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| Topic: Belief or Betrayal | |
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3) You have never met God or witnessed a miracle? That's because to meet God or witness a miracle would remove your free will. It would exclude the possiblity that God doesn't exist from your mind, so you would choose to worship God for reward or to avoid punishment. God wants us to worship out of faith and love, not fear and greed. Spidercmb now you know that doesn't make any sense ..especially since there are no such things as miracles ...I even made a thread about miracles and ask people to tell of a miracle that happen today ..oddly no one could .. also if God wanted you to worship him out of faith and not fear then he wouldn't have included Hell into the equation Read what I posted again, you didn't get it the first time. |
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Eljay wrote:
Both locations are described in enough detail to render a response of "I never knew it would be like this" just idiotic. Now - the choice remains with the individual. Eljay, this is ridiculous. You're suggesting that people who see the bible as being utterly absurd are supposed to believe something that is written in it? Then you claim that now the choice is up to them? That's absurd, and I realize I use that word a lot but it's not wonder, it's the best word to use! The Bible is an utterly aburd document. It contains so many contraditions and impossibilities that no one should believe it. Yet now you are trying to claim that people who don't believe in the stupid book are making a choice to go to hell? Nonsense. |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Fri 06/13/08 10:43 AM
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how could a believer claim that they will have eternal peace in Heaven knowing that their loves ones are being tortured in Hell for an eternity while they worship and praise the God that is responsible for causing their family and friends torment
Funches is 100% correct. And any objections to what he had said in the above quote are totally indefensible. A religion can’t have a God who plays hide-&-seek and guessing games sending people to hell for having guessed wrong, and then claim that the those people chose to go to hell. That’s absurd. And this is just one more of a myriad of reasons why non-believers don’t believe it. The religion is absurd. The God plays hide-&-seek and then is mean to the people who don’t find him? That’s utterly absurd. And it’s totally indefensible position. Such a scenario would require that God sends innocent decent people to hell who have no chosen to go to hell at all. All they did was innocently claim that they could not find the God who plays hide-&-seek because evidently that God would need to be hiding behinds a myriad of lies. Who would be foolish enough to seek out a God who hides behinds lies???? Heaven would be full of fools and all the wise people would be in hell. What sense does that make? What does God have against wise men? If he wanted fools as pets why didn’t he just stop when he created the monkeys? Why even bother to give men wisdom if he’s only going to cast the wise men into hell? Again, it’s an utterly absurd scenario. You have to be a fool to believe that it could be true. That’s not meant as a personal insult to those who claim to believe it. I personally believe that the people who believe in this religion are believing in it because they have some sort of deep-seated guilt complex that they can’t seem to get over. They idea that they would believe in this religion because it appears to be a sound intellectual choice is impossible. The religion is full of absurdness and contradictions that no one can claim that it makes rational sense. No one can explain it rationally, because it’s a totally unreasonable picture. This God would need to send reasonable people to hell because they choose to be reasonable. Abra, God performs miracles everyday, and provides witnesses to his existence. I dont get the hide-n-seek gig! 
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Now - the choice remains with the individual. If I have love ones who chose not to spend eternity with God in heaven and therefore have chosen to suffer the consequences thereof - you want me to now abandon God because He allowed them their choice? God gives the individual a choice of "either or" which equations to a threat and not a choice ..but that is not the issue...the issue is why would people praise a God as he is torturing their love ones and not speak against it It's not a threat. If people felt threatened, then there would be a whole lot more Christians. Only someone who believed in hell would feel threatened. Those who don't believe in hell couldn't care less. "spidercmb"...since this thread is addressed to the mentality of believers then the threat of Hell may be revalant as to why believers would not speak against the torture of their family and friends |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Fri 06/13/08 10:51 AM
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God wants us to worship out of faith and love, not fear and greed.
Then why is the doctrine that is supposed to be his word so full of threats toward people who might not believe in him? Why does the doctrine try to lure people with the prize of a gift of eternal life if they believe? Clearly it’s a manmade religion that uses ever underhanded tactic they could come up with to try to intimidated people into following it. It’s extremely based on intimidation and fear tatics. If that’s not what God is like, then why is “His Word” like that? Why does His Word not match your claim of what he’s supposedly like??? The only thing we have to go on is the doctrine. The doctrine is supposed to be the description of what this God is like. And the doctrine is full of intimidation and fear tactics to try to get people to believe. This is just another “have your cake and eat it too” argument. You want us to believe that the Bible is the word of God. But you don’t want us to believe that God is like the Bible????? That’s an oxymoron. 
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3) You have never met God or witnessed a miracle? That's because to meet God or witness a miracle would remove your free will. It would exclude the possiblity that God doesn't exist from your mind, so you would choose to worship God for reward or to avoid punishment. God wants us to worship out of faith and love, not fear and greed. Spidercmb now you know that doesn't make any sense ..especially since there are no such things as miracles ...I even made a thread about miracles and ask people to tell of a miracle that happen today ..oddly no one could .. also if God wanted you to worship him out of faith and not fear then he wouldn't have included Hell into the equation Read what I posted again, you didn't get it the first time. or the twelveth time either |
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Abra, God performs miracles everyday, and provides witnesses to his existence. I dont get the hide-n-seek gig!
I've never seen any miracles that couldn't be attributed to other reasons. And "witnesses" don't mean a thing because we know that people will claim anything. Hell, people are STILL claiming to see Elvis and he was just a rock star, not even a God. If you're going to believe "witnesses" then you'd also have to believe in UFO abductions and ghosts, and basically everything anyone tells you. As far as I'm concerned I've never seen anything in this life yet that has been so incredible that I couldn't believe that it was just random chance, or pure luck. |
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I don't believe in random chance or pure "luck".
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Abra, God performs miracles everyday, and provides witnesses to his existence. I dont get the hide-n-seek gig!
I've never seen any miracles that couldn't be attributed to other reasons. And "witnesses" don't mean a thing because we know that people will claim anything. Hell, people are STILL claiming to see Elvis and he was just a rock star, not even a God. If you're going to believe "witnesses" then you'd also have to believe in UFO abductions and ghosts, and basically everything anyone tells you. As far as I'm concerned I've never seen anything in this life yet that has been so incredible that I couldn't believe that it was just random chance, or pure luck. hmmmmm? |
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I don't believe in random chance or pure "luck". It doesn't matter what you believe. Random chance has not only been observed to be true, but it has even been mathematically described in great detail. So much so that we can even predict the probabilities of things. Chance is a given. At a horse race there is a chance that some horse is going to win. Luck is what we call it when the horse we had bet on is the one that wins. Luck and chance are all around you. They really aren't open to belief. You can deny them all you want, but who cares? That doesn't change reality. |
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Chance is a given. At a horse race there is a chance that some horse is going to win. That is not chance it is a fact. Luck is what we call it when the horse we had bet on is the one that wins. That is doing your research on the horses and placing your bet on the horse with best odds.....OR divine intervention, in my opinion. |
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Cherub,
You can believe in divine intervention all you want. That still doesn't rule out that luck also happens. Unless you believe that God is intervening in every little thing that happens. Luck is a given. If you want to put divine intervention on top of that as an additional possibly in some cases, be my guest. 
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Thank you. I do believe that which is commonly known as "luck" is actually devine intervention.
But you are very right....it is most commonly known as "luck" Hey, what can I say. I like my rose tinted world. It goes with my complexion.  
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Fri 06/13/08 11:41 AM
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Abra, God performs miracles everyday, and provides witnesses to his existence. I dont get the hide-n-seek gig!
I've never seen any miracles that couldn't be attributed to other reasons. And "witnesses" don't mean a thing because we know that people will claim anything. Hell, people are STILL claiming to see Elvis and he was just a rock star, not even a God. If you're going to believe "witnesses" then you'd also have to believe in UFO abductions and ghosts, and basically everything anyone tells you. As far as I'm concerned I've never seen anything in this life yet that has been so incredible that I couldn't believe that it was just random chance, or pure luck. WOW, Your loss of faith is Total, isn't it? Not just in God, but man too! 
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Fri 06/13/08 11:51 AM
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Now, Let me get this right.
You do believe in extra-terrestrial beings coming to earth, kidnapping people, erasing their memories, and performing medical experiments? 
ORRrrrrr,,, Is that bad luck?
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Abra said;
Funches is 100% correct. And any objections to what he had said in the above quote are totally indefensible. Wrong. Where does it say God tortures anyone? It's Funches who says that. And here it is I believed you when you said you read the bible. |
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Now - the choice remains with the individual. If I have love ones who chose not to spend eternity with God in heaven and therefore have chosen to suffer the consequences thereof - you want me to now abandon God because He allowed them their choice? God gives the individual a choice of "either or" which equations to a threat and not a choice ..but that is not the issue...the issue is why would people praise a God as he is torturing their love ones and not speak against it I know you know how to read Funches. What part of "Where does it say God tortures those in hell" do you not understand? |
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how could a believer claim that they will have eternal peace in Heaven knowing that their loves ones are being tortured in Hell for an eternity while they worship and praise the God that is responsible for causing their family and friends torment
Funches is 100% correct. And any objections to what he had said in the above quote are totally indefensible. A religion can’t have a God who plays hide-&-seek and guessing games sending people to hell for having guessed wrong, and then claim that the those people chose to go to hell. That’s absurd. And this is just one more of a myriad of reasons why non-believers don’t believe it. The religion is absurd. The God plays hide-&-seek and then is mean to the people who don’t find him? That’s utterly absurd. And it’s totally indefensible position. Such a scenario would require that God sends innocent decent people to hell who have no chosen to go to hell at all. All they did was innocently claim that they could not find the God who plays hide-&-seek because evidently that God would need to be hiding behinds a myriad of lies. Who would be foolish enough to seek out a God who hides behinds lies???? Heaven would be full of fools and all the wise people would be in hell. What sense does that make? What does God have against wise men? If he wanted fools as pets why didn’t he just stop when he created the monkeys? Why even bother to give men wisdom if he’s only going to cast the wise men into hell? Again, it’s an utterly absurd scenario. You have to be a fool to believe that it could be true. That’s not meant as a personal insult to those who claim to believe it. I personally believe that the people who believe in this religion are believing in it because they have some sort of deep-seated guilt complex that they can’t seem to get over. They idea that they would believe in this religion because it appears to be a sound intellectual choice is impossible. The religion is full of absurdness and contradictions that no one can claim that it makes rational sense. No one can explain it rationally, because it’s a totally unreasonable picture. This God would need to send reasonable people to hell because they choose to be reasonable. Abra God is in Heaven. For those who do not wish to enter there - God does not admit them. Period. He doesn't "send them anywhere". You have made this assumption. Had you read the book, you'd know otherwise. |
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Thank you. I do believe that which is commonly known as "luck" is actually devine intervention.
But you are very right....it is most commonly known as "luck" Hey, what can I say. I like my rose tinted world. It goes with my complexion.
If you attribute all luck to being miracles, then all you are really doing is denying that any miracles exist at all. Because the whole idea of a 'miracle' is that it is something out of the ordinary.
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Eljay wrote:
Both locations are described in enough detail to render a response of "I never knew it would be like this" just idiotic. Now - the choice remains with the individual. Eljay, this is ridiculous. You're suggesting that people who see the bible as being utterly absurd are supposed to believe something that is written in it? Then you claim that now the choice is up to them? That's absurd, and I realize I use that word a lot but it's not wonder, it's the best word to use! The Bible is an utterly aburd document. It contains so many contraditions and impossibilities that no one should believe it. Yet now you are trying to claim that people who don't believe in the stupid book are making a choice to go to hell? Nonsense. Abra; This thread has nothing to do with people who don't believe the bible. Read Funches post again. For that matter - read mine again, I qualified my response so I wouldn't have to deal with your strawman arguments. |
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