Fair enought Spider, I will do that later. I would have given better examples here but I am at work currently and only have time for shorter responses. Didn't mean to shotgun that one.

Yes, I'm a christian, and I've read in the bible where the writers (which as I've read on here so many times are infallible) refer to an evil spirit of the Lord. God created all things, ergo he also created evil, not just good. He is supposedly omnipitant, which means he knew the end result of what he was about to create. According to our dogma, all of gods creations are good, but he created the angels, and Lucifer and demons as well, all creation flows from god.

While in the garden, Adam and Eve lived with sin all around them. The tree was the tree of KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. It wasn't the tree of evil. It was all good before we ate of that, we just didn't recognize the difference. So, straight logic dictates that our god also has an evil side, hmm just like some of those he created in his image. Literal interpreters, got to love the blinders.

My interpretation was spot on, reread your Exodus, it is a direct quote (not a chapter verse quoter, sorry) "and God repented." If he repented, he was at fault or wrong, ergo not perfect.

My interpretation was spot on, reread your Exodus, it is a direct quote (not a chapter verse quoter, sorry) "and God repented." If he repented, he was at fault or wrong, ergo not perfect.

Rapunzel the day you isolate someone or make them feel like they don't belong, I'll eat the hat of the person with the sweatiest brow you know.

If I read it right he wasn't calling God Evil, He was saying God has evil in him. The two concepts are completely different. Although you have to admit that some of the things the old testament God did were pretty mean and vindictive for an all loving, all peaceful God. In order to have a perfect being it has to have balance and part of that is a balance between Good and Evil. That is why if people truly were made in Gods image they have the free will to choose good actions or evil actions.

I must have missed something, did you say we hate christians, where I come from we don,t hate people for their religion, even if it is a new one like christianity. That is trying to spred around the world in order to draw the last pennies and dimes from the poor under educated people.

When the first europeons sailed to the new world they brought with them soldiers to fight off the heathens. Steal the land from them is more like it. The first winter they broke into the indians food storage, and stoled all the food. Seeing this the indians figured those people must really be hungery and the took them more food. Those dirty savages.

Another real christian act was letting there soldiers go out to the native villages and steal young girls. Then when the girls ended up pregnent or diseased they would drive them out of their forts, and go steal some more.

Another christian act, the smallpox blankets. 600,000 Tuscarora Indians died from that filthy disease.

Congress passed a bill sending the Indians to Reservations "they are not Christians so the must be cared for as if they are children".

There are still Indians in the care of this Christian run government that still don't have electricity.

The very first Homa Indian to graduate from High School graduated in 1975. There were no schools available.

The next big move I see from the christians is to put the Iraqi's on Reservations and care for them, after all they are not christians.

Yes, I'm a christian, and I've read in the bible where the writers (which as I've read on here so many times are infallible) refer to an evil spirit of the Lord. God created all things, ergo he also created evil, not just good. He is supposedly omnipitant, which means he knew the end result of what he was about to create. According to our dogma, all of gods creations are good, but he created the angels, and Lucifer and demons as well, all creation flows from god.

While in the garden, Adam and Eve lived with sin all around them. The tree was the tree of KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. It wasn't the tree of evil. It was all good before we ate of that, we just didn't recognize the difference. So, straight logic dictates that our god also has an evil side, hmm just like some of those he created in his image. Literal interpreters, got to love the blinders.

My interpretation was spot on, reread your Exodus, it is a direct quote (not a chapter verse quoter, sorry) "and God repented." If he repented, he was at fault or wrong, ergo not perfect.

I am once again amazed at the callousness on both sides of this arguement, but at least the atheist and pagans are nice about it. You know why christians are seemingly persecuted everywhere? Because they have no tolerance for other religions, just like the muslims are perceived as being.

Never mind that Jesus himself warned every christian that they would be persecuted everywhere. That is almost always ignored.

Enemies of christians were listed here. We are christians, we are supposed to know no enemies. God is supposed to take care of our enemies, we are to set our table for them (that means invite them to your home).

God is not perfect. Moses caused him to repent after he led the Israelites out of Egypt. As I recall, he was going to slay all the Israelites after they made the golden calf, Moses chastised god saying "how will you look before Egypt and their gods if you lead your people to freedom only to kill them in the desert?" God also has evil in him, so there is no Satan, Satan is just a fallen angel, you might remember him as Lucifer, the Morning Star. In Samuel, it says "and an evil spirit of the Lord moved over Saul." It doesn't say satan, the devil, beelzebub, or any of the direct names of old Lou in there it says an evil spirit from the Lord. So before you think your god is all flowers and roses, read your book again.

Jesus also spoke in parables, always. He did not intend for everyone to "follow him," as an icon. That violates commandment #1, place no gods before me. What he meant, or was misinterpreted about, was follow my example, live as I do (did), and you will be just before god's throne when judgement comes.

Acceptance, tolerance, understanding, compassion, patience, humility, these are the traits of a christian. And are even preached against in churches. I heard a minister derail liberalism and talk about how we need to fight against liberals. The definition of liberal contains 3 of the afor mentioned traits. I've been to churches that have "gift shops." If that's not money trading in the temple I don't know what is. So before we christians get on our high and mighty horse and condemn our pagan, wiccan, and pantheiest brothers and sisters (oh, by the way, just because they don't believe doesn't mean they aren't your brothers and sisters in god's eyes), we might want to shore up our own houses first.

What the original premise of this arguement was is that we as a constituency to our own beliefs, have let the powerful of the church influence away from god's teachings. It was correct. Robertson, Falwell, even the Rev. Al Sharpton have all been leading their flocks astray. Those that believe in the end times might remember that we were warned of charletons masqarading as teachers of the faith, and might consider the person they are getting their preaching from.

I live in Kansas, I got that nut case in Topeka (Phelps) that pickets funerals of servicemen and women whose caskets are returned from Iraq. Very christian in the way he says "god killed them because he hates America" for allowing homosexuals to have a voice in society. These are the voices of christianity that get heard. The media deride the fakes, and we as christians don't stand up against their venomous speeches, making us just as guilty as non-believing sections of society that do, and then have the gall to complain that we are being persecuted.

Ummm... Repent means to turn away from, reverse direction as it were. It is not implicit in it's definition that what is turned away from must be evil.

So the complete genocide of an entire cutlture, would not be inherently evil. Check. I stand corrected.

This though has been what he has always wanted.

Yesterday Today and Tommorrow..


Ps 51:14-17

14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O Elohim,
The El of my salvation,
And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
15 O Yahweh, open my lips,
And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of Yahweh are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart —
These, O Elohim, You will not despise.
NKJV

Think Moses fit this in his pleadings? blessings...Miles

God pulled the Israelites out of slavery. Parted the Red Sea so that they could cross safely. Led them through the desert. And then the Israelites decided to worship an idol. God's law forbid any such worship. God is the ruler, God makes the laws. You don't have to agree with the laws, but you can't change them. Evil is anything that is against God's laws. God decided that the punishment for breaking the law is death. Therefore (like it or not) executing all of the Israelites would have been an appropriate punishment.

Oh wow. You believe God created evil? Evil isn't a thing, it is an action. Unless God dictates the actions of every being in the Universe, God isn't evil. God created a perfect angel (his name wasn't Lucifer...I can't believe that anyone still believes that crap), but the angel DECIDED on his OWN to go against God. That was the first evil act. You need to get yourself straight, because the Bible is very clear that God is not evil and does not do evil and does not tempt anyone to evil.



Strawman fallacy. I said nothing about God repenting, I said that Moses didn't Chastise God. Exodus 32:11 says that Moses "pleaded" (begged) God to spare the Israelites.

The word used to describe God "repenting" of destroying the Israelites was "nacham" in the Niphal tense, so "repent" meant "Feel sorry for". Literally, God pitied the Israelites.

Actually, the Israelites made that statue while Moses was getting the laws made, it was upon his return that the Israelites learned that they had violated a law (because it hadn't been created yet) so no, it would not be justified. Evil is not anything that breaks god's law.

Evil is determined by man, thru his "knowledge of good and evil." God doesn't know or recognize evil, hence the definition of hell, which is being removed from the word of god (or taken to a place in which god does not exist). Why do you suppose they tell you if your name is written into the book of life Christ will say before the father "I know him." Because he does not recognize evil, therefore, he will not know those that live in evil ways.

"Faith:

is the blessed assurance of things hoped for,

the evidence of things not seen with human eyes..."