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| Topic: Throw down - part 2 | |
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1 Adam [a] lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth [c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech. Two things strike me here, first god had to make clothes for Adam and Eve but, secondly, their first generation child “Cain” was building a city. We went from cave man like knowledge of the life on this planet to a child building a city for his brothers and sisters and children. Debbie's answer: not sure of your point here........
Ok let me try explain. Adam and Eve are expelled from Eden with the knowledge of how to make animal skin clothes. They must learn to fend for themselves in a hostile environment unlike anything they have encountered. On top of that, they much populate the world. In a matter of only some years the son of this couple is building a city. Not finding a series of caves to dwell in, but building a city. Where are all the people who are going to inhabit the city and, exactly, how does one go about BUILDING a city? Truly, in order for anyone to say they have a complete understanding of biblical scripture, they must be able to explain such things or how can any of their explanations be noteworthy? My previous quote: Ok, so – if Adam and Eve gave birth to children capable of building cities and farming the land, who lived in all the caves and painted all the pictures on the walls and left behind trails of primitive nomadic lifestyles?
Feral says Debbie is no laughing sorry I think your missing the point Redy.......because of the sin....They were living with the generational curses placed on them by God....Read above what God says to Adam and Eve.
I was not attempting to be funny, I was questioning your understanding of knowledge as it is opposed to your beliefs here. I don’t understand what a generational curse has to do with the son of Adam building a city? Please respond! |
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25 Adam lay with his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him." 26 Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh. At that time men began to call on [j] the name of the LORD. Debbie's answers again......Remember because of what adam and eve did the family had a generational curse for the disobedience to God.
Feral then wrote: So because of the fall of man a whole lot of people do not know of God.
Redy responded Feral, you quote is in no way explained by ANYTHING you have written. First of all, god is portrayed as interacting on several occasions with humans. Why would these people NOT tell their own children that they were in touch with the creator. Where in the world do you see that man became ignorant of god?
Debbie's Answer: Again they were not favorable in God's eyes Adam and Eve and all that came for generations until Enosh.......And then once again they looked upon God....I need to do basic bible study with you people.
I’ll ask you again: The scriptures show that god has interacted with (SPOKEN WITH), some of , at least two or three generations, including Adam and Eve. Why would all the others be unversed in knowledge of god? Further, why would god allow his creations, for so many generations, not only forget him but create other gods, goddesses and superstitions in It’s place? |
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MOVING ON
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
Redy wrote: Again, what does god have to be jealous of. And here we see another quality that we, as humans, recognize as “bad” and that quality is “hate”. So who taught who, to hate?
Debbie's answer: Who said hate......God was a jealous God for worshiping any other.....this is God......why would he not be like that if someone is so stubborn to have "THEIR" way and worship when they knew God's greatest sin to worship any other God....or false idol...
First of all it was YOUR quote. “punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who HATE me. Yep the word hate is definitely there and it says HATE ME and we all know who me signifies, it wasn’t the actual writer of the scripture it was who was supposed to be speaking. So Deb, if god is the creator of EVERTHING what was there to HATE before god created ANYTHING? Feral says: This is the first commandment for good reason. Now just because it doesn't fit your mold oh well redy get over it...So tell me Redy who was showing hate the people for their disobedience to God....or God.....and be very very careful of your answer here.
Your question is “who was showing hate”. In the verse it was the people hating god but from whom did the people LEARN to hate? There is nothing that god did not create, and man created as the perfection of the physical in god’s image must have included hate – so where did it come from? |
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Redy wrote:
If I tell you Feral that you must teach your children how to fly with faith alone then tell you that if you defy me I will punish all your lineage to the third and fouth generations as those who hate me – what incentive have I given you to follow my words?
Feral replied: My children both come to Christ of their own free will.....And let me make something perfectly clear.....If God told me something directly like he did Adam and Eve....you can bet that I would never never disobey.....so who really is to blame.....God for being God....or them for not listening....
Deb, are you better than the disciples in whom you believe? Did not even they deny Jesus as he said they would? I know I’m not a believer but I also know that my mother is. I have to tell you that if I thought for one minute that my mother would betray me, in any earthly way, for her belief in god, I would suffer immense heartache. It’s just my opinion but my heart cries out to any child who can not, and does not FEEL the most unconditional love in the flesh as should exist between mother and child. I have NO DOUBT nor have I ever believed for one second that my mother would deny god to protect me. That, is a security that every child needs and a child can not get that from god, it can only come from another human being. I wonder how you would handle sitting on a jury to decide the innocence or guilt of a woman who has murdered her child or children, and claims it was to fulfill a godly request. How could you ever know, because YOU would yourself commit such an atrocity and what’s worse is that your children would know and understand where they stand in your love. Ok that was off topic but it begged to be reviewed, since you brought it up. |
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Redy said:
It makes no sense for any god who is powerful enough to be god to have feelings of hate or jealousy. In fact I see no need or reason at all for a god to have the human attributes of any emotion. Truth, knowledge, logic is all it should take for a god. To say otherwise is merely a WISH to have the most powerful being in the universe see YOU, notice YOU, hear YOU, love YOU, save YOU. In other words, it is ‘human’ fear that has given god emotions.
Debbie's answer: Well just because it makes no sense to you Redy just doesn't make it not so. But see sugar that is exactly the point God gave them everything and asked one thing.....which satan was able to squash...Now if that happen today with me no brainer I would not listen to anyone but God....and that is the whole point...How lucky were they to walk with him....to speak to him.....and no mater what disobey and pay.....THATS JUST HOW IT IS.
When something has no basis in logic I question it – that’s the difference between a truth born of research and a truth born of blind faith. The truth born of research can change as circumstances change, but a truth born of blind faith and backed by the rigid policy of dogmatic doctrine is unbendable and can only ever exist in the mind of the blind. If I disobey what do I pay? I say it’s worth your price because Deb – I would sleep and be done, while you would spend eternity without so many loved ones at your side. Perhaps then, you’ll be thankful that the price we paid was simply to go to sleep and not to suffer the loss as you will. |
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Deuteronomy 4:24
For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God. Joshua 24:19 Joshua said to the people, "You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins. Redy wrote: OK – “He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins”
Is that true or false? How can such a statement be made unless it is over the dying body(s) of someone? According to Christianity, the Christ redeems those who rebel and later repent? Debbie's Answer: That is Christ........this is God.....BIG BIG DIFFERENCE.....Because of Christ.....He took all that could possible be done...and through his Grace we are forgiven....But then mess with God....and ohhhhhhhhhhh Big Big mistake.....
So what you’re saying is PROVES the biggest inconsistency in the bible. It shows that god has changed the rules of his game and the LAW has INDEED become contradictory. Therefore the old Testament is not congruent with the New. Either the old Testament is still considered ‘the law’ or it is not. It can’t be, sometimes and not at others. If the law is the law, it was made so by god. Now if you say that god can change the law anytime and in any way It chooses to, then your god is unstable, his word is subject to change, and your belief is not on a firm foundation. If the law was one way for thousands of years and now it is different, than it is different because god changed Its’ mind. That makes every one of your beliefs subject to change before OR after you die. And for this you would sacrifice even your children. |
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Feral writes:
And it was not a matter of God changing the people.....He gives us free will....they have to seek him and follow him with all their heart, soul and mind.....Chance after chance they were given......did they listen nope.
And I must say to you likewise Chance after Chance YOU are given. You sin still, you have admitted it. You are no different than those whom you believe god condemns. Your imperfections are yours as a birthright and every generation born since the fall of Adam and Eve are cursed with those imperfections. You can sin and sin again and you think your tears asking for forgiveness are sugar coating pleas to an accepting god. Debbie's answer: this is truth Redy.....The only difference sweetie is that I can THROUGH CHRIST be forgiven.....
AND ARE YOU NEW.......IT IS WHAT IT IS REDY AND NO MATTER HOW YOU WANT IT TO FIT A MOLD OR PERCEPTION YOU HAVE....IT WILL NOT EVER EVER EVER CHANGE WHAT IS SO..... To get caught up in the dogma of an unchanging religion, is to deny yourself all the experiences that the gift of having this life has offered. It’s a matter of degrees, the deeper you go into the dark the more you MUST believe because you have wasted so much time already believing. The only way to get back any of the ‘wasted’ time, is to hope you are given eternity. Debbie's answer: You have to be joking I am truly laughing now......I have more in my life and blessings then you could even imagine.....And let me tell you something since your arrogance is just to much at this point...When you are facing God and the book of life is opened.....And all that you have done is put right their for the Father God.....I will be standing right their.....not judging....but saying, "I tried to tell you."
I don’t know Deb, something about your scenario just feels wrong. Maybe it’s just the fact that I despise the idea that anyone could believe in a god who would be standing in judgment, over the most personal of information, of an individual only to have on-lookers shaking their head, with their arms folded in front of them saying in gods ear, "I tried to tell you." It has the same ring in my bones as hearing someone say “what I do, I do for the glory of god” as they stand in front of an audience receiving some kind of “personal” award, saying “I praise god for this award” There is no amusement in such thoughts, they are sad, and one cannot help but be moved to pity at times. But I’m tired, maybe tomorrow I’ll test you again. In fact, you might want to consider that whole idea about being tested. You never know where or when god will be placing a test in your path. Perhaps I proved some of the testing. Just remember your heart as you take these tests, so you can respond appropriately to your god as he judges you in front of other shaking their head with their arms folded in front of them. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Mon 08/11/08 02:27 AM
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I don’t know Deb, something about your scenario just feels wrong. Maybe it’s just the fact that I despise the idea that anyone could believe in a god who would be standing in judgment, over the most personal of information, of an individual only to have on-lookers shaking their head, with their arms folded in front of them saying in gods ear, "I tried to tell you." It has the same ring in my bones as hearing someone say “what I do, I do for the glory of god” as they stand in front of an audience receiving some kind of “personal” award, saying “I praise god for this award”
There is no amusement in such thoughts, they are sad, and one cannot help but be moved to pity at times. Amen. Judging others in the name of Jesus has got to stop. It's the most dispicable act that mankind ever created. Please see my post on the first page of this thread: http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/154906 It's about the 9th post down on the first page. 
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 08/11/08 04:17 AM
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I do agree that is a bad idea to attempt to judge others based on whatever faith one might believe in or practice. What gives ANY Christian, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, Wiccan, Pagan, ANYONE the right to judge me or anyone else for that matter?
The Wiccans have a saying. It’s referred to as a rede in their teachings. These eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, an ye harm none, do what ye will. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 08/11/08 04:44 AM
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I hate to chime in here with reality . . . but a literal interpretation of genesis is counter to everything we have learned in the last 20 years with genetics. The human race did not pop out of nowhere. Im going to quote a source because I just woke up and dont want to spout bs. "human evolution encompasses the development of the genus Homo, but usually involves studying other hominids and hominines as well, such as Australopithecus. "Modern humans" are defined as the Homo sapiens species, of which the only extant subspecies - our own - is known as Homo sapiens sapiens. Homo sapiens idaltu (roughly translated as "elder wise human"), the other known subspecies, is now extinct.[6] Anatomically modern humans first appear in the fossil record in Africa about 130,000 years ago, although studies of molecular biology give evidence that the approximate time of divergence from the common ancestor of all modern human populations was 200,000 years ago.[7][8]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human Genesis is an interesting creation story . . the key here is story. Read other religions creation stories . . . all of the stories have things in common, and are all interesting, but accurate they are not. To be fair, I do believe that there are many modern Christians at this point who are kind of onboard with human evolution by this time. It does become difficult to battle these skeletal remains and decades of irrefutable scientific, linguistic and cultural study that have taken place. I wonder where the origins of language came from exactly? Hmm, let’s really think about that one for a moment shall we.  Women have babies, they carry babies, and they hold babies. They do what else with babies? I will give you a hint. Ga ga goo goo. And this of course in no way minimizes the male contribution as it relates specifically to the early stages of Homo sapien development. However the point being made here is another attempt at common sense and should hopefully be an appeal to reason. Men hunt. Now what is important when you are hunting and do not want to scare your prey away before you have a chance to make a kill? This does stand to reason.
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listen to yourselves pine away.LOL you guys are soft. suck it up will ya? you sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. are you guys all trust fund babies? LOL JB I can understand, she is on a different planet. but the rest of you have resally got some control issues and some serious deficits in the respect for authority dept. That good Dr Spock really screwed you all up. maybe its caffeine. LOL or sugar. LOL yeah, that's it. eat some vegetables for goodness sake. your bowel will love you for it. try a bran muffin in the morning. I sense a lot of constipation. LOl vegetables, yeah, that's it. they are at the other end of the store. they are the things not wrapped up in pretty boxes like christmas presents LOL bye, kids.           
LOL... fruity tooties ???? |
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There were other people on the earth when Adam and Eve were introduced to the breeding population. Have you ever heard of the wild mustang populations? They were ragged ugly horses until people introduced some fine breeding stallions to improve the current population. Now the wild mustangs are quite nice looking horses. That was the purpose of Adam and Eve. It was to upgrade the current primitive populations. (They were considered more like animals to the alien gods placing Adam and Eve with them.) But they were the humans that had been on the earth for a long time. They had no culture, and they lived in caves etc. The alien gods taught them how to farm, taught them about religion etc. Read all about this stuff in the Urantia book. It goes into a lot of detail about the genetic improvements they were introducing. Its interesting. JB The lines of genetics, and the fossil record show very clearly how we progressed, how and even a rough estimate of when we split off from our ancestor species. Genetics even show that we nearly became extinct and where down to a population of about 1000. If two individuals that could somehow breed with a separate species . . . and produce offspring and not be sterile . . . the genes would show us this. . . and they do not. Not to mention the very idea goes against the definition of speciation. A species is defined by its inability to successfully re-procreate and create off spring that are NOT sterile. A perfect example is a zebra breeding with a horse, the offspring is ALWAYS sterile, thus horse have departed from zebras significantly enough to be seperate species . . . . Redy, your AWESOME. Any person that can and is willing to read closely search out facts and incorporate those facts into there paradigm is truly worthy of respect. listen to yourselves pine away.LOL you guys are soft. suck it up will ya? you sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. are you guys all trust fund babies? LOL JB I can understand, she is on a different planet. but the rest of you have resally got some control issues and some serious deficits in the respect for authority dept. That good Dr Spock really screwed you all up. maybe its caffeine. LOL or sugar. LOL yeah, that's it. eat some vegetables for goodness sake. your bowel will love you for it. try a bran muffin in the morning. I sense a lot of constipation. LOl vegetables, yeah, that's it. they are at the other end of the store. they are the things not wrapped up in pretty boxes like christmas presents LOL bye, kids.
Speak for your self, I am a vegetarian, and haven't been healthier in my life. ok bushie. you have a bit of a head start. keep trying. you might make it out then. good luck. you can do it! 
LOL...Oh man! Too funny... 
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All her questions were answered when she originally asked them.....I answered a total of four times........ So true...no bothering answering the same questions over & over when they CLEARLY don't like the answers. Insanity is to keep doing the same thing over & over & trying to get a different result. LOL They won't get anything but the same answers from any of us...we have ALL taken turns to answer the same old questions...over & over again. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 08/11/08 05:01 AM
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Yes, but yet again, if we rebut your arguments, then you have a responsibility to argue our rebuttals. No name calling, no going nuts and behaving like children. Simply rebut.
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feralcatlady you assume much . . . There is no part of the Bible I have not read. You see and believe what you want. There are sooooo many Christians that DO NOT believe the same way you do. What sets you apart? If you say faith then that is a circular argument with no merit. How can you know the faith of others until you have walked in there shoes? It seems you have little desire to actually explore any of the ideas set forth by anyone else. That is called Egocentrism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentrism You say potAto...we say potOto... Unlike the rest of this restless fearful world, we will stick to what is tried & true. None of you insults will change that. Doesn't it just make you mad? LOL |
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These people who think they are "servants of God" and give really lame answers to questions that clearly show that they don't even grasp the true meaning of the issues really need to get a life. Running around acting like they speak the final word for God is truly disgusting. Arrogance is not humble. 
Moreoever, that whole mindset is compeltely against the tentets of Christianity. The actual religion states that only the Holy Spirit can speak for God. Nowhere does the religion suggest that Christains are to speak for Jesus, or for the Holy Scriptures. The very idea that people are so pompous to imply that they have the only correct interpretation of the Holy Scriptures is arrogance gone mad. It totally flies in the face of what that religion supposedly stood for at one time. It's no wonder that the religion is falling apart so rapidly. But that's a good thing, I'm sure that at its current rate of decay it's highly unlikely that it will even be recognized as a valid religion by the end of this millenium. I think we can all thank God for that.
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Quicksteper wrote: It's your choice to be "impressed" with anything you like redy. That's your "opinion" only.
MANY valid responses were given & you don't have the right to discredit what YOU certainly can't dispute. You don't speak for anyone else's experience. There were no valid responses that would satisfy the questions. If you saw them, why don’t you try to give better explanation of them, because apparently only you and Feral believe they exist. I think it burns people up what the Christian experience is all about because you all feel left out. That's your own unbelief by your choice only.
What happened to “You don't speak for anyone else's experience.” No I don’t but you certainly seem to. First you determine what other think (I think it burns people up) and then you tell them, well that’s just your choice. How many voices do YOU and Feral listen to in your little minds? Try accepting personal responsiblity like the rest of us did before you go around giving "opinions" like they are facts.
Would you like to show me where I have tried to pass off my opinion as fact? I’d like to have an opportunity to make my proof or may amends. But then your judgment of me is neither here NOR there NOR anywhere. Thank you very much!!!
I have to laugh at your "impressed???" "opinion" of a little girl who did nothing but make feeble attempts to put others down. That is laughable. Would you like to offer specifics? Otherwise this could be considered slander, you know. BTW...up until now I was giving you more credit than you deserve. I guess I was wrong. Too funny.
And it’s up to you which humans should be credit worthy? In whose eyes? How far do you take your duties as assessor and judgment maker, and exactly how much worth do you think your opinion has in the eyes of your redeemer? At least the great ‘UNWASHED’ seem to provide amusement for you. Enjoy our brilliance at work! “Why yes, I am a Rocket Scientist” Thank-you very much for noticing. Uh...Redy? If I wasn't a Christian I would see all the blather written by those like you, abra, JB et al as unsubstantiated garbage. Mindless nonsense not worthy of ANY consideration. I'm not talking about the attacks, insults, & gang ups you all do. Travel the universe in your mind all you want but stop decieving others with it. Smart people go with what is tried & true. 
Have a nice day. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 08/11/08 05:12 AM
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According to you, "smart people" just go along with mindless garbage based on faith alone.
So that leaves us dullards that rely on credible scientific logic, study, experimentation, trial and error, and conclusion. |
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Yes, but yet again, if we rebut your arguments, then you have a responsibility to argue our rebuttals. No name calling, no going nuts and behaving like children. Simply rebut. The rebuttal is this...we accept by faith what we have not experienced because of what we have experienced. We therefore KNOW that ALL of God's word is true. How many times do we have to repeat that? |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 08/11/08 05:18 AM
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So you are serious? That is your rebuttal to our arguments? Your belief is based on faith alone? Fine, have it your way I guess. I do not rely on faith exclusively. I want answers. Real answers. So do many others on forum. And if according to you, god is this real nice guy who created all of us, he would not feel threatened by any of us humans throwing a couple questions his way correct?
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