God does....because each and every time.....I have said prove it about evolution....no one has......And I have given plenty to back up the bible historically.........

Yeah you are a riot. I just cant tell when you are serious or not is the problem.

Ok so your going to have me dig up my notes again.....fair enough....I will do it........And you once again are very wrong...and have been listening to those aliens for way to long love.

Deb, what do you want us to prove to you exactly? Have you ever been to a museum of natural history? Even as a child on a school field trip? Have you ever seen the fossil remains or reproductions of them? Do you just throw all of that out of the door as "science joking around"?

Okay show me the proof there was an Adam and Eve if you will. You shouldn’t need the bible either because science doesn’t require the bible to reach any conclusions. Science also doesn’t rely on faith. They tend to use the Earth to provide them with their evidence through archeological digs and excavations of sites and early civilizations of homo sapiens.

Actually there are 613 original commandments.....for which I course I have posted.....but no one seems to see these posts....or the posts by myself and Eljay and Woudee ansering your lev questions........

Now let's take krisma's 10 commandments....

Let's start with the first three:

I AM THE LORD THY GOD
THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME

THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN


THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH

First off no where in any bible does it say strange gods before me.

Right off the bat the first three are pure bull****. Sabbath day? Lord's name? strange gods? Spooky language! Designed to scare and control primitive people. In no way does superstitious nonsense like this apply to the lives of intelligent civilized humans in the 21st century. So now we're down to 7. Next:

Debbie's answer: Scary to you......why because your guilty or what? Not scary to me in the least....

HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER

Obedience, respect for authority. Just another name for controlling people. The truth is that obedience and respect shouldn't be automatic. They should be earned and based on the parent's performance. Some parents deserve respect, but most of them don't, period. You're down to six.

Debbie's answer:

Oh my goodness......you don't earn respect from a parent when you a child....It just is......And I disagree here also.....In a new relationship or friendship...it should be automatic until given a reason not to have respect......and this tells me a lot abouts you.

Now in the interest of logic, something religion is very uncomfortable with, we're going to jump around the list a little bit.

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS

Stealing and lying. Well actually, these two both prohibit the same kind of behavior- dishonesty. So you don't really need two you combine them and call the commandment "thou shalt not be dishonest". And suddenly you're down to 5.

Debbie's answer: well again you are wrong one is against things and the other against a person......


And as long as we're combining I have two others that belong together:

THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTRY

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE

Once again, these two prohibit the same type of behavior. In this case it is marital infidelity. The difference is- coveting takes place in the mind. But I don't think you should outlaw fantasizing about someone else's wife because what is a guy gonna think about when he's waxing his carrot? But, marital fidelity is a good idea so we're gonna keep this one and call it "thou shalt not be unfaithful". And suddenly we're down to four.

Debbie's answer:

so pathetic doesn't deserve an answer.

But when you think about it, honesty and fidelity are really part of the same overall value so, in truth, you could combine the two honesty commandments with the two fidelity commandments and give them simpler language, positive language instead of negative language and call the whole thing "thou shalt always be honest and faithful" and we're down to 3.

Debbie's answer:

And again it was not written by you krisma no matter how much you think you have all the answers.....and please take the original 613 commandments and make fun.....tisk tisk.

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR"S GOODS

This one is just plain ****in' stupid. Coveting your neighbor's goods is what keeps the economy going! Your neighbor gets a vibrator that plays "o come o ye faithful", and you want one too! Coveting creates jobs, so leave it alone. You throw out coveting and you're down to 2 now- the big honesty and fidelity commandment and the one we haven't talked about yet:

THOU SHALT NOT KILL

Murder. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Kashmir, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed. So, with all of this in mind, I give you my revised list of the two commandments:

Thou shalt always be honest and faithful
to the provider of thy nookie.

&

Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course
they pray to a different invisible man than you.

Two is all you need; Moses could have carried them down the hill in his ****in' pocket. I wouldn't mind those folks in Alabama posting them on the courthouse wall, as long as they provided one additional commandment:

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.


Debbie's answer #11 Disrespect....and get it back ten-fold

It's simple krisma....you believe in evolution....and I am going to assume that you feel this is an on-going thing....so show me one animal in the last 200 years that this has happen to .........just one........

Prove Evolution:

I can see you sitting there with your arms crossed and your Bible in your lap asking people to prove something to you that you have no intention of even considering anyway.

It would be a waste of time to attempt to convince you of anything that is in opposition to your strongly and stubbornly held beliefs.

What do you tell people? You tell them to read the Bible. Well I won't ask you to prove anything to me. I will tell you "read something else beside the bible."

If you don't loosen up just a little bit, one little tiny chip can cause your castle of belief to turn to dust because it is so ridged and unmoving. You are forever in the defensive posture of a person who behind that facade is a vulnerable person clinging to what holds her together.

I hope it continues to work for you Feral because I do like you a lot.

JB

Of course I would.......if she shows me one animal that has completely changed into another one in the last 200 years she will have my full attention......She likes to say put your money where you mouth is.....so prove it......and see this is the best part.....you won't because it is the biggest farce that ever was.....you can not evolutionize from a tadpole, to a frog, to a monkey, to an ape, to a man.....no sir re bob.....but hey I am open.

See I don't have anything to prove....krisma does......or you or who ever believes in the theory of evolution.......Not me......And I adore you too.....and frankly after a year of same crap it's old.....I wish I had the capability on mingle to just pull up the threads where I have answered all this already at least a dozen times....


And again I will say to any of you.......

Please put out your beliefs.....I enjoy that.....but put mine down in any way shape or form....or call Christ just a man.....and you will get my hackles up each and every time....and not because I need to protect Christ....but for me it's a slap in my face as well as my Lords.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah LOL too funny...there goes those visuals again.

Deb that was written by George Carlin. He is a world famous comedian who died recently. I never claimed I wrote that. What are you nuts?? It was clearly stated that it was for "comic relief". So wait a minute, its okay for the Christians on thread to make all kinds of jokes, but if a skeptic posts something actually funny, it’s considered, rude, disrespectful and offensive? That’s laughable yet in keeping with character at least

LOL...does dinner count?

To heal my heart and drown my woe
Rain may fall and wind may blow
But there still be many miles to go
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain
And the stream that falls from hill to plain
Better than rain or rippling brook
Is a mug of beer inside this Took

What difference do it make in this throw down
when everyone proves or disaprove with a frown
So let us drop our swords and make peace
and not argue for we are all the same please

May we believe what we will and keep it at that
eat many cakes, cookies, and muffins and get fat
Enjoy the time that is given to you
because there are many things we could do
then sit at a computer preaching and teaching
for example feasting with a love one and speaking

the good times are here to stay
so make love today okay!

What lifestyle is that required to be adhered to? My lifestyle has changed according to my desires over the past 40 years (only 20+ of which I was a believer) I gave up my addictive lifestyle and criminal behavior because I determined that the consequesnces were not worth it - no because a book told me to. I find no relevance here.



I work in the theater - I must be continually cerative as my job requires it. If anything - the fact that I became a believer actually expanded my critical thinking - while not lessening my creative abilities what-so-ever. I find no relevance here - actually, I can come right out and say you are absolutely incorrect with this assumption.



Loosing out to WHAT opportunities? You state it, but your avoiding my question. I have not asked ANYONE to encase themselves in my belief sysem - I've merely asked them to stop assuming they think I know what I believe in, or that they assume I'm "missing out" on lifes pleasures. However - I will say with absolute certainly that I missed out on more of lifes opportunities before I was a believer than I have since.



This is nonsense. What basis do you have to make a foolish assumption such as this? How could what I believe possibly damage anything within your life that you are not merely doing to yourself?



The fact that I find the bible to be correct does not pass moral judgement on evolution. Marality has nothing to do with it - unless there is deception involved with the "archeological finds - and there is documented eveidence that there has.
This is discouraging - for it does nothing to aid to htose scientists who's studies and discoveries are legitimate and above board. However - why you think I would find that there has not been serious embellishment to "scientific" documentation that parallels the embellishments that you feel exists in the bible are a puzzlement to me. There is no more evidence for the claims of Darwinian evolution than there is to creation - either must be believed through faith. However - micro evolution is overwhelmingly proved and is not preceeded by a premise of Darwanism OR Creation, as micro evolution would occur in either belief system.



You ask two different questions here - I will deal with the first. There are no restrictions to researching evolutionary theory - other than you MUST deny the flood if you wish to age anything previous to it. This is a premise you are forced to accept. Therefore, every archeological discovery that can be explained by such an occurance - must be explained away. That's pretty limiting if you ask me.

as to the second part. Our chldren have no choice but to accept evolution as a theory - the ACLU has seen to that, and if for some reason, they might be inclined to think God does exist - they are forced to abandon that idea for fear of being held hostage by a grade, forever being forced to accept what they are told, or else abandon any hopre of fullfilling their educational pursuits. Who's limiting who here?
Have you ever given that any thought? I was fortunate enough to have been born at a time when I was not held hostage to have to believe in
Darwinian evolution as an absolute. I was able to think for myself. How I feel great concern for the children of today who have had their choices taken away from them.



Yes! Because they are not offered the chance to examine this for themselves. In some schools in this country - you will be suspended if you carry your bible around school, and explelled if you discuss the possibility of the bible being true with other students. Teachers are not even allowed to "suggest" the idea of intelligent design as a viable option. That is thought and mind control far beyond anything that was ever introduced in the school system since the Christians introduced the concept of schools way back when. Forgot that did you? You don't think the concept of and development of schools and universities in this country was the creation of non-christians do you? But that is a bit off topic.



You should speak for yourself here Redy - this is something that you may believe - but science has fallen short of explaining away miracles.



What is a "fundamentalist"? If you are referingto what I've seen described here on these forums - I would have to say no - because the term has a fluctuating meaning here.

If by "dogma" you mean scripture - it doesn't limit me in any way. There are times it probably should - I'm crtainly not perfect, when I "sin" as it were, I suffer the consequences like everyone else does. Else - like I said, my life is uneffected.

I examine "scientific evidence" through the logic that supports it. If the premises are unacceptable - I dismiss it. The bible has nothing to do with it. I have found that there are a number of studies and conclusions made using control groups that do not represent a fair
representation of the group they are claiming statistic revelance to. Other times I find that a control group of less than 1 per cent of the population is just not an adequate representation of anything.

I don't make anyone believe anything. My belief structure has nothing to do with that. I appeal to logic and common sense if I enter into a discussion - and prefer that the conclusions be made by the person responsible for their decision.

I support any war effort that abates genocide of a religious faction. I don't think we should stand idly by while dictators in the world plan the extermination of a race based on their religious belief. Much like the one in Iraq had devoted his life doing.

Now - are you going to answer my question. What am I missing in my life because I'm a believer?

OK HERE YA GO......DID THIS ABOUT 9 MONTHS AGO...


Creationlists have offered for more than 15 years a 1/4 million dollars to anyone who has real scientific evidence for evolution. There has been no claim of the money because there is no evidence. I understand that people believe in it, but that does not make it science. I am hoping to strengthen you faith in the Word of God and build your confidence in the Creator God, to help you stand up to the evolution bullies who try to intimidate you and deny your trust in God. You cannot buy into the lie that evolution had anything to do with your existence, or the lie that claims that God kick started evolution and then took a huge vacation only to come around to find human beings polluting His planet. You know, there are Christian Scientist claiming to be evolutionist as well. This angers me,, but not as much as the canvoluted-belief angers the atheists. Pultzer Prize winning sociobiologist Edward Wilson barks "humankind evolved by Darwinian, natural selection, genetic chance and environmental necessity, not God, made the species." Another leading evolutionist, and one time ordained priest, Francisco Ayala, said in a recent interview, Darwin’s "greatest accomplishment was to show that: living beings can be explained as the result of a natural process, natural selection, without any need to resort to a Creator or other external agent. In essence, he attempted to nullify the scriptures and the writings of Moses, King David, the Apostles John, & Paul. Paul told Colossians that God created all things in heaven and earth visible and invisible, all things were created by Him and for Him.

There are two ways to look at this world. That is called your world-view. If you follow Darwinian thinking, I wold like to change your world view. How do you view this world? Some people look at the world from this direction (up) Some look at it the other way (down) The way you view the world is how you answer the Four Great Questions of life. There are 4 fundamental question regarding life that every single religion on earth tries to answer. The way you answer those questions is totally determined by your world-view. Some people look at the world and say “It’s amazing – a big bang made this world from nothing! “That is a humanist world-view based on the theory of evolution. Other people look at the world and say, “It’s is incredibly designed. There must be an intelligent designer! That is the creationist world- view based on creation by God. And those two world-views are at war with each other. I tell you straight out- “Somebody is wrong!” I don’t have a problem showing the evolutionist that he is wrong even though he might not accept it.

If the evolution theory were true, how would you answer the Great Questions of Life? Who am I? What am I worth? Well if evolution is true you are nothing important. You are just a piece of protoplasm that washed up on the beach. You are not worth a thing. Actually, you are part of the problem because you are one of the poluters of the environment. Just breathing you and contributing to the global warming crisis. You are creating green house gases and taking us back before the ice age. Environmentalist want you gone. The more humans gone the happier the environment. And that is normal thinking if the evolution theory is true.

Where did I come from? Well if evolution is true, you came from a cosmic burb about 20 billion years ago. Why am I here? What is the purpose of life? Well if evolution is true, there is not purpose to life; you might as well have loads of fun, if it feels good, go ahead and do it. There would be no divine authority to watch over you and keep you accountable. Where am I going when I die? Well, if evolution is true, you are going to the grave to be recycled into a worm or into a plant. You see, the Bible says, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Gen 1:1) So if that is true, that puts a whole different set of answers to those questions. That means we better try to figure out who God is, and find out what He wants and do what He says. Because he created this place, which means He owns it, which means He makes the rules. We better find out what He wants while we are alive. And if you are not obeying His rules, you may be in trouble on of these days. Satan doesn’t like this idea that God created this earth. So he came to Eve in the Garden of Eden. The first thing he said to the woman was, “has God really said.” He is trying to raise doubts about God’s world. Satan always tries to raise doubts and that is one of the reasons we have confusion over Bible versions. Which version can we trust; which versions are inaccurate?

I will ascend about the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the most high. You see, satan wants to be God. But the job is not available and he is all upset that he can not be God, so he lied to Eve and told her she could be like God. Satan loathes us almost as much as he hates God because we are made in God’s image. That is why he went after Even and she fell for it because it sounded to good. “Wow I get to be God! Hitler was used by satan. Let me share a quote from him. “If you tell a lie long enough, loud enough, and often enough the people will believe it.”

The second thing he said to Even “You will not really die if you eat the fruit.” Basically, he is calling God a liar. And the third thing he said to the woman is the thing I am most interested in for this message. He said, “Eve if you eat from that tree you will be like God.” Right there is where the whole idea of evolution got started. If didn’t start with Darwin, it started with satan and the Garden of Eden.

Several religions teach that you will become like God when you die. Even key religious leaders believe we are more than God’s created beings. “Gods reason for creating Adam was the desire to reproduce himself. (Adam) was not a little like God. He as not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even Adam was as much like God as you can get, the same as Jesus. Adam in the Garden of Eden was God manifest in the flesh. You don’t have a God in you, you are one.” I don’t know that he was retracted that statement which is on tape. Kenneth Hagin said, “The believer is as much an incarnation as as Jesus of Nazareth. The believer is called Christ. That who we are; were Christ! No Kenneth, Jesus is the one and only true God, we are nothing like God and we couldn’t do His job. The job is taken. If you think you are Christ, try walking on water, someday. Lucifer is the one who wants to be God.


In this section I will talk about science. If you go to a large library, you will find many books about science. If you go to a large library, you will find Good science books. You will also find many, which have a little poison mixed in with the truths about nature and the universe. It is not the 98% good food I am against, it is the poison mixed in. I like to read about nature but I can’t always trust the books because to often facts are ignored to endorse an agenda.

I am not against science books just the ones that contain the poison. Let me read to you what is published in a 1st grade text book. “The earth has changed much since its formation 4.5 billion years ago. Some life on earth has adapted to these changes.” Come on, is the earth 4.5 billion years old? Absolutely not! But if you tell that to a 1st grader, he/she is going to believe you. 1st graders believe everything you tell them. Dr. Stephen Meyer the outspoken creationist say buy the time a young adult figures out evolution is a lie, supported by nothing, they are humanists much of the time and could care less about faith in something else that could let them down. Atheists know, you keep poisoning the young mind until it believes whatever you say. 2nd grade science book read, “since it formation 4.5 billion years ago, there is organic evolution, Original life .

Life has to get started from non-living material, even today, nobody has said how that could happen. Then we are told about macro-evolution that is where an animal changes to a different kind of animal. Has anyone here ever witnessed the birth of an animal? Even human? Did the animal resemble its mother’s kind? No one has ever seen a dog produce anything but dogs. Dogs are probably the animal more people pay attention too then any other animal, even if the dog, wolf, coyote had a common ancestor every 1st grader knows they are the same kind of animal. The bible says the animals are going to bring forth after their KIND. The dog the wold are the same kind of animal but there are different species.

Darwin tried to fool everybody in his book Origin of Species by changing the work KIND to Species. Then lastly, we are encouraged to believe in micro-evolution. This is changes with the KINDS. Animals can produce a whole variety of offspring, long hair, short hair, long legged, short legged, that happens. But the first five are purely religious. Cosmic evolution, chemical evolution, stellar and planetary evolution, organic evolution, macro evolution, are all religion not science. We never have observed any of those in action. So to be a good witness for the Creator and stand firm in a debate, define first what you are debating as far as these evolution theories go? You will find that evolutionist give examples of # 6 only, micro evolution. Changes with the dog family. Problem is the debater usually implies micro-evolution is evidence for the other 5. It is not evidence.

The teachers are taught to stress the earth is billions of years old, make sure the kids believe this since the intention is that if you have enough time anything can happen. But if these haven’t happened in all the years man has been observing creation why should anyone believe it is going to happen tomorrow.

Don’t you think in science class, we should be teaching science. The results, of clear observations. Things we can observe and test and study and demonstrate. Things like the 1st law of thermodynamics.

The scientific law, not theory, tells us “Matter cannot be created or destroyed.” If matter cannot be created or destroyed then how did the world get here? “Were here, you know” So that leaves on 2 choices. 1) Somebody made the world or 2) The world made itself. You can believe the Bible, which says God made the world with his hands, or can believe the humanists who say the world created itself.

Humanists regard the universe as “self-existing and not created.” This quote is from the Humanist Manifesto Tenet#1. Well, if the world made itself how could this happen? The devil thought for along time and finally he came up with the big bang theory. It is rather obsurd what is published today and being taught to our kids.

“Earth has changed.” In addition to (the planets) physical changes, life too, has evolved on earth.” The word evolved is a very tricky word. There are 6 meanings to the word and only one meaning is scientific. When someone speaks to you regarding evolution ask them what they mean? For some speak of cosmic evolution: The origin of time, space and matter. Also referred to as the Big Bang. Some believe it, I don’t. Then there is chemical evolution: The origin of higher elements from hydrogen the big band was to produce hydrogen and some helium, but how did we get the other 105 elements? Did they evolve? Are we to believe uranium evolved from hydrogen?

The 3rd theory is stellar and planetary evolution: The origin of stars and planets. How did the star form? No one has even seen a star form. Scientists don’t even have a clue how a star could form. There are not even good theories on how a star could form. What happens all the time is vona and supernova, and that is when a star explodes. Man is constantly looking into the heavens and we see the stars exploding, not forming. Did you know that there are enough stars that every person on earth could claim 1 trillion stars for their own. Those are the ones we know about, thanks to the Hubble Telescope and fast computers. (psalm 147) tells us the “Lord determines the number of the stars and calls each by name. Great is our Lord and mighty in power; His understanding has no limit.” Wow he named them all, has anyone named 11 trillion?

Fourthly there is organic evolution: the origin of life. Life had to get started from non-living material. Even today, nobody has a clue how that could happen. Then are are told


about macro-evolution. That is where an animal changes to different kinds of animals. Nobody has ever seen a dog produce anything but dogs.

The Pretae Hall General Science book say “about 18 to 20 billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into one very dense, very hot region that may have been smaller then a period on this page. For some unknown reason the region exploded. This explosion called the Big Bang goes on to say this is how the galaxies formed in the universe. By the way universe is form from 2 latin words uni-means single verse- means spoken sentence. Did you know we live in a single spoken sentence? “God said let there be.” But that is so different from the public school science book which says 18 to 20 billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into a dot on this page. What? That is one crowded dot. Do you see this planet squished into the tip of your pen? That isn’t the end of it. EarthScience text book say after many billions of years, all the matter and energy will once again be packed into a small area. This area may be no longer then the period at the end of this sentence. Then another big bang will occur. Can you believe they cut down a tree to print that? Where’s Al Gore when you need him.

Honestly if you believe that then what is the use of living anyway if were just going to explode. Those words are not from the God that loves you, but your enemy who hates you, who says if your are told lies over and over you will believe them.

This text book author was brilliant, he says, “Nothing really means nothing.” He said not only would mass and energy disappear, but also space and time. However, physicists theorize that from the state of nothingness the universe began. The universe began in a gigantic explosion. What? He is telling us that one day nothing exploded and here we are. Discover Magazine a few years ago wrote, “The universe burst into something from absolutely nothing, zero, nada. And as it got bigger, it became filled with even more stuff that came from absolutely nothing /nowhere. How is that possible? Ask Alan Guth. His theory of inflation helps explain everything! He went on to say in Scientific American, “We all came from a dot and a dot came from nothing, they call that science.

Who messed up this post?




You are missing the point.

Joking.

Only you can answer that question. If you feel your life is fulfilled and complete, then you are missing nothing that you need.

JB

Deb, I just don’t know how to simplify this anymore for you. Man DID NOT evolve from apes. It also did not take a mere 200 years for this to occur. If you want to at least understand the concept of evolution you have to let go of the "shake and bake" bible premise of man being created in that short of a time span. It does not mean you need to give up your beliefs. No. I’m asking you to suspend it momentarily and actually listen to what I and others are trying to explain to you okay? If you can do this, we will happily listen to your creationism theory okay? Deal? Otherwise this is just going in circles.

i didn't do it this time it was >>QS<<

Why 200 years? Are you limiting yourself because you believe that the world is only 6000 years old?

I will give you one that changes.

A grub into a butter fly.
A tadpole into a toad.
A bird into my cat. (After she eats it. LOL)

JB

Deb if you think the world is only 6000 years old, then NOTHING we attempt to explain to help you understand about human evolution will make sense. The Homo genus diverged from the australopithecines about 2 million years ago so clearly this process does not happen instantaneously. Nothing arrived fully formed and ready to go. It was a long haul.