Well actually the founders called it rights WITH responsibility.

They also knew that freedom depended on people being a "good" people, meaning responsible. I think it goes like this... a people who won't govern themselves will live under tyranny.

I think that defines today's brood of selfish unaccountables who want to lord it over people who actually do the heavy lifting in this world.

Our founders knew that religion would be the conscience man needed to survive & evolve. Their writings are ripe with their belief in God.

I'm sure some here want to erase anything that would disagree with their lies. Go ahead... make our day. Don't look now but here comes the revisionist's version of history.

hate to break anyones heart but the records only go back because writing was invinted in 6000bce .. therefore, the records can't go back anyfarther, which is actually a problem with the bible, bc the bible is like the game telephone first of all these were accounts of events that def. happened before 6000 however they were not recorded until... 2000 so these stories just get passed down and passed down in greco greek ( aka street greek like what we talk to our friends) and then centuries later they are translated into an english version that probably has translation errors in it...

Transitional Fossils . . . with good music!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4GdZOlPrX8

Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism 1-11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68ELbAY

Why do people laugh at creationists?
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AC3481305829426D

Evolutionary Biologist CHRISTIAN!!
http://www.youtube.com/user/DonExodus2

The Universe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg1fs6vp9Ok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMQk6MveZOE

The Origin of Life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozbFerzjkz4

The Earth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN8XXaDrK4A

The Age of our World made easy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5369-OobM4

Natural selection made easy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_RXX7pntr8

Evolution made easy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w57_P9DZJ4

Human evolution specifically . . . oh yea made easy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCayG4IIOEQ

Human Ancestry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8edyoZFW-Lg

The scientific method and why we are not wrong . . . maybe we can be more right . . . but wrong it isn't
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcavPAFiG14

And of course the Finale is debunking your junk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7IT81h200


Evolution is FACT. Accepting it seems difficult for some folks.

dont care


http://www.boobtube.comeon/user/whoGAS1

and if you don't care then hell no sweat dont care it dont confront me none lol, or say to your self . . self I wonder about the facts in these videos . . . well there are references made . . . take a pen and paper and write them down and do your homework . . . they are not only accurate, but what 99% of the worlds scientists believe!

Bottom line I have nothing what so ever to prove to you, you are the one trying to support some other not peer reviewed highly suspect "theory" lol.

Thanks,

sorry BBC, i'm joking, my humor. but really i have read alot on this in the past i really could care less who's right, makes no never mind to me.

prove it

>>>>> IT <<<<<< is a very hard thing to prove and i wont go in to detail to time consuming - have better things to do.

wouldee watch the vids, the proof is not something that can be easily written, the vids actually do a great job of showing all the steps it took to grasp the magnitude, and concept of the amazing theory of evolution.

The massive library of evolutionary peer review research would be insane to try to read through for a lay person.

These videos do a great service to us in our grasping the amazing concepts.

I watch a lot of stuff.

read too.

I am up to speed.

where I land is known to me.

I get a kick out of how some land on an issue and do not realize how contingent each subsequent investigation within that issue can be affecting the conclusions drawn, whatever it is.

kinda like hubris.

I know you know what I mean.

I listened to a preacher once, oops, (sarcasm for somebody's sake that might be reading this over bushi's shoulder) , speaking on a scripture and he imported meaning into it based on ignorance of Judaic thought and discourse, ignorance of the words translated into something he drew at straws on, and blushed for him. I was embarrassed just to listen to him. he hadn't studied it all.

And a thought occured to me. Jews, ever learning, ever careful, ever wholesome, will study and do and understand the beauty of their native tongue and do know when and when not to read something as literal or figurative, but the plurality of the reading is second nature to them. Life and its myriad lessons is second nature to any that has had a few bumps and scrapes along the way, and the Jew, in the Hebrew tongue can see what none can see (but they) in their tongue of the depths and riches of their heritage and the beauty hidden from the 'gentile' in plain sight, as they read from thier scriptural truthes.

That led to another thought, oops, that is clear to me (in light of this preachers ignporance) in displaying how utterly ignorant Christinas can be in teaching from the Old Testament with comparisons to the New testament and completely miss the point, not just for themselves, but for the congregation, and the world at large, and even the jew, who would listen and ponder ans never say a word.


It is a healthy endeavor to learn, but it is also healthy to realize that assumptions abound and that information is bandied about very loosely.

I have studied much.

I look for news that will overcome my conclusions, but at the end of the day, I know what I know and I know that there is a limit to what science can determine.

The whole of it all is very interesting.

Especially continental drift.

I live in California.

I have travelled the whole of the wets from north to south and to the Rockies. I have stumbled upon pictoral hyrogypjhics and and Ogum writings.

I have seen petroglyphs and have learned how to read them as maps.

I have lived along the John Muir trail in Summertime.

I have found artifacts that I left alone.

All of it I will not reveal, as it is the unwriiten code of those that find them to be quiet, so they do not get trashed.

I wish I broiught that meteor home that I found one year. It was very dense and veery heavy for its size and I did not know what it is. I do now. It would fetch a lot of money. LOL

The whole thing is amazing.

Where I grew up, we chased sheep on our bikes in the rooling hills until the scrapers came to make a neighboorhood out of the fields, and everywhere are fossils. everywhere.


We didn't care. no one did. There were too many to even give it a second thought. MOstly sea creatures and shells, but some bones too.

I see the way the land has heaved in the Pacific Northwest, and through the layers and how they mix and how they do not always reflect the same equilibrium displayed in the layers and I see a catastrophic event occuring. The whole west coast is one huge massive tumbling rolling twisting turning of the layers and the natural strata that was once much flatter.

Fossils are everywhere here.

but one thing is clear to me.

It looks so very sudden.

I have no idea why.

That is not the view of science, but my eyes see that.

I do not know what that means. It is not my life's work. far from it.

But it is all very interesting to me.

The Grand Canyon is freaky.
the trinity alps are breathtaking.

The Mrble Mountain wilderness is too beautiful.

The redwoods are do huge. and seem never to die given their own will and opportunity to keep growing.

When I look in the faces of wild animals and they look back in peace, I see God moving in their eyes.
\
I seee God at owrk in the violence of turnoing the earth on its side in what appears to be an instant.

When I see rolling hills here in the winter time "bowl out" (geological term) I see that they do so often and I know what to look for elsewhere and see that "bowling" on top oif "bowling" and conmclude, as throiugh it all, that everything is very very recent.

It is still fresh and settling into the aftermath of that one cataclysmic event.

being in construction and dealing with geo technical engineers and soils engineers and learning and building to overcome the forces imposed on the earth hydraulically has taught me much, and they will say, those engineers., that they wish they knew too. Some agree with my take to some degree and say others see that to, but it isn't an acceptable observation, and for legitimate reasons according to what they share, but still, I see the reath still accomodating this events deliverance of the present terrain and see it settling in here in California.

Recent, very recent.

I know the Living Word and have seen the Word come (not in words) but in deed and deliver instantaneous intervention, but that is too spooky for people, event hose affected by it. LOL

as you say, there is too much to take in.

That is the problem too.

too much to sift.

See the planet, bushi.

get out in the wild and see it beofre it is gone entirely.

The wonder of it all is enlightening.

I have watched nature shrink back at an incredible rate west of the Rockies, in my lifetime.

I have witnessed the loss of much of the flora and fauna.

I have witnessed the destruction to the natural habitat from many causes, natural disaster and man made strafing, and through it all, I have seen that it is very fragile and very tender and very new.
It is not that old and it does not renew completely.

Especially the Oak groves here. very fragile.

It is all very fresh.

It is not as old as we are being told.

Not this present garden.

And it really doesn't matter anyway.

JB

I really enjoyed your post wouldee. Reminds me of sitting in my canoe down a winding water way (more like an oversized gator trail) with life everywhere around me. The sound of nature everywhere. Watching the world from the reflection of the brackish water.

Listening to the birds communicate to each other about this new intruder . . . to sit quite . . . undisturbed . . . and wait until the birds grow tired, or perhaps forget that I may be a danger, but nevertheless they forget there calls of alarm and begin there routine calls, and start to go about there business as usual.

To watch the baby gators pop up from the water a few feet from the canoe, and the mother waiting back in the reeds watching . . . silently. To feel all the life around you and know that it is ancient and wonderful. But I certainly didn't come to the same conclusion as you.

I enjoy looking even deeper, past the exterior, into the cells that make up the eye of the gator that stares at me, deeper into the atoms that hold together through the force of electromagnetism.

To imagine how those very atoms came to be born within a star much bigger then our sun, in fact it would have been a star MUCH bigger . . . one that ended its life long before ours could even have the material to start the process . . .

When I hear the sound of the birds I envision the wonderful nature of atoms all moving lazily and then from the force of vibration as the birds vocalization sends the atoms of the air bouncing into the next group and next group and next group, a menagerie of collisions like a mega game of pool . . or a ripple on the pond that is our atmosphere. Until the vibration reaches me ear. I think on how the components of the air where also cooked up in a star some place in the very distant past.

I usually look skyward at that movement and envision all of the cosmological bodies shooting away from each other at vast speeds, but my mind winds back the clock and shows me that each of them had once been closer . . . and closer . . . and closer together, time progression allows us to see that at one time all matter had been existing in a smaller and smaller spacetime.

Then I envision how the very fabric of our spacetime must turn in on itself as the gravitation distorts the fabric.

When I get home I crack open a couple physics books and reread the sections where it shows the mathematical equations that describe the twisting of spacetime when under the forces of a black hole, to envision all spacetime to slow down to a stop at the very edge of the center of the black hole. Until all moments of past and present and future all merge into one.

At that moment you would be experiencing all time as one moment. At that moment you could know what it would be to see all of the universe unfold at once outside of time.

It always makes me giggle to remember that moving through space slows our movement through time. It always makes me laugh when I read the probability of quantum tunneling through my wall. Yet to know that it is possible sobers my laughter.

Darwinism Proven False

Around 2300 A.D. (also known as the 146th episode, Season 6, by Federation date) Captain Jean Luc Picard discovered that all humanoid life forms were created when a single proto-humanoid species dispersed their genes throughout the quadrant. Picard seemed to have suggested that all life came from Intelligent Design and not Evolution because the proto-humanoid species, called Thetans, were lead to various planets by Xenu and then carried off by spaceships that looked like DC8's but without the propellers, and placed on the top of volcanoes and nuclear bombs went off that murdered the Thetans but sent their spirits free. That on an archaeology find he happened to uncover a book called Dianetics and he read it, and it showed him the truth. Picard went on to say that he didn't believe in psychiatry either, and refused to take his medication. He professed his love for Dr. Beverly Crusher by jumping up and down on Deanna Troi's couch. This of course is considered normal behavior for 24th century Star Ship Captains, as Captain James T. Kirk used to do it all of the time. Of course there were critics who asked Picard questions, but Picard snapped back and said "You don't know the history of evolution or psychiatry, but I do." and then had his lawyers sue his critics for libel and slander. Proving once and for all that Darwin's works are bunk. This, of course, happened before they discovered The Borg, and Captain Picard was converted to Borgology later, but lucky for him Tom Cruise used his super powers to free him from The Borg and convert him back to Scientology.

This particularly enraged Darwin the Romulans, the Cardassians, and Herr Hitler, who all considered themselves to be superior species. They consoled themselves in various ways. Darwin applied eugenics and neutered some Jews, Hitler gassed them, the Romulans banged up some Klingons, and the Cardassians polished their scales. They all felt much better.

Bushi.

you got me beat in that.

I am not as religious as you are.

I am not feeding myself with what is around me intentionally to try and figure out the why of it.

I just walk with God and marvel at his provision and know that the garden is in capable hands.

I have more time on my hands to just simply walk with God.

No hubris needed.

Thats really funny because I am an agnostic Atheist Buddhist.

I say 4.5 Billions years for earth.

I say 13-15 Billion years for our slice of what we call our universe. . .

I say . . . indeed.

Touching, thoughtful, strung together well. I'm glad I read it.

wouldee say....


earth is the name for the planet as given in Genesis 1 and was here already. gee, imagine that.

first thing said in just 10 verses, and it was here before God started with this present garden and that is not in dispute.

hubris?

and the vast debris as the building blocks for civilization were too, apparently.

Imagine that. Genesis 1 says they were "let" for use as lighting and measurement of time and season for man to come. gee, imagine that.

No hubris there either.

man knew this consciously 6000 years ago according to Moses' writings and Moses wrote the account approx. 3700 years ago before science figured that out. And prior to Moses' account, I find nothing that supercedes his understanding in the written record up to that date by man, and definitely nothing like the recent imaginations of man conjecturing otherwise, ever since.

gee, imagine that.


But nowhere did this scientific genius declare that man evolved from anything, or that this present garden that man is 'subduing' to himself was here until God spoke it into existence.


On one thing we agree, that the planet and the celestial bodies preceded man and this creation of God which is man's habitat and environment.

Where we disagree is on which is to be believed; Moses account as known from God, or man's account from conjecture and hypothesis that dead end in inconvenient rabbit holes of the imagination.

Hubris?

I vote for the scientific community and their revisionism of history as hubris, and all of those that follow such conjectural delusions, concerning the origins of man.

But then, you knew I would say all that, didn't you?

Its so hard to really reply to that wouldee. . . . its just that bad, that if I really go there id feel bad. So im gunn try my best to follow my moms advice and not say anything at all about some posts hehe.