Allow people to simply accept, reject, question and come to their own conclusions. Now that is a novel idea.

That is the whole principle behind the Roman Catholic Churches belief in theistic evolution. It keeps the belief in a God, but allows for scientific proof. They recongize that Genesis is a fable not science.

if you need to ask what the facts are about dinosaurs on a religious forum then you don't want the facts you want the fictitious beliefs of unrealistic children who have yet to mature and realize that they can't keep believing in their imaginary friend they call god and a whore called mary, now if you want the real truth you should go to your local library and pick up a book on evolution that has not been twisted by mythology

Well then................

Whoa..he makes me look diplomatic.

part of me wants to smack ya.....and say for shame and the other parts wants to high five ya.....hmmmm will think about it and let ya know.

I would actually agree with everything in this statement minus the "whore Mary" reference. I don’t believe she was a prostitute or anything along those lines. I do however believe she was a young woman (probably late teens?) who became pregnant with Jesus. This happened by traditional means. Whether or not this pregnancy occurred consensually or by rape is difficult to ascertain exactly. There are theories to support the later scenario however.

there are lots of theories that attempt to fill gaps as though something is missing and needs to fill the gap with words when nothing but air is apparent.

One of those theories is that the room left between cars on the freeway going 75mph is for the car going 76mph as an invitation to advance and be ahead. But the mishap ahead of the one getting aheadd leaves no room for correction and the fault of the car behind is evident by the damage caused to the one ahead when the one ahead cannot advance as hoped and must correct the assumption made about the gap.

As an excuse, the one ahead cries foul for having been hit from behind and legal consensus would agree that the fault lies with the car behind the one trying to get ahead.

But the same legal consensus is that the gap must be as the car behind has demonstrated in leaving the gap unbridged for the safe allowance of time and correction of trajectory and advance without interfering with the cars ahead.

It is not a race.

And the car behind suffers the offence of having te legitimate gap stolen and the offence of responsibility for damage to the car ahead, foregoing the responsilility of the car ahead and the accountability also of the car ahead for having creating the hazard that the car behind may suffering so far as assmmued culpability is concerned.

It is called putting the cart before the horse.

Your point? Would you care to address what I was actually speaking of or ramble aimlessly on a succession of loosely associated tangents? Besides, what would be your actual concern if I (or anyone else for that matter) attempted to research this issue a little more? You are happy with your depiction of events, someone else might not be. I’m not sure I would consider that a crime or even a minor problem for anyone concerned. Obviously these theories exist because someone else (yes other than me) has an investigative interest in the subject matter as it relates to the circumstances surounding Mary's pregnancy.

it's the same as saying the origins of man are as man says and not the record given says, which is that things are as they are.

Mary was a virgin giving place to the Savior in favor and by the will of God and not the will of man.

Same is true of the fossil record.

Gaps between are gaps between thoise organisn=ms which God made just sa they are by His Word alone, and the gaps are not "fill in the blank" opportunities to imagine otherwise.

Simple and far to advanced for temerity to suffer in patience.

Virtue, not audacity, is the value given the correct observation.

Good idea.

Fair enough Wouldee. It is an interesting topic. I would enjoy discussing it more; however, it can be a touchy subject for some understandably. I never said I was completely sold on the rape theory. I’m actually not entirely certain how they came to that conclusion. Like everything else, there is some kind of "perceived" or relative evidence for it and they are also looking at how Mary and Joseph reacted in certain situations to the impending birth.

It could have also been a voluntary sex act with someone.

wouldee wrote,



But wouldee, what 'wouldee' be your answer to the overwhelming majority of christians, whom reconciliate perfectly in their CHRISTIAN faith, what the 'record given' by faith offers, and what science says about evolution, AS THINGS AS THEY ARE???

Never mind exchanging with people whom don't even borrow the bible as a means to construct their beliefs, and faith. Take it up with the overwhelming majority of some 2,0 billion christians, WHOM 'LIVE' THEIR CHRISTIAN FAITH FULLY, AND 'UNDERSTAND' HOW EVOLUTION IS VERY MUCH 'A INTEGRAL PART' OF THE WHOLE EQUATION.

It's like insisting for your chinese correspondent to speak english, because YOU claim that english is the only possible language for effective communications.

As your mother tongue isn't the only language of ‘effective’ communication, your personal beliefs aren't the only beliefs of ‘effective’ faith, as it were.

No personal belief, nor personal belief systems will ever amount to the RIGHT faith, AND MUCH LESS THE 'RIGHT' TRUTH, in spite of your claims to the contrary.

When it comes to faith, beliefs are not the end of the road as you apply yourself to demonstrate with your particular blend of beliefs .

Beliefs might be the road, or the gas to be on the road, but never the end state in itself, which we all 'SEEK' through our personal beliefs, and our personal faith. (I figured you might appreciate the automobile metaphor!)

'Record given' is a matter of belief to YOU wouldee!!! And that is irreproachable. But that is 'YOUR gas', NOT THE TRUTH (truth for you, but not THE TRUTH!). That is how you construct your personal faith, and faith is profoundly personal. In spite of apologetics and fundamentalist claims, MARKETING, AND MERCHANDIZING will never apply to faith.

.’Record Given’ is possibly a vital belief for you, but don't confuse the gas with 'SEEKING the end state'.
The gas one chooses in one's faith 'travel', is quite secondary, in spite of your insistence that beliefs are the end state, or that there is only a specific set of beliefs to 'SEEK' THE PROPER end state. Can you not see how incoherent that is.

No one 'KNOWS' what the end state (the truth) is. That is why we are all on a 'seeking' journey!!! How can anyone claim to KNOW the right path, in 'SEEKING' that which he NO ONE KNOWS.

To seek implies that we don't HAVE, as in THE TRUTH; thus FAITH!
To 'seek', and yet assert that ‘you have’ at the same time, is a contradiction and a LIE.
To assert that you are no longer 'seeking', because YOU ‘have’ the truth, is pure DELUSION, and is much beyond the competency and mandate of this forum.

Again, beliefs, as in 'records given', are PERSONAL TRUTHS. As such, they are important to YOU, wouldee, but those same personal truths are of no value to anyone else, EVEN WHEN TWO OR MORE PEOPLE SEEM TO SHARE SIMILAR BELIEFS!!!

Faith is not a numbers sport!!!
There are no TEAMS in faith!!!
There are no fights for the CUP of faith!!!

If you insist on faith being a SPORT, then it is the ultimate individual SPORT where the only competition is YOUR 'SELF'!!!

I am not in the know about 'THE' truth (and you and I share that as human beings wouldee), but I'm very clear about WHAT ISN'T TRUE!!!
That is a matter of a clear conscience.
Your clear conscience is none of my business my friend, and reciprocally my clear conscience, or the clear conscience of others is none of your business. However much some might want, sometimes without malice, to 'handle' other people’s conscience, it is a an OXYMORON.

If your beliefs allow you to 'win' the individual 'match sport' against your 'SELF', such that it frees up the spirit to be fully accepting of others, than so be it!!!







Faith is a personal sport against your own ‘self’ wouldee.
Turn that statement around to ‘self’!!!


I’ll take a wild stab at this one, and figure you meant
‘…Virtue, not audacity, is the value ‘given’ (which yields) the correct observation...'

If my interpretation is incorrect, forgive me.

Given my interpretation of your statement, I will say again, I don’t know THE TRUTH, and I share that with you wouldee, and with all other human beings of the planet. But my conscience supports me in distinguishing that your statement simply ISN’T TRUE!!!

YOU don’t have the correct observation, virtuously so, or not. Neither do I, nor anyone else of human origin.

How the heck can you seriously write such assertions?!?!?

'... the correct observation...'

Correct observation to YOU!!! Through virtue if YOU subscribe to it, no problem.

But you have no dominion over mine or anyone else's subscription to virtue, and much less to 'OUR CORRECT PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS'!!!

It's this GROSSLY ERRONEOUS PERSPECTIVE of 'ABSOLUTISM', which confuses beliefs (MY relative TRUTHS) and ‘THE’ absolute TRUTH, over which no one has dominion, regardless of false claims to the contrary.

they existed we got proof!

Whats that? They "existed" or exited or excited?

I haven't read the entire thread so I can only comment on the original post...

It is an interesting and fun read, but the the "scientific method" it follows is only useful as a main ingredient in sandwiches. (As full of holes as Swiss Cheese, or just plain baloney, take your pick.)

I'll just point out one thing: There is no definition given for the term "dinosaur" and the main point of the article itself is to prove that the dictionary definition is false. (“Terrible lizard” is the derivation, not the definition)

Thus, “What the **** are you talking about?” would be a perfectly sensible and legitimate question.

Voila!!!!!!!!!!

speaking for the masses or even yourself is not speaking for me.

speak for yourself.

Take the inspiration entering your heart from the context you give to my words from my heart and make your own point.

You assume too much, as always, about me and the words I share.

Whatever you were hoping to accomplish is lost in your confusion and guesswork.

You may even believe your guesses, which is equitable for your guesses as beliefs, but you romp around imagining things, my friend.

The man from La Mancha can do better than that. LOL So dig deeper, mon capitan.

I will say this again, though, to humor you and all else that have a greater intellect and reason for being than I esteem for myself......

The gaps in the fossil record display the organisms given life by God, as God spoke them into existence.

Clearly, by that record and those gaps on display, man is not long for inhabiting this planet.

But all things are given their physical substance as vessels made uniquely perfect for whatever purpose God enjoined to the life within those vessels.

There is no transition or intermediary between man and any other creature.

Man is man, and that is all there is to it.

The gap is a gap. That is all there is to it.

This present garden is as it is by design and spoken into existence as intended without any hoo haw or help from nature.

Man is subduing this garden to himself and doing what men have always done; coveting the environment and laying personal claim to that which can be dominated and secured for oneself for personal gain, advantage and privilege.

It, the garden, is being systematically destroyed and decimated to the point of not repairing itself.
It is fragile and recent and not an amalgamation of many changes over time yielding any variations of genus and speciation. It is being destroyed and it does not renew itself without man renewing it, in part, not in whole.

Look around the world and see the strafing occuring and having had so occured in the past centuries and mellenia.

The original habitats of this present garden are dying and disappearing because of man.

They were not here before man in their present form, but are here for a reason; to sustain man.

This is school. It is life 101.

Sandbox 101.

Most will never graduate.

See it for what it is, not that which any imposes on it; It being this garden which includes man.

simple.

straightforward.

it is what it is.

everything else is guesses vaingloriously enhanced to be beliefs, and the whole of that nonsense is foolishness.

Now you have some more words to machinate at your perusal.

Do try to refrain yourself and posit some genuine contribution from your own heart. Please be pithy.

Your deconstructions and plyable contrivances upon others words is a ludicrous endeavor born of imaginative guesswork and based on the same ; your own labeled beliefs.

My reaction to the OP also so I agree.

Wouldee,

I wouldn't want to interfere with your new found 'preaching ministry', although I question your better judgment in choosing this dating site to practice it.

But should you find in yourself the minimal courtesy to address the COMMENTS of my post above, which were in reply to COMMENTS you had made yourself on a previous post, it would be appreciated.
It would also be in keeping with the spirit and the rules of this forum: offer comments, opinions, observations based on COMMENTS made by other posters, or points you wish to bring up yourself, that have nothing to do with comments of other posters, but are in keeping with topic of the thread.

Preaching, through approximate and rather vague, and somewhat incoherent language, isn't contributing much to any debate.

Although I don't mind 'debating' some of the statements, comments and observations you make on these threads, you most certainly are not a person whose advice, or counsel I would seek with regards to character, conscience, or faith.

In that light, your preaching is profoundly lost on me, and thus makes it a waste of your time.

Using someone's post to indirectly 'PREACH' to one's 'congragation-in-making' or 'church fan club' is not only rude, but it lacks intelligence and civility.

Reply to the comments I made about your own comments, or don't reply.
Those are the options we all have on this forum. Preaching and pontificating on the other hand, are not appropriate options.