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Topic: Belief or Betrayal
Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Tue 06/17/08 01:19 AM
The idea that the creator of this universe is raising pets to be its obedient unquestioning servants and has designed reality in such a way that pets that don't meet its requirements will be tortured it utterly absurd. Such a creator would be a sadist. How would God benefit by torturing the pets that don't meet its requirements? An all powerful God who can just strike things dead with the wave its hand would have no reason to torture anyone or anything, unless it is indeed a sadist and likes to see being suffer. Otherwise there's no call for it. Clearly this religion was invented by men to strike the fear of eternal damnation into the hearts and minds of anyone who dares to reject the authority of the church. To believe that the actual creator of this universe could be this pathetic is truly a pathetic notion in and of itself. The religion can't possibly be true (unless God truly is as sick demented demon). There's no excuse for the biblical picture of God. It's a manmade picture. Entirely manmade. And that explains perfectly why it's so terribly absurd, illogical, and inconsistent. The biblical picture of God is indefensible. Pure and simple.

MorningSong Joined Mon 02/11/08 Posts: 4505	Tue 06/17/08 03:10 AM Edited by MorningSong on Tue 06/17/08 04:08 AM
The idea that the creator of this universe is raising pets to be its obedient unquestioning servants and has designed reality in such a way that pets that don't meet its requirements will be tortured it utterly absurd. Such a creator would be a sadist. How would God benefit by torturing the pets that don't meet its requirements? An all powerful God who can just strike things dead with the wave its hand would have no reason to torture anyone or anything, unless it is indeed a sadist and likes to see being suffer. Otherwise there's no call for it. Clearly this religion was invented by men to strike the fear of eternal damnation into the hearts and minds of anyone who dares to reject the authority of the church. To believe that the actual creator of this universe could be this pathetic is truly a pathetic notion in and of itself. The religion can't possibly be true (unless God truly is as sick demented demon). There's no excuse for the biblical picture of God. It's a manmade picture. Entirely manmade. And that explains perfectly why it's so terribly absurd, illogical, and inconsistent. The biblical picture of God is indefensible. Pure and simple. Abra Abra Abra..... you have such a misconcrued idea of God. Jesus said, "I no longer call you servant ,but FRIEND" We obey God not out of fear, but out of LOVE and THANKFULNESS for what He has done. And we as Christians are CONFIDENT that God has given us the BEST instructions possible on how to live. God created us for a Purpose, and that Purpose is to spend ETERNITY with Him. God is a Supremely LOVING GOD , Abra. And Just Wants His "Kids" to Come Home and Be with Him....and Fellowship With Him. God Loves Us...So Much ,Abra . So Very Very Much...... GOD IS LOVE!!!!!! "Thou wilt shew me the Path of LIFE , in Thy Presence is Fulness of JOY; at Thy Right Hand there art Pleasures For Evermore " (Psalm 16:11).

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 06/17/08 05:23 AM
Hmmm... So, I see Christianity has been reduced to a religion that stones it's unruly children. Therefore, it can't be valid, and should be abandoned. I wish I could say I admire this logical and critical thinking. Really, you think you've got a grasp of Christianity? well "Eljay" it's apparent that you don't have a grasp of Christianity either as you try to be deceptive by presenting your illusions of denial... your first illusion of denial was when you tried to give the illusion that the purpose of Hell was not to torture non-believers and then your second illusion of denial was when you try to create the illusion that God is not the CEO in charge of who get's tortured all you need is one more illusion of denial and you'll be tied with St. Peter Funches; The purpose of hell is for what? To torture non-believers you say. What does the bible say the purpose of hell is for? (Since the concept of hell is a biblical one) Also, when you say "God" - who are you refering to? The CEO in charge of "who gets tortured" as you put it - is Jesus. If you are going to discuss biblical topics leaving the impresion that you understand them - at least get the facts right. "Eljay" I know that the bible can be confusing for some so I will place it all into prespective so that you can possible grasp the concept or either come out of denial about it Hell would not exist if God didn't fire up the furnace so the fires of hell exist as a manifestation of God ..since Christians claim that God is everything therefore God also exist as the fires of Hell so that makes God the "torturer" .. the bible says that God once appeared as a burning bush so it's conceivable that God could also exist as the fires of hell since God have manifested the fires of hell to torture it can't accomplish that function unless it has something to torture and that is when Jesus and Heaven's angels and those pesty non-believers comes into the picture as CEO of torture it is God's job to sit in judgment as to who will be placed into those fires and since Jesus is part of management it's up to Jesus to supply heathenous non-believers to feed those fires and last but not least the "believers" role in this monumental event is to not speak against or question what is taking place but are required to only give praise and shout "AMEN" and "HALLALUYA" with the knowledge that their love ones are being tortured

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 06/17/08 05:31 AM
<<< ElJay >>> Rapunzal once again lives up to the religious rumor that women should be seen and not heard as she meekly hides in the background ...the dark ages are over so speak up woman

star_tin_gover Joined Tue 04/29/08 Posts: 735	Tue 06/17/08 05:57 AM
Hmmm... So, I see Christianity has been reduced to a religion that stones it's unruly children. Therefore, it can't be valid, and should be abandoned. I wish I could say I admire this logical and critical thinking. Really, you think you've got a grasp of Christianity? well "Eljay" it's apparent that you don't have a grasp of Christianity either as you try to be deceptive by presenting your illusions of denial... your first illusion of denial was when you tried to give the illusion that the purpose of Hell was not to torture non-believers and then your second illusion of denial was when you try to create the illusion that God is not the CEO in charge of who get's tortured all you need is one more illusion of denial and you'll be tied with St. Peter Funches; The purpose of hell is for what? To torture non-believers you say. What does the bible say the purpose of hell is for? (Since the concept of hell is a biblical one) Also, when you say "God" - who are you refering to? The CEO in charge of "who gets tortured" as you put it - is Jesus. If you are going to discuss biblical topics leaving the impresion that you understand them - at least get the facts right. "Eljay" I know that the bible can be confusing for some so I will place it all into prespective so that you can possible grasp the concept or either come out of denial about it Hell would not exist if God didn't fire up the furnace so the fires of hell exist as a manifestation of God ..since Christians claim that God is everything therefore God also exist as the fires of Hell so that makes God the "torturer" .. the bible says that God once appeared as a burning bush so it's conceivable that God could also exist as the fires of hell since God have manifested the fires of hell to torture it can't accomplish that function unless it has something to torture and that is when Jesus and Heaven's angels and those pesty non-believers comes into the picture as CEO of torture it is God's job to sit in judgment as to who will be placed into those fires and since Jesus is part of management it's up to Jesus to supply heathenous non-believers to feed those fires and last but not least the "believers" role in this monumental event is to not speak against or question what is taking place but are required to only give praise and shout "AMEN" and "HALLALUYA" with the knowledge that their love ones are being tortured I am always amazed when someone with greasy hands wants to show me the right way to climb a rope. Clue is not just a board game. You should get it. Fun for all and all for funches.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 06/17/08 07:04 AM
I am always amazed when someone with greasy hands wants to show me the right way to climb a rope. Clue is not just a board game. You should get it. Fun for all and all for funches. and "Clueless" is a movie so "star_tin_gover" don't let it be your reality.... besides the goal is to get you up the rope not to show you how to look pretty doing it ..

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Tue 06/17/08 08:43 AM Edited by Rapunzel on Tue 06/17/08 09:43 AM
<<< ElJay >>> Rapunzal once again lives up to the religious rumor that women should be seen and not heard as she meekly hides in the background ...the dark ages are over so speak up woman funches, you are so full of yourself and couldn't be any further from the truth regarding me why don't you go speak of something that you have true knowledge & understanding of .. what you don't realize is... if i wanted to get into these conversations, i would ...i have every right & freedom to i have absolutely no problem speaking my mind... and the beauty part of this country is that i have the freedom to do it... My Soldier friends are fighting for me... and even for your very ungrateful existence sooooooooo You are so very very very incorrect funches.... you have no clue who i am or what i am thinking, and this is the second time i've noticed lately that you just love to try and throw your accusations & insinuations my way... just because i don't give you the time of day doesn't give you the right to attack me sooooo...get over yourself & remove me from all of your comments & conversation...

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Tue 06/17/08 09:29 AM


Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Tue 06/17/08 09:50 AM
<<< ElJay >>> Rapunzal once again lives up to the religious rumor that women should be seen and not heard as she meekly hides in the background ...the dark ages are over so speak up woman oh and by the way.... dark ages??? speak entirely for yourself.... and only for yourself... I am in the Bright Light of the Lord Jesus Christ & will dwell there forever and ever for eternity

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Tue 06/17/08 09:59 AM Edited by Rapunzel on Tue 06/17/08 10:13 AM
Psalm 23 1}The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2} He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3} He restoreth my soul: He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His Name's sake. 4} Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me. 5} Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6} Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 06/17/08 10:00 AM
Rapunzel stated: We obey God not out of fear, but out of LOVE and THANKFULNESS for what He has done. My question to you is... what has your God done that you are so thankful for? JB

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Tue 06/17/08 10:06 AM
Rapunzel stated: We obey God not out of fear, but out of LOVE and THANKFULNESS for what He has done. My question to you is... what has your God done that you are so thankful for? JB Oh, my Gosh... Dear Jeanniebean.... How long do you have for me to expound on the blessings that God has bestowed upon me...? I would truly be here all day going into great detail... but alas, i do not have all day today to sit & reflect... and i am so far backlogged with work as it is... but i'd be happy to speak with you on the phone... to tell you of the Lord's presence & miracles & blessings in my life

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 06/17/08 10:09 AM
Rapunzel stated: We obey God not out of fear, but out of LOVE and THANKFULNESS for what He has done. My question to you is... what has your God done that you are so thankful for? JB Oh, my Gosh... Dear Jeanniebean.... How long do you have for me to expound on the blessings that God has bestowed upon me...? I would truly be here all day going into great detail... but alas, i do not have all day today to sit & reflect... and i am so far backlogged with work as it is... but i'd be happy to speak with you on the phone... to tell you of the Lord's presence & miracles & blessings in my life I know you have an apparently wonderful life and you give all the credit to your Lord and Master, but how do you know that he is personally responsible for that? JB

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Tue 06/17/08 10:20 AM Edited by Rapunzel on Tue 06/17/08 10:26 AM
Rapunzel stated: We obey God not out of fear, but out of LOVE and THANKFULNESS for what He has done. My question to you is... what has your God done that you are so thankful for? JB Oh, my Gosh... Dear Jeanniebean.... How long do you have for me to expound on the blessings that God has bestowed upon me...? I would truly be here all day going into great detail... but alas, i do not have all day today to sit & reflect... and i am so far backlogged with work as it is... but i'd be happy to speak with you on the phone... to tell you of the Lord's presence & miracles & blessings in my life I know you have an apparently wonderful life and you give all the credit to your Lord and Master, but how do you know that he is personally responsible for that? JB Oh Dear Lady ...my dear inquisitive friend... I appreciate you and your willingness to listen... My life is not perfect, nor is it without obstacle... and the Lord never said that we would have only a bed of roses... I have been widowed twice & have had really rough times but there have been many many instances without the tiniest shadow of a doubt that I know MY Lord has intervened & has been there exclusively for me... there are many things that i could say .. to speak of the Divine Interventions in my life... but many of them are much too personal to speak online... and that is why i offered to speak with you in private

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 06/17/08 11:03 AM
I have also had "divine" or unexplained "interventions" .. even miracles in my life. My life was saved twice (that I am aware of) by unexplained paranormal events that can't be explained by science. Yet I don't profess to give the credit to any particular god because there is no evidence pointing to any particular god. I am a seeker of truth. I don't assume things not in evidence. I can imagine all sorts of things, I can guess and speculate. I can have an idea of what might be the cause. I can follow the path of reason and chose the one that makes the most sense. But I can't know for certain, and neither can you. You can only guess or assume. JB

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Tue 06/17/08 11:22 AM
I have also had "divine" or unexplained "interventions" .. even miracles in my life. My life was saved twice (that I am aware of) by unexplained paranormal events that can't be explained by science. Yet I don't profess to give the credit to any particular god because there is no evidence pointing to any particular god. I am a seeker of truth. I don't assume things not in evidence. I can imagine all sorts of things, I can guess and speculate. I can have an idea of what might be the cause. I can follow the path of reason and chose the one that makes the most sense. But I can't know for certain, and neither can you. You can only guess or assume. JB Well, call it what you choose... But I believe that Christ is at work in your life... revealing Himself to you in miracles & blessings... and in ways unexplained by human logic & reasoning I am in this world , but i am not of it... I realize that no mortal mind can comprehend the extent of the Majesty Of the Lord Jesus Christ . Christ has revealed Himself to me in Spirit and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt... there is no second guessing here..... I don't need to continually lay it all out ... He has made His Presence & Deity very very clear

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 06/17/08 11:22 AM
My Soldier friends are fighting for me... and even for your very ungrateful existence sooooooooo will your soldier friends also fight Jesus and his angel army and help save your love ones from the fires of hell ...since that's something you're not willing to do .. just because i don't give you the time of day doesn't give you the right to attack me well Rapunzel ...by now you have realized that I would never enter into any of your threads...so you're came in this thread being passive aggressive so I would talk to you .....so ..er.. what's shaking baby?

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 06/17/08 11:25 AM
<<< ElJay >>> Rapunzal once again lives up to the religious rumor that women should be seen and not heard as she meekly hides in the background ...the dark ages are over so speak up woman oh and by the way.... dark ages??? speak entirely for yourself.... and only for yourself... I am in the Bright Light of the Lord Jesus Christ & will dwell there forever and ever for eternity geez "Rapunzel" I know I was trying to get you to talk ..but ..er.. is there an off switch?

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Tue 06/17/08 12:04 PM
My life was saved twice (that I am aware of) by unexplained paranormal events that can't be explained by science. Yet I don't profess to give the credit to any particular god because there is no evidence pointing to any particular god. Isn't it redundant to speak about a God who saves lives? The whole idea of believing in God is supposed to be the belief of an eternal everlasting life with God. When a Christian tells me that God saved his or her life all they are really telling me is that the genuinely don't believe in God at all.

iamgeorgiagirl Joined Tue 12/04/07 Posts: 1288	Tue 06/17/08 02:18 PM Edited by iamgeorgiagirl on Tue 06/17/08 02:20 PM
how could a believer claim that they will have eternal peace in Heaven knowing that their loves ones are being tortured in Hell for an eternity while they worship and praise the God that is responsible for causing their family and friends torment would the only way to deal with such a dilemma require that the believer cut all ties with their human emotions and therefore exist as spiritual sociopaths or do the believer actually emotionally feed off the fact that one day a multitude of others will be tormented surely a believer would say that it was the others choice not to follow God and they must suffer the consequences but that still doesn't address the main issue which is why would a believer praise a God that would have to torture others for an eternity and the believer not speak against this for that eternity... so would praising such a God be more like a betrayal or indifference against the believer's love ones and/or the human race and has that been what religion has been about through-out history ...indifference Hello my gorgeous, hunky, testosterone filled man you , how could a believer claim that they will have eternal peace in Heaven knowing that their loves ones are being tortured in Hell for an eternity while they worship and praise the God that is responsible for causing their family and friends torment How do you think a believer could know that their loves ones are being tortured in Hell? Even if they thought that they do not know what is in anyone else’s heart or mind. They do not know the private thoughts between God and anyone else. They can only suppose if they even chose to go around thinking such a thing. would the only way to deal with such a dilemma require that the believer cut all ties with their human emotions and therefore exist as spiritual sociopaths or do the believer actually emotionally feed off the fact that one day a multitude of others will be tormented Good gawd! Like I said no one can judge or know what is in someone else’s mind. Anyone who says someone else is in hell is full of it. Hell is not a place like someone going to Atlanta. It is a final death of a soul it has never happened to anyone yet. Look up the original language and definition. Heaven isn’t really a place either it is an eternity or immortality of a soul. I honestly believe this with all my heart and soul. And as far as reveling in the fact that someone else might be lesser than me and going to hell (or going to be put to a final death) that would make me a horrible person. There is no way I could know that for sure anyway even if I was horrible and could like you say actually emotionally feed off the fact that one day a multitude of others will be tormented. . surely a believer would say that it was the others choice not to follow God and they must suffer the consequences but that still doesn't address the main issue which is why would a believer praise a God that would have to torture others for an eternity and the believer not speak against this for that eternity... I would have little respect for a God that didn’t draw a line somewhere when it comes to punishment for wrong doings. Basically God punishes only those who do horrible, evil things to others and have no remorse. Do you not think there are some who deserve punishment? To be put out of society permanently unless remorseful? I wish no one deserved it but unfortunately there are some that I think probably deserve it. It is not my fault or God’s. I am not the judge either and my opinion of whether someone deserves it or not doesn’t matter. It is moot. so would praising such a God be more like a betrayal or indifference against the believer's love ones and/or the human race and has that been what religion has been about through-out history ...indifference God gets angry at those that hurt others but so does most other people too. It is odd to me that you think this way. Do you think no one deserves any punishment? They should just be allowed to kill others, rape, steal, etc.? I am glad true vengeance belongs to God and not humans. What human is worthy of such a thing? We have trouble picking out a president.