Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: The Ugly Face Of Christianity
Blackbird Joined Fri 12/22/06 Posts: 202	Wed 06/11/08 10:43 PM
Spider, I am not disputing what YOU say you said. I am stating that the bible listed this as fact. My sources of information include more than just the bible which could explain the confusion about the state of the Jewish nation between you and I at the time Jesus lived. Although I have shown to be slightly impatient having the original intent of posts ignored while you nitpick details I have tried to over explain when needed. At this point I leave the burden on you to do your own research and studying until you understand what I have said, because although it pertains to your debate and questions it has little or no business in this subject thread. I admitedly only brought them up because they are documented facts that completely blow huge holes in the whole bible Story about Jesus and for this I apologize. The point about Trinities is that Mary (the companion or friend) of Jesus was confused with another Mary and additional texts call into question exactly which Joseph was which and which Mary was the mother of Jesus. (Honest truth that has nothing to do with christian Faith if the lessons of Jesus Christ are being followed without claiming the bible is a divine work). My point is yet again I repeat this. The bible is a gift to man given by other men, in hopes that it will bring people closer to god by explaining the history of texts available and chosen about the hebrew god and the life and teachings of Jesus. Regardless of how it happened men pieced it together, and propogated it's being coppied. I disagree with you on a basic level I believe that the teachings of Christ (including the worship of god) are the basis of christianity, and the bible is a book about all of it. I believe that saying the bible is the cornerstone of christianity likens it to an idol making it a god within itself in spirit, when it is actually intended to convey a holy message without in it's own existence being a holy entity. I can only hope that is clear enough for you.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Wed 06/11/08 10:45 PM
Blackbird, As a man who values logic and honesty in discussion, your last post was repugnant. I hope that you will think about the mistakes you made and attempt to raise the level of discussion rather than lower it. I'm dead on accurate based on information available to modern man I've done my research. Now if you wish to actually read everything I am saying without nitpicking I will gladly acknowledge when you make a valid point rather than just argue out of principle. Your post was gratuitous assertions. You keep insisting that "Roman marriage laws were forced on Jews", but offer no evidence. I have NEVER heard that. I'm sure you are confident that you have studied the subject more than I and maybe you have. Please offer a citation for that claim. For the most part, your post wasn't worth responding to. I don't like logical fallacys. I have addressed the central arguments to every single post you have made in reply to me. Show me an important argument that I have ignored. That's assuming that you don't believe "Overwelm them with nonsense is that the plan? " to be a valid argument. You stated something about Jesus' life that I disagreed with, so I responded. The conversation has evolved from there. Now you try to blame me with overwhelming you with nonsense? Your arguments aren't logical, they aren't supported by the Bible, they aren't supported by history.

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Wed 06/11/08 11:05 PM Edited by Rapunzel on Wed 06/11/08 11:08 PM
Oooooohhhh nooooooo {{{{{ <<<<< Spider >>>>> }}}}} sounds like it is the same story only a different day I should can my responses, so that I can copy/paste every time a new person posts the same old tired arguements. I'm trying to give BB the benefit of the doubt, but he's quickly wearing down my patience. You really should can them ... so you don't have to start from < Scratch > every time... & please do get some greatly needed rest... Very Awesome Daddy & Mr Information Technology Extraordinaire among many other roles you play & hats you wear

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Wed 06/11/08 11:42 PM
Spider. i could care less who u are talking to. but leaving out a letter of a foul froward word of disgust means nothing. it is the same as saying it in the anger you are showing. the sermon on the mount explains this very well and i am sure that you do not want that type of reputation as a believer. i would suggest a heartfelt apology that your actions is not your belief..miles

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Thu 06/12/08 05:13 AM
Spider. i could care less who u are talking to. but leaving out a letter of a foul froward word of disgust means nothing. it is the same as saying it in the anger you are showing. the sermon on the mount explains this very well and i am sure that you do not want that type of reputation as a believer. i would suggest a heartfelt apology that your actions is not your belief..miles Miles, Leaving a letter out of the name of God or the word Christian means nothing. What's that word again...there's this word that seems to apply to your behavior of lecturing anyone of leaving a letter out of a word...oh what is it, it's on the tip of my tongue...

oldsage Joined Thu 09/14/06 Posts: 18043	Thu 06/12/08 05:40 AM
The manner that is being used to discuss God & religion, is rather sick. Makes me wonder how some folks can be so rude & vulgar. No wonder these threads get lock'd & deleted. Let's clean up the language & stop the attacks; PLEASE. Mod Don

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Thu 06/12/08 06:21 AM
In essense althought many Christians believe that the bible is the foundation of Christianity many of us believe that CHRIST is the foundation of Christianity and that a true Christian should follow the teachings of Christ rather than the bible. Although this could be seen as a paradox it is completely accurate when one considers what a Christian is supposed to be, and that it clarifies if there is a bible passage that contradicts the teachings of Christ that the teachings of Christ should be considered to hold precidence. Jesus taught using the Tanakh (Old Testament). I am unaware of any contradictions between what Jesus taught and the Old Testament. I failed to mention the OT in your quoted text. If you want a contradiction check the blood lineage of Jesus according the the gospels which contradict one another. Those are both new NT passages written during aproximately the same time. They were both included, both per the blind faith theory the word of God, and only one can be correct. This of course simply answers the contradiction part. So far as OT vs NT I thought the difference was obvious. Condensing concept in the OT prayer was "purified" and demonstrated by sacrifice and certain figures had personal relationships with God. In the NT sacrifice was abolished or transformed fromt Animals and physical offerings which are external to self sacrifice of effort and intent which is internal and more personal. At the close of the NT the book was "closed" more or less closing man's relationship with God so to speak so that religious law was set without change for the next 1500 years (aproximately). No Versus to quote, no authority to list, this is my understanding of the transformation of the followship of the Hebrew god and I am ignoring the RCC's (or any other demonimations) mucking around with religious law within it's ranks because these are organizational rather than all inclusive. Matthew lists Jesus' geneology on his father's line, while Luke listed Jesus' geneology on his mother's side. We know this for several reasons. Matthew lists Joseph's father as "Jacob", while Luke lists Joseph's father as "Heli". Birth records show that a "Mary" was born to "Heli" around the time that Mary (Jesus' mother) would have to have been born. It appears that Heli had no male heirs to take on his name, so he adopted Joseph using the Zerubbabel tradition. Joseph's bloodline was cursed, as no son of "Jechoniah" could ever be king of Israel, but Mary's bloodline, while royal also, split away from Joseph's and she was not a decendant of Jechoniah. Notice that in Matthew 1, it does not say "Joseph the father of Jesus"...no, it says "and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." It shows that Jesus' mother was married to Joseph, not that Jesus was a son of Joseph. Now look at Luke 3, "He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph", clearly implying that people thought Jesus was Joseph's son, but he wasn't. In context (the context being reading the geneologies and also knowing the history of Jechoniah and Zerubbabel) there is no contradiction. correct spider, i would not use the bloodlines for arguement against the bible.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Thu 06/12/08 06:22 AM Edited by Spidercmb on Thu 06/12/08 06:48 AM
Mush-a ring dum-a do dum-a da

wouldee Joined Sun 10/07/07 Posts: 5335	Thu 06/12/08 06:34 AM
The manner that is being used to discuss God & religion, is rather sick. Makes me wonder how some folks can be so rude & vulgar. No wonder these threads get lock'd & deleted. Let's clean up the language & stop the attacks; PLEASE. Mod Don I agree. there is no rejoicing in love where love is absent.

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Thu 06/12/08 07:21 AM
that's why we all have to be more patient with one another and understand that we are all human and we will always err we also need to take better care of ourselves, drink water, eat nutritious food and take plenty of breaks so people don't get too upset & lose their cool... we are all human & make mistakes...no one is exempt I know you are a good Man , Spider...God Bless You

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Thu 06/12/08 09:53 AM
Spider. i could care less who u are talking to. but leaving out a letter of a foul froward word of disgust means nothing. it is the same as saying it in the anger you are showing. the sermon on the mount explains this very well and i am sure that you do not want that type of reputation as a believer. i would suggest a heartfelt apology that your actions is not your belief..miles Miles, Leaving a letter out of the name of God or the word Christian means nothing. What's that word again...there's this word that seems to apply to your behavior of lecturing anyone of leaving a letter out of a word...oh what is it, it's on the tip of my tongue... Well i guess u did some editing last night. I can not find the comments u made or words. Yes i put a dash is words that i do not want to write and i definately will not let them out of my mouth. that is only to let u see what i am saying that u will understand. it is a shame you are so proud that you prefer to attach me instead is right and apologizing to Blackbird. your proud stance and look tells me to leave u be.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Thu 06/12/08 09:56 AM
Well i guess u did some editing last night. I can not find the comments u made or words. Yes i put a dash is words that i do not want to write and i definately will not let them out of my mouth. that is only to let u see what i am saying that u will understand. it is a shame you are so proud that you prefer to attach me instead is right and apologizing to Blackbird. your proud stance and look tells me to leave u be. I edited one post and that one was made this morning and contained no profanity. Why do you type "Chr-stian" instead of "Christian"? Is the word holy?

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Thu 06/12/08 10:29 AM
!!! !!!

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Thu 06/12/08 10:34 AM
that's why we all have to be more patient with one another and understand that we are all human and we will always err we also need to take better care of ourselves, drink water, eat nutritious food and take plenty of breaks so people don't get too upset & lose their cool... we are all human & make mistakes...no one is exempt I know you are a good Man , Spider...God Bless You according to your bible there is no none good but god?? - donot call man good - even jesus recognized man's heart was continously evil.

Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Thu 06/12/08 10:38 AM
I failed to mention the OT in your quoted text. If you want a contradiction check the blood lineage of Jesus according the the gospels which contradict one another. Those are both new NT passages written during aproximately the same time. They were both included, both per the blind faith theory the word of God, and only one can be correct. This of course simply answers the contradiction part. Perhaps the reason you failed to mention this is because you are incorrect in your assumption that the passages contradict one another. Had you correctly followed exegesis - you would have discovered that the geneologies represent Mary in one Gospel, and Joseph in the other. The reason for this difference is to inform the intended audience the bloodline leading back to David that would be best understood, which was the purpose for the lineage being listed in the first place.

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Thu 06/12/08 10:45 AM Edited by Rapunzel on Thu 06/12/08 10:49 AM
that's why we all have to be more patient with one another and understand that we are all human and we will always err we also need to take better care of ourselves, drink water, eat nutritious food and take plenty of breaks so people don't get too upset & lose their cool... we are all human & make mistakes...no one is exempt I know you are a good Man , Spider...God Bless You according to your bible there is no none good but god?? - donot call man good - even jesus recognized man's heart was continously evil. yes, tribo... However we are daily renewed ~ by the cleansing of our sins... that which was scarlet shall be made white as snow... Christ shall take our sins & throw them into the sea of Forgetfulness and cast them as far as the East is from the West

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Thu 06/12/08 10:48 AM
no quite the oppisite

Blackbird Joined Fri 12/22/06 Posts: 202	Thu 06/12/08 10:48 AM
I failed to mention the OT in your quoted text. If you want a contradiction check the blood lineage of Jesus according the the gospels which contradict one another. Those are both new NT passages written during aproximately the same time. They were both included, both per the blind faith theory the word of God, and only one can be correct. This of course simply answers the contradiction part. Perhaps the reason you failed to mention this is because you are incorrect in your assumption that the passages contradict one another. Had you correctly followed exegesis - you would have discovered that the geneologies represent Mary in one Gospel, and Joseph in the other. The reason for this difference is to inform the intended audience the bloodline leading back to David that would be best understood, which was the purpose for the lineage being listed in the first place. Yes, Tribo pointed that out earlier and I am human and I do make mistakes at times. It was far from being my original point thought, which was burried with the "debate".

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Thu 06/12/08 08:48 PM
that's why we all have to be more patient with one another and understand that we are all human and we will always err we also need to take better care of ourselves, drink water, eat nutritious food and take plenty of breaks so people don't get too upset & lose their cool... we are all human & make mistakes...no one is exempt I know you are a good Man , Spider...God Bless You according to your bible there is no none good but god?? - donot call man good - even jesus recognized man's heart was continously evil. yes, tribo... However we are daily renewed ~ by the cleansing of our sins... that which was scarlet shall be made white as snow... Christ shall take our sins & throw them into the sea of Forgetfulness and cast them as far as the East is from the West tribo: i'm well aware of your belief's R, but even Jesus said not to call "HIM" good that no one but the father was good - correct?

Quikstepper Joined Mon 04/28/08 Posts: 2998	Thu 06/12/08 09:15 PM
Can someone answer this question? Who is the enemies of the Chrisians, (specifically the Evangelical Christians)and why ??? The athiests, agnostics, pagans, wiccans, panthiests, and on and on. They hate Jesus Christ and the Lord God Almighty. They prefer the spirit of satan. this is just a proof of what is known as CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISM. for people like this individual the whole christianity suffers. If the whole christianity were like this, I promise to each one of you that I would not be a christian at all. Awww... It looks like I struck a nerve.... The truth hurts...liars & thieves. For everyone else it means safety. Oh well....