focus on lack, fear lack, then you perpetuate and manifest the idea of lack, hence you attract that situation into your reality. You pray for lack, and you create lack in your mind and that is collected and received by the thinking stuff of the universal mind and lack of that thing becomes reality for those who believe it. JB how much good does that concept do the children that wil die today all over the world JB? can you, will you, go there and look in their eyes as they take their last breath and tell them of the laws of attraction and how they can begin to think about food or health in a positive way and grow healthy and strong with your concepts? I'm not saying your wrong G, i'm saying that the innocent baby in a mothers arms that is to die today, is not going to benefit from it is all. do you have any answers for this reality? The "concept" itself does no good at all. It is simply the law of creation. It is an automatic law. Consciousness is the observer, the observer manifests reality through the thinking stuff and the thinking stuff collects the thoughts from the thinking centers. The way the powers in control do their controlling is to manipulate the minds and opinions of the people. The reason for terrorism and propaganda is to spread fear and panic. Fear based decisions and visualization of lack and horror contribute to the collective mind. The cause reverts back to the men who control public opinion, war, etc. and seek to exert their influence upon everyone. There is no lack. There is only the wrongful distribution of wealth by thinking individuals who manipulate the minds and the governments and the people. The idea of lack is not a cause.. it is an effect. That is all I am saying. You cannot solve the problem of hunger by growing more food or even by growing it and trying to get it delivered to the people. This is only a temporary solution. It does not teach them how to thrive, it only extends their misery and lack a little longer. It does not solve the problem because lack of food is not the problem. In order to solve the problem you have to identify the problem at its core. That would be to find the cause of lack. Even if you identify the cause and it points to evil men who want to kill via genocide and hunger (as our own government did to the native Americans by killing off the Buffalo) it only identifies the individuals responsible. If you look at their reasons for this, you will find selfishness and fear at the core. Men who want wealth and power are men who fear that if they don't have it they will fall into the worst circumstances of poverty. They fear and they are greedy and selfish. These men truly believe the world will become overpopulated and all resources will be used up and they truly believe that they need to reduce the population of the earth by 2/3. They create wars and they cause hunger and they cut off food supplies and prevent people from thriving as they should and as they would naturally. JB

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/22/08 09:11 AM Edited by tribo on Fri 08/22/08 09:12 AM
In order to solve the problem you have to identify the problem at its core. That would be to find the cause of lack. Even if you identify the cause and it points to evil men who want to kill via genocide and hunger (as our own government did to the native Americans by killing off the Buffalo) it only identifies the individuals responsible. If you look at theirs reasons for this, you will find >>> selfishness <<< and fear at the core. Men who want wealth and power are men who fear that if they don't have it they will fall into the worst circumstances of poverty. >>>They fear and they are greedy and selfish.<<< tribo: couldn't agree more!!

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Fri 08/22/08 03:39 PM Edited by Redykeulous on Fri 08/22/08 03:52 PM
(edited) sorry for the redundancy of Tribo's reply,it seems that this post was being written and submitted while others were. I'm leaving it, however, in case anyone decides to look at any of these countries/cities. JB wrote The universe is infinitely abundant. If you understood the law of attraction and the creative techniques you would understand this. If you think of lack, visualize lack, complain about lack, focus on lack, fear lack, then you perpetuate and manifest the idea of lack, hence you attract that situation into your reality. You pray for lack, and you create lack in your mind and that is collected and received by the thinking stuff of the universal mind and lack of that thing becomes reality for those who believe it. JB, what in the world are you doing sitting there, sister. Here, a list of countries and cities in which your vision can greatly serve humanity. Have you ever considered going to one of these places and teaching this vision? Or at the very least going there and show them how it can work for you, so they can adopt it also? I assume these people could learn your principles even though most are sick or starving and have very little, if any education. I don’t suppose that matters, does it? Heck if it’s that easy, who needs to send food, they should be swimming in fresh fruit and veggies before you know it. (any comments?) >>>>>Africa<<<<< Angola Benin Burkina Faso Burundi Cape Verde Central African Republic Chad Comoros Congo, Dem. Rep. of the Djibouti Equatorial Guinea Eritrea Ethiopia Gambia Guinea Guinea-Bissau Lesotho Liberia Madagascar Malawi Mali Mauritania Mozambique Niger Rwanda Sao Tome and Principe Senegal Sierra Leone Somalia Sudan Tanzania Togo Uganda Zambia >>>>>Asia<<<<< Afghanistan Bangladesh Bhutan Cambodia Lao PDR Maldives Myanmar Nepal Timor-Leste Yemen >>>>Australia and the Pacific<<<< Kiribati Samoa Solomon Islands Tuvalu Vanuatu >>>>>Caribbean<<<<< Haiti http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/least_developed_countries.htm

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Fri 08/22/08 03:48 PM
Dragoness I agree identifying the oppressors is paramount but we must start small. Neighborhoods, communities first and then spread it world wide. Identify oppressors, eliminate their power and then build from there. To attempt to attack the world's poverty and disadvantages covers many stages with many different avenues and obstructions. Or at least that is my thoughts on it. Tribo I agree start at home and when home is right, then the neighborhood, then the town, city,state etc. until such time as you can move on to other countries in a way that will be long term and worthwhile, you cannot takle it all at once though i sure wish you could. i donot like to think of children and people starving when i see the waste of food here. childrens needs affect me the most! We were trying that until the Eisenhower years, CCR says it quite rhythmically (5 year plans and new deals, wrapped in golden chains, and I wonder, still I wonder, Who’ll stop the rain) People decided the problem was too big, or that people refused to take on the responsibility and so the government should take over. Something strange happened in the years that followed. More and more was expected of the government and the government collected more and more from the people, those people who didn’t seem to have enough to spare, suddenly had enough to pay the needed amount in taxes. But the problem HERE in this country, is that education is free at least up to college level. Welfare and aid assistance is abundant and assistance via federal and state aid and scholarships and grants to pursue higher education, for those "in need" is more than enough to cover the cost. Jobs can be found for those who are able and capable, they just don't want them. Those who remain poor, in poverty without a valid reason, in this country choose to be there. So Tribo your idea can never work, not in a country such as ours. We have taken care of this countries poor and there are still those who want the government to consider taking better care. So be it, it’s the price we pay for looking the other way, for complaining about being the only ones to assist our neighbors and giving over that responsibility to the government. Am I turning a blind eye or showing a cold shoulder to those who need assistance, NO, to those who are lazy, YES. And there are those who would say, and what of the children of the lazy and the drug abusers – I say, they live in poverty where assistance is free and in a country where the way out of poverty is school and it's free. For those who live oppressed in any other way within this country, there are abundant avenues through which to herald change and they are being used,constantly, therefore, Tribo, we have done what we can do within our own country and continue to do so. What I see in what you and Dragoness have to say is basically what I see in most responces to this kind of philisophical discussion. The inability to fathom the overall hugeness of the problems. I see people with big hearts, so big they forget to close them when it's time. I see people who wish they knew what to do, where to begin, whom to trust and without looking any further, they put the hugness of the problem away. What can I possibley do, I'm just one person? Is that not a big problem for most individuals? I know for a fact it has always been so for me.

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Fri 08/22/08 04:02 PM
There is no lack. There is only the wrongful distribution of wealth by thinking individuals who manipulate the minds and the governments and the people. The idea of lack is not a cause.. it is an effect. If such wealth tips the scales, it cannot be shown in only a few hands. Every American citizen has their share of wealth. Certainly you and I and everyone here,in fact almost every American, has more than we need. Yet we are not all clammering to send our excess somewhere else, are we? That is all I am saying. You cannot solve the problem of hunger by growing more food or even by growing it and trying to get it delivered to the people. This is only a temporary solution. It does not teach them how to thrive, it only extends their misery and lack a little longer. It does not solve the problem because lack of food is not the problem. Then we TEACH them to thrive. Your original concept that the wealth of this world needs to be properly redistributed, makes no sense in light of this last comment you make. JB, giving people food and money, is not the same as giving them food while you educate them to better care for themselves and their fellow citizens. [qutoe]In order to solve the problem you have to identify the problem at its core. That would be to find the cause of lack. Now you're with it. The cause of lack is not because those in the severest form of poverty are not manefesting a proper attitude. Even if you identify the cause and it points to evil men who want to kill via genocide and hunger (as our own government did to the native Americans by killing off the Buffalo) it only identifies the individuals responsible. If you look at their reasons for this, you will find selfishness and fear at the core. Men who want wealth and power are men who fear that if they don't have it they will fall into the worst circumstances of poverty. They fear and they are greedy and selfish. In parts of the world where innocent people are caught up in such horrible scenarios, are we to look away until a winner has been declared? If there is a situation of genocide, do WE THE PEOPLE have no say in our oun countries conscience? Barring our country getting involved, are we not, as individuals FREE to find ways to send assistance. If someone at that end is willing to risk life and limb for food, water, medical attention or supplies, should there not be individuals willing to risk "something" at this end???

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Fri 08/22/08 04:06 PM Edited by Redykeulous on Fri 08/22/08 04:10 PM
so far the focus still seems to be on the power. Are indivdiduals so powerless to make a difference in the poverty that exists in this world? Or is it that our self-efficacy has been oppressed? The belief that we, as individuals, have some power to make a differnce has been strangled? Do you all believe that? I'm out for the night and for the day tomorrow. Sorry, schedule is so full.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/22/08 04:27 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 08/22/08 04:56 PM
(edited) sorry for the redundancy of Tribo's reply,it seems that this post was being written and submitted while others were. I'm leaving it, however, in case anyone decides to look at any of these countries/cities. JB wrote The universe is infinitely abundant. If you understood the law of attraction and the creative techniques you would understand this. If you think of lack, visualize lack, complain about lack, focus on lack, fear lack, then you perpetuate and manifest the idea of lack, hence you attract that situation into your reality. You pray for lack, and you create lack in your mind and that is collected and received by the thinking stuff of the universal mind and lack of that thing becomes reality for those who believe it. JB, what in the world are you doing sitting there, sister. Here, a list of countries and cities in which your vision can greatly serve humanity. Have you ever considered going to one of these places and teaching this vision? Or at the very least going there and show them how it can work for you, so they can adopt it also? I assume these people could learn your principles even though most are sick or starving and have very little, if any education. I don’t suppose that matters, does it? Heck if it’s that easy, who needs to send food, they should be swimming in fresh fruit and veggies before you know it. (any comments?) For the sake of space I deleted the names of the countries you listed. Red wrote: "Heck if it’s that easy, who needs to send food, they should be swimming in fresh fruit and veggies before you know it." Sending food will not solve the problem. As I said, that would only be a temporary solution. Besides, you would have to have massive wealth in order to send food to the masses of people you claim need "food" and then to keep sending it on a continued basis. Who on earth has that kind of massive wealth? Well the massively wealthy ones that's who. But these are the ones who are the cause of most of it in the first place. They incite war and cause hunger in their efforts to obtain all the real wealth in the world and reduce the population of the earth for their own greedy concerns. They will even start charitable organizations to suck money from the average citizen who thinks they are helping the poor but are really just giving their hard earned money to the corporations owned by the massively wealthy war mongering men who want to control the earth. I'm not saying all charitable organization are corrupt but many of them are. And if it were "that easy" to teach people how to direct their thoughts and attention away from things they fear and lack, then everyone would have the life they dream of. Telling people how the law of attraction works and how creativity works will not work at all, if they don't believe it and if they don't learn to practice it or understand it, and especially if all they are concerned with is survival. If a poor person has no hope and does not believe they can pull themselves out of poverty then they will not do it and they will not even try it. It is as simple as that. You cannot force people to change their thinking or to believe that their thoughts are what shape their reality. They, just like you, do not believe it for a second. If I can't convince healthy intelligent people,(like you) then what makes you think I could ever have a chance of convincing poverty stricken starving people of anything? I can't. What they need is not charity. They need hope. They need inspiration. They need to believe in themselves. You can't force education on people. You cannot force a lifestyle on people either. You seem so concerned about saving the entire world. How do you propose to do that? People can't even save themselves. One person at a time is just about all you can do. Help one person at a time. Help them become more positive and hopeful and creative. Help them to help themselves. Help them to learn to be creative. You can't live your life with the weight of the entire world on your back Red. You can only help those who come into your reality and the best way to do that is to give them power to effect their own lives. JB

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/22/08 04:54 PM
Have you ever considered going to one of these places and teaching this vision? Nope. There is no reason for me to go anywhere. I gave up trying to save the world a long time ago. There are enough poverty stricken and needy people right here in my own little tiny town I can teach this vision to, or help however I am able to, and sometimes even getting their attention is next to impossible. I have learned that people will not listen to the solutions and people do not want advice unless they ask for it. Even people who ask me for advice, don't follow it. People walk their own paths, Red. You can't force feed something like this at them. It would be like force feeding religion to them. So I practice the law of allowance and I help people when I know I can actually help. That is all I have the power to do. It is not my mission in life to acquire great wealth and then attempt to save the world. Neither do I have a need to dedicate my life to helping others so I can feel good about myself. But for an atheist, I can see why you might see all the death and poverty and think it should be fixed and people should be saved from the eternity of death, after all, you, as an atheist, don't believe in the eternal soul or life after death, so death and dieing to you is a serious thing. People in third world countries die and there is nothing I can do about it. But I believe that birth and death is just part of the experience and existence of the eternal soul. So I am not inclined to accept any guilt trips from either a true believer or an atheist for what I do or don't do for the poverty stricken less fortunate multitudes on this earth and I don't dwell on the misery of others or live a life of unhappiness because I can't save the world's population. JB

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/22/08 04:58 PM Edited by tribo on Fri 08/22/08 05:10 PM
REDY: Am I turning a blind eye or showing a cold shoulder to those who need assistance, NO, to those who are lazy, YES.""" And there are those who would say""", >>>and what of the children of the lazy and the drug abusers <<<– I say, they live in poverty where assistance is free and in a country where the way out of poverty is school and it's free. TRIBO: wrong my lady, people who are druggies use that money for drugs much more than to feed there kids or even themselves. Foodstamps are sold to buy drugs be it booze or crack or whatever. The "lazy normally don't have kids outside of welfare moms, they have a problem granted, but the problem stems from how they were raised not because they are lazy per se'. If your not given the opportunity and no one cares and you yourself don't care - you will continue to survive however you may be able to. School is not "free" never has been a myth! you need money to attend school - supplies, clothes, food money, just to fit in - to many millions of poor kids have faced the jeers of peers because of who they were, it should not be so! the answer i have is to re-distribute the wealth - no one have an upper hand! no billionaires no homeless, no people going to bed hungry especially children. HOW? very simple - Rid ourselves of the old boys clubs in power and put poeple in that WILL perform as we the people want them to do for posterities sake. That is the power we have if we wouldn't sit on our A** and let the current and past and now again the future rest in the hands of current politicians. Nothing will change as long as corrupt government, big business, and other international interest RUN this country. What happened in the Eisenhower years? The world and powers and the rest were divied up amongst the power that ruled! And the world has been going to hell in a handbasket ever since. We have lost freedoms the founders died for to achieve, we have lost the standing of a power that was once seen as benevolent, we have become that which we say we fight against! It is not up to government to change life here it's up to the citizens of this country- but alas will any do or heed what is necessary? will you? So who will you vote for red? obama? the other guy? one new member of the boys club unproven, the other an old hand at politics as usual? with dinosaurs representing the senate and house? Will this change anything? The engines worn out, you need to replace it!! We at present as the bulk of this country have no say anymore because we donot band together becuase we fell like those in poverty and we are - Do you think for a minute if jefferson washington and the rest who brought about this contry were alive today that they would not once again rebel against the powers that be? not with war - but standing on their rights as "we the people"!! you want powerful words that can cause change? WE THE PEOPLE !!!! WERE tired as hell and were not going to take it anymore!!! But will any listen?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 08/23/08 09:47 AM
I do my part I ply my art I don't pay taxes to support the evil axis. Power to the people! Up with America! Down with the Corporation!

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Sat 08/23/08 12:40 PM
I do my part I ply my art I don't pay taxes to support the evil axis. Power to the people! Up with America! Down with the Corporation! Oh - your just so proud of your self aren't you gaddess - Just remember - pride goeth before the "fall" - hmm? it's just about fall isn't it?? be careful my lady -

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 08/23/08 01:14 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 08/23/08 01:16 PM
I do my part I ply my art I don't pay taxes to support the evil axis. Power to the people! Up with America! Down with the Corporation! Oh - your just so proud of your self aren't you gaddess - Just remember - pride goeth before the "fall" - hmm? it's just about fall isn't it?? be careful my lady - I'm not responsible for that post above. That was one of my alternate personalities. (Probably Jackie T.) She gets me into some deep s*hit sometimes.

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Sat 08/23/08 01:33 PM
I'm not responsible for that post above. That was one of my alternate personalities. (Probably Jackie T.) She gets me into some deep s*hit sometimes. The 12 faces of Jeanniebean. Don't reference her as an example in a prayer. All hell could break loose and yewl never know why!

Jess642 Joined Sat 03/31/07 Posts: 22732	Sat 08/23/08 02:32 PM
What do you think are the oppressive forces that keep whole countries in the depths of the worst kind of poverty? * Perceived wealth being in the form of M-O-N-E-Y. * Lack of resources- either natural, organic, or 'saleable'. * An inverted view of priorities....with a dependency on governmental assistance..,(even if non- existing) * Religious, political, societal oppression. * A separationist world/global view. * Imaginary borders. Uh oh.... am I starting to ramble, soap-box style? Sorry Di, these are off the top of my head. As to solutions...? T - ogether E - veryone A - chieves M - ore. We are not separate.

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Sat 08/23/08 02:38 PM
I do my part I ply my art I don't pay taxes to support the evil axis. Power to the people! Up with America! Down with the Corporation! Oh - your just so proud of your self aren't you gaddess - Just remember - pride goeth before the "fall" - hmm? it's just about fall isn't it?? be careful my lady - I'm not responsible for that post above. That was one of my alternate personalities. (Probably Jackie T.) She gets me into some deep shit sometimes. Dan jackies you just can't trust them huh? is she the one in charge of the universal church of brutal lies and dihonesty??

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 08/23/08 04:18 PM
I do my part I ply my art I don't pay taxes to support the evil axis. Power to the people! Up with America! Down with the Corporation! Oh - your just so proud of your self aren't you gaddess - Just remember - pride goeth before the "fall" - hmm? it's just about fall isn't it?? be careful my lady - I'm not responsible for that post above. That was one of my alternate personalities. (Probably Jackie T.) She gets me into some deep shit sometimes. Dan jackies you just can't trust them huh? is she the one in charge of the universal church of brutal lies and dihonesty?? No, she is the bounty hunter, private investigator, process server.