And I shall cast the first stone as I am without sin.

It's funny you should mention that because a similar thought went through my mind when I read the words of Jesus on that very issue.

What would have happened had I been there?

Well, Jesus would have said, "Let the man who is without sin cast the first stone"

Well, what would everyone have done? They would have all point to me right? They would say, "Get Abra, he's without sin".

Jesus would come over to me and say, "Is this true?"

I'd reply, "Yes Lord, it is true what they have spoken unto you".

Jesus would say, "Well then, you must cast the first stone".

I would reply, "But Lord, I don't throw stones at people and this is why I am without sin."

Jesus would say, "But didn't you read the part in the Bible where I told the pharisees they are disobeying their God for not stoning unruly children to death"

I would say, "Yes I did read that, but I thought it was demagoguery".

Jesus would say to me, "You are a very wise man Abra"

Then he'd turn to the crowd and say, "You see, sinless people don't throw stones, and they don't believe everything they read either. Now let the woman go and try to find some new reading materials. Get some books that don't ask you to be throwing stones at people. Try reading some stuff by Buddha. He always had good stuff to say."

Wrong according to who? (Right and wrong is a matter of opinion.) But the answer is, yes, according to me I have done things I consider to be "wrong" and I have made mistakes I regret. But I am not concerned with whether I have "sinned."

Once you recognize your mistakes and wrong doings, you will vow not to do them again. Each day is a new day and you vow to start fresh, and not to do them again. But you still continue to judge your own thoughts and actions and make corrections every day in order to become a better person.

I do not gossip. I do not kill people. I do not disrespect my parents or other people. I do not covet my neighbors ox or ass or SUV etc.



This is where you don't understand what I am saying. "Sin" is NOT disobedience of human laws, it is disobedience of god's law according to religious doctrine. Although some of "god's laws" are the same as human laws. To disobey human law is a "crime." To disobey god's law is a "sin."


Yes of course they can and they are. It is the individual who decides what is right and what is wrong.

Feralcat said:


You cannot change the meaning of "sin" by the nature of the act. It is your opinion that beating your child is a grave "sin." It is my opinion that it is "wrong" to harm another person no matter what.

I am talking semantics here. "Sin" should only be used in relation to religion and god's laws. "Crime" is used in relation to societies laws. "Right and wrong" are personal opinions or personal judgments.

Where in the Bible or in God's law does it say that beating your children is a sin? In fact, doesn't the bible say that you should stone unruly children?

Yes~~ you and I know it is wrong to beat your children. But to call it a "sin" means it is against god's law and injects morality and religious doctrine into the communication.

I will admit and confess my crimes, my mistakes, my wrong doings, but I will not confess to any "sins" because I do not fall under the umbrella of your religious doctrines. To admit that I am a sinner would be the same thing as accepting your religious ideals and religious authority over me.

JB

Awesome revision of the story Abra!! (I really would never have thrown the first stone though, you are right, sinless people would not do those things.)

JB

Where is it written that it's a sin to be imperfect or to make honest mistakes?

That's not even what the Bible claims. Nowhere does it claim any such thing.

Where do these supposed "Christians" get off making up their own rules? I thought they were supposed to be following what the Bible says?

The Bible says that willful disobedience of God is sin. It doesn't say that honest mistakes are sin.

Nowhere does it claim that anyone has to have lived a perfect life to be sinless.

Jesus himself said that he did not come for the righteous but for the sinners. He would have never said such a thing if he didn't believe that there are righteous people.

Christians twist the words of Jesus into lies and call that "Christianity".

Sin is willful disobedience to God. It is not a sin to have normal failings in life.

There are many things that I have done in my life that I wish I had never done. But those cannot possible be considered to be sins because I didn't to them to willfully and purposefully disobey God. I did them because I'm, stupid. And who's fault is that? I didn't create my own brain. I have to deal with the brains I was given by my creator. If I have a deficit of wisdom I cannot be held anymore responsible for that than I can be held responsible for having blue eyes.

The Bible is a horrible brainwashing technique to try to make everyone feel guilty and responsible for the fact that the world isn't perfect. But it's not their fault. They are not to blame for the imperfections in their lives.

Now, on the other hand, if they believe something to be wrong, and they do it spitefully believing that they are being disobedient to a God, and disrespectful toward other humans as well, then surely they are a malicious evil person. If sin exists, that would be a clear example of sin.

Going around accusing normal decent well-meaning people of being sinners is nothing short of being rude.

Christians try to claim that they aren't being judgmental. But look at what they do! They try to pass judgment on all of humanity. They are the biggest hypocrites ever conceived.

I knew you were lying all along Jeanniebeanie baby.

But it was a divine sinless lie.

hmm...there are so many things I should´nt think of...

A discussion of sin is very important to anyone who has a belief in God. If you accept the existence of a Creator, your next major concern is pleasing Him. Consider...an Omniscient, Omnipotent Being is responsible for your existence. Your continued well-being is totally dependent upon His whim. Is it not in your best interest to determine what He desires of you, what is acceptable and unacceptable to Him?

Sin, put as simply as possible, is that which is unacceptable to God. It is what angers God. It is what separates man from God, and from the possibility of ultimate happiness. Since the Bible is the word of God, it is logical to go to it to find out about sin. This is an important initial point. If you want to know what sin is, and what things are sinful, you must go to God to find out...NOT MAN.

Many do not believe that dressing immodestly is sin. Others go so far as to think there is nothing sinful about lying, getting drunk, gambling, or cursing. Abortion, Homosexuality, Racism, etc., you can always find someone who will deny such things are sinful. But it is not important what man may think about such things. The question must be, "What does the Bible say about sin?" It is only in asking this question that we can know what God considers sinful. And it is only in knowing what God considers sinful that we can ensure we are pleasing to Him.

majik man:

Jesus himself said that he did not come for the righteous but for the sinners. He would have never said such a thing if he didn't believe that there are righteous people


TRIBO:

no offense james, but your taking that saying out of context. Mett: 9-vs-13

before he made that statement he was talking to the Pharisee's who had asked why of his disciples, does your master eat with the publican's and sinners? his remark was to them as to what you state, he rails against those that consider themselves to be righteous in there own eyes and says " They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick" meaning the Pharisee's who believed they were without sin. then he continues with - i will have mercy and not sacrifice - for i am not come to call the "righteous" (you the pharisees who think yourself perfect and without sin) - But sinner's ( those who think and admit there soulish state of disobedience towards gods commandments) to repentance.

if anything what i see stated here is that he was being sarcastic in his words to the pharisees, not saying that there were righteous people who did not commit sins by gods standards. my opinion as always.

I'm totally aware of the context in which it was said Tribo.

It's makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. To claim that God was being sarcastic in his words diminishes the entire value of his words. We can't have a God running around being sarcastic in his speech.

The whole thing about all men being inherently evil and sinful is nothing more than demagoguery created by the religious institutions to be sure that no man can claim to beyond the authority of the church or not in need of salvation. It's the oldest brainwashing technique around.

The very idea of a God who is hell bent on making sinners out of his entire creation is a sick demented idea in the first place. It's a very negative picture of a creator.

It suggests that God failed miserably in his creation. All he managed to do was create a race of total failures.

It's an extremely negative picture of a supposedly all-wise, all-loving, all-powerful, all-perfect supreme being. In fact, it completely flies in the face of that ideal altogether. Such a God would have been a total failure as a creator. He can't even create a decent man. What a terribly inept creator he would be!

I don't buy it for a second. The Bible is hell bent on making both God and all of humanity out to be dismal failures. If I believed in Satan I'd be convinced that he wrote the Bible. It's a terribly negative book.

But man wrote the bible and made up the whole thing.

Why should anyone believe that the Bible is the word of God?

Do you seriously believe that God told people to stone their unruly children to death?

Do you seriously believe that God told people to pass judgments on their brothers and sisters and to stone them to death too?

Do you seriously believe that God told people to murder heathens and destroy the entire villages from whence they came?

I don't believe that the creator of this universe ever told anyone to do those things.

There is no reason whatsoever why I should even remotely consider that the Bible has anything to do with God much less be "His Word".

On the contrary, I can give you a myriad of reasons why it can't possible have been written by an all-wise unchanging deity.

So your claim that the Bible is the word of God has no value or substance at all. It's a totally unwarranted and unsubstantiated claim.

There is no reason at all why I should believe that the Bible has anything at all to do with the creator of this universe.

One doesn't need to go to the bible to know what sin is. One can go to a dictionary and read the definition.

Since I am basically a pantheist, I find that pleasing myself is pleasing to the one true god.

Your entire post of course, is written within the confines of a religious doctrine that I do not fall under so it does not apply to me, but I am sure fellow Christians will like it.

JB

Abra,

In speaking to Christians and about their doctrine you seem to still be attached to it in that you acknowledge the word "sin" as meaning "willful disobedience to God." But they are talking about the Biblical concept and depiction of god, not to your concept of the divine creator who is all loving and wise.

If you were to truly divorce yourself from religious dogma you would not accept their labeling you as a sinner or their ideas about "sin." "Sin" in intimately linked to the Bible which you reject outright as the word of god, so you should also think about rejecting their word "sin" which means to disobey the rules set forth in the Bible, which they claim to be "god's word."

JB

We are human we do wat we want when we want! thinkin just makes things worse! AHHHH my evil mind!

Abra wrote:



You are not stupid James. You are one of the smartest people I know.

Besides how do you know you did not create your own brain? You may have played a part in that creative endeavor since you are part of and connected to the creator.

The holographic model suggests that the brain is merely a holographic projection of mind stuff. The individual soul is the source of the mind stuff. Souls are creators in the image of the one true prime source.

In the spiritual sense you are totally responsible for everything about yourself to include the color of your eyes.

That is my belief.

JB

majik man:

makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. To claim that God was being sarcastic in his words diminishes the entire value of his words. We can't have a God running around being sarcastic in his speech.


TRIBO:

sorry james, i probably should not have used the word sarcastic, my mistake, he was neither being facetious or sarcastic, but judgemental to those who were judging him incorrectly.

either way your right for you it makes no diff. i just like to keep statements being made with in th audiece factor that was present and it was intended for. whether the book or a magazine article, thats all. my takes most likely wrong anyway since i don't have their holy spirit.

I believe you're right. I really do.

You need to understand that I'm still a "recoving" Christian. The religion really screwed me up big time. Or to put that in terms more in alignment with your wisdom, "I permitted the religion to screw me up big time".

Christianity actually teaches that we are not responsible for ourselves. I know that just about every Christian on the planet will disagree with that statement, but that's only because they are truly blind to the underlying principles that they are supporting.

If we were created by an external creator, then we would not be responsible for the color of our eyes, or for the condition of our brains, or for the level of our own stupidity.

But you are right!

I'm totally responsible for everything!

And I'm denying my responsibily as a hangover from having been a Christian! And I've been doing that for years!

Christianity has ingrained in me the idea that I'm not responsible for creation because I'm not the creator!

But you're right. I am the creator, and I'm fully responsible for the total disaster I have created in my own image!

I'm guilty of creating all my flaws!

I did it to myself!

I'm such an idiot! You're right. Even though I denounce the biblical picture of God I never stopped thinking that way!!!

But you're right. I'm a fool.

I need to shape up and become the creator of myself.

I'm going to go pet my cat now and think about this for a little bit.

I want to do that 20-year thing that you've suggested too. I deserve it, and I'm ready to do it now. Besides I could use the extra 20 years just to catch up to where I should have been a long time ago.

I need to get rid of my belly too. But I know I created that. I used tons of Dr. Pepper and pizza for that trick.

Owl have to start drinking carrot juice and eating bananas. It'll subside in no time. It's not exactly obese. Just a little potty thing hanging over my belt. It's still "tuckable" when a pretty woman walks by.

But none the less, it's got to go!

It takes discipline and commitment to stick to doing the exercises every day, but they will have you feeling younger in a very short time.

The fastest way that I have found to get rid of belly fat is to cut down carbs. The first thing to go is sugar and empty carbs and calories.

But I sure do like sweet, and I lack discipline. I too need to get back to that goal. Thanks for the reminder.

JB

Abra;

When you start claiming what the bible says - could you give a reference so we can investigate these "assetions" for ourselves. Or would you like us to clump you into the group of those televangelists you so detest.

Because you're starting to sound like one of them.