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| Topic: How Many? - But WHY? | |
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It is accurate however to say that the bible is the oldest mass produced Volume although it's authenticity was called into question rather than people from other faiths, but by the church that propogated it...long story nothing against Christianity here just a problem with RCC methods. What made the Bible Significant? The Guttenberg Press. False statements lead to false revelation, and myth that can blow up in your face. The Bible is one of the most significant books outside of Faith, because it was so loved that someone mass printed it as the first mass printed Volume. Actually in light of recent discussions or problems with recent discussions for those Christians still interested and reading I have a challenge for you. Since the Bible is such an icon of the Christian faith followed, maybe it's a good time for anyone who has not done so to guinely study the history of the bible, how it was pieced together, propogated, and even if you don't remember take a look at the number of versions. Since it's your spiritual herritage it may make for an interesting history lesson for some of you. I am willing to do that. Where do you suggest I start? i'm sure BB has exact info but i know it is found in many bibles at the beginnig as well maybe not in as much depth but it "use" to be there and another book i cannot remember the name of on the bible and curch history - butr im sure BB will know. my 11/2 cents 
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Eljay wrote and I quote: "...Claiming to be a Christian does not bring one closer to God, nor does it get one to heaven. Christianity does not save anyone - Jesus does. It is only through Jesus that one gets to the heaven of scripture...." EXACTLY. Thank You ,Eljay . TRIBO: MS - prove it? prove that believing in jesus get's you to the heaven of scriptures? and which heaven paul mention's three? don't pull out bible verses - GIVE ME PROOF!! - MS, ELJAY, spider, - anyone - ""Proof""!! actual physical proof that i can comprehend with my senses!!! pray to your jesus that he physically appear before me and reveal himself to me - just like your bible says "doubting Thomas" had the pleasure to do!! he did not believe in his ressurection - yet the bible say's the lord came to him and the others in the flesh? so pray to your jesus to do the same for me that i might believe!! and while he's here ask him to stay and have pics taken to show himself as the son of god and do miracles and healings, have him prove himself!! or if you can't do that then have your god come and prove himself!!! suspending "your" god given ability to reason and use the common sense given to you and taking something on "faith" and that alone is no more than historical cults from time immemorial have done, none could ever produce a living god to show his reality to man. What good would physical proof do for you Tribo? You'd merely explain it away. The mere fact that God controls every breath you take isn't enough for you. Well - how about we conduct a little experiment. You sit in a chair and WILL yourself to stop breathing. Hold your breath for an hour. That should be easy for someone of your intelligence to do. Take a deep breath and hold it. If you can do that - hold your breath for an hour, I'll regain my "common sense and reason" and give up my faith in God. Let me know how you did. |
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Tribo;
RCC - Roman Catholic Church |
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Tribo; RCC - Roman Catholic Church HAHAHA - MY BAD- CONCIDERING I WAS A CATHOLIC - HAHAHAHAHA THNX ejay |
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Tribo; RCC - Roman Catholic Church HAHAHA - MY BAD- CONCIDERING I WAS A CATHOLIC - HAHAHAHAHA THNX ejay It was the only thing that made sense. However, I often find it odd that when church History is brought up, only RCC is deemed acceptable. Rather odd for a religion that determined that Peter was the 1st pope long after he was dead. 
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Edited by
tribo
on
Thu 06/12/08 02:12 PM
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ejay
What good would physical proof do for you Tribo? You'd merely explain it away. The mere fact that God controls every breath you take isn't enough for you. Well - how about we conduct a little experiment. You sit in a chair and WILL yourself to stop breathing. Hold your breath for an hour. That should be easy for someone of your intelligence to do. Take a deep breath and hold it. If you can do that - hold your breath for an hour, I'll regain my "common sense and reason" and give up my faith in God. Let me know how you did. HMMMM I STATE REASON, CORE LOGIC, COMMON SENSE - YOU RESPOND "Will" I WOULD NO MORE TRY TO EXPLAIN YOUR GOD AWAY ON SUCH A TEST, YOUR TEST IS STATEING THAT "INTELLIGENCE" EQUATES WITH WILL AND WILL EQUATES WITH COMMON SENSE I GUESS - YOUR POINT IS NOT REASONALBLE, NOR PROOF OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN LACK OF LOGICAL THINKING. IF "ANY GOD" WILL PROVE TO ME TO BE REAL THEN I WILL ACCEPT THAT AS LONG AS THEIR IS SENSORY EVIDENCE SUCH AS YOUR GOD SUPPOSEDLY GAVE IN THE BOOK. ALL I ASK IS HE OR ANYOTHER CLAIMING TO BE GOD'S OR HIS SON OR PROTOGE' SHOW HIMSELF - LET ME SEE - LET ME TOUCH - LET ME HEAR HIM PERSONALLY - NEITHER YOUR OR ANYONE ELSE'S GOD CAN DO THAT CORRECT? - THEN YOUR POINT IS MUTE ABOUT YOUR EXTENDED BELIEF'S TILL IT HAPPENS.YOU ARGUE FROM WITHIN NOT FROM A CORE CENTRAL TRUTH. FAITH IS NOT KNOWING - FAITH IS JUST ACCEPTING SOMETHING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND AS "truth" |
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Tribo; RCC - Roman Catholic Church HAHAHA - MY BAD- CONCIDERING I WAS A CATHOLIC - HAHAHAHAHA THNX ejay It was the only thing that made sense. However, I often find it odd that when church History is brought up, only RCC is deemed acceptable. Rather odd for a religion that determined that Peter was the 1st pope long after he was dead.
CANT ARGUE WITH THAT 
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Thu 06/12/08 02:33 PM
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Tribo......
When you drive your car to work everyday, and have to make sudden stops along the way .... you have faith to believe your brakes will work each time. Right Tribo? Now Tribo... that kind of faith, to believe your brakes will work , did not require or bring about a spiritual change in you. However..... Tribo..WHEN you finally have FAITH to BELIEVE in Jesus as Lord one day.....quess what Tribo.... A Spirital BIRTH WILL ALSO TAKE PLACE IN YOU..... meaning... your spirit will become born again... meaning..... it will NOT be the same kind of faith you have when you believe your brakes will work ,each time you step on them!!! Cause FAITH in JESUS is you doing your part.... BUT Tribo?? GOD ALSO does HIS part too !!!! See..... when you take that step of FAITH BELIEVING, GOD also TAKES A STEP...and STEPS RIGHT IN AND GIVES YOU a BORN AGAIN SPIRIT!! THAT'S THE PROOF GOD GIVES YOU , TO LET YOU KNOW THAT YOU KNOW ,THAT THIS BECOMING BORN AGAIN IS REAL!! Hey Tribo....Believe me...... you will KNOW when your spirit is born again!! NO DOUBTS!! Meaning you WON'T be left wondering and guessing anymore!! Also Tribo....AFTERWARDS, YOU WILL SEE THE EVIDENCE OF A CHANGED LIFE!! You will see the FRUITS of CHANGE in your life!! Tribo..IF Jesus were to stand before you right now, you STILL would NOT believe...cause you would sooner or later, "reason " away the experience ,as some delusion you were having!! Point is.....You have to have FAITH to BELIEVE..and when yuo DO? God will step in and give you a BRAND SPANKIN NEW SPIRIT IN YOU!!! BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE FAITH FIRST..TO SEE THE PROOF FOR YOURSELF!! 
And Tribo? FAITH CANNOT BE FORCED..it HAS TO COME ON ITS OWN..IN ITS OWN TIME....AND IT WILL COME ONE DAY....AND GOD KNOWS THE DAY. ONE DAY YOU WILL JUST HAVE FAITH TO BELIEVE.....IT WILL COME......AND IT WILL BE SO WONDERFUL AND SO BEAUTIFUL........AND EVERYTHING WILL FINALLY MAKE SENSE TO YOU , TRIBO..... 
BUT UNTIL THEN ,YOU SIMPLY WON'T BELIEVE, TRIBO ..AND THE BIBLE AND JESUS IS JUST NOT GONNA MAKE SENSE.....AND ALL THAT IS QUITE UNDERSTANDABLE.
BUT THE DAY WILL COME, TRIBO...WHEN YOU WILL HAVE FAITH TO BELIEVE ....JUST LIKE THAT DAY FINALLY CAME ,FOR ALL US CHRISTIANS.
BE BLESSED NOW ,TRIBO....
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Tribo......
When you drive your car to work everyday, and have to make sudden stops along the way .... you have faith to believe your brakes will work each time. Right Tribo? yes i have stated that very thing myself you know that Now Tribo... that kind of faith, to believe your brakes will work , did not require or bring about a spiritual change in you of course not - there is nothing spiritual about it hahaha However..... Tribo..WHEN you finally have FAITH to Believe in Jesus as Lord one day.....quess what Tribo.... A Spirital BIRTH WILL ALSO TAKES PLACE IN YOU..meaning...your spirit will become born again...meaning it will NOT be the same kind of faith you have when you believe your brakes will work ,each time you step on them!!! Cause FAITH in JESUS is you doing your part..BUT Tribo?? GOD ALSO does HIS part too !!!! See..... when you take that step of FAITH BELIEVING, GOD STEPS IN AND GIVES YOU a BORN AGAIN SPIRIT!! THAT'S THE PROOF ,THAT THIS BECOMING BORN AGAIN IS REAL!! Hey Tribo....Believe me...... you will KNOW when your spirit is born again!! NO DOUBTS!! Meaning you WON'T be left wondering and guessing anymore!! Also Tribo....AFTERWARDS, YOU WILL SEE THE EVIDENCE OF A CHANGED LIFE!! You will see the FRUITS of CHANGE in your life!! been there - tried it - you cant except something on faith - suspend your resoning on any point - religious or non- and expect to continue or try this giving up and letting god - does not work - i know you "think" it does, i know you "believe it does - but your playing a game with your own mind and will - i wil say this - i believe you will always believe in your belief's - however wrong you may be - and for - the same - i think someone else posted something like this - either way it hold senseability. but proves nothing - i'm sure of this - one day we will all know the core truth - but not while in this fleshly form. until then - as i say, "without evidence of a bieng, or a son of a bieng not of this universe comes and appears there is no one who can convince me of the first 2 chapter's of genesis as being how the world / universe came to be all after that is a mute point i would think that this would be a point in any feild of investigation of anything - but for you and other's it does not seem to apply?? do you also have the "faith" - the snake handlers have in the ozarks to takeup serpents in the name of jesus?? they to believe in a much more visible physical way there "FAITH" in god's words that they hold as truth's hmmmm of course not you will say they are taking something meant to be symbolic as literal correct? or maybe i'm wrong maybe you and spider and jay will show mw your faith by doing so since i was asked to hold my breath for an hour - hahahaha, will you walk into a feiry furnace and through"faith comeout unscathed? or is present day faith only a word you accept in the calmness of a leisurely life we have hear and now? no - i don't want to hear of "others doing missionary work - i'm talking to you here and now - no i dont want to hear you calling is not of that nature for your god could call you and has to do all when there is need - no you cannot show me your "deep faith as even the snake handlers could - im sorry dear morning star but but faith is a static condition for the bulk of believers. and those who have real faith dont live long.
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ejay What good would physical proof do for you Tribo? You'd merely explain it away. The mere fact that God controls every breath you take isn't enough for you. Well - how about we conduct a little experiment. You sit in a chair and WILL yourself to stop breathing. Hold your breath for an hour. That should be easy for someone of your intelligence to do. Take a deep breath and hold it. If you can do that - hold your breath for an hour, I'll regain my "common sense and reason" and give up my faith in God. Let me know how you did. HMMMM I STATE REASON, CORE LOGIC, COMMON SENSE - YOU RESPOND "Will" I WOULD NO MORE TRY TO EXPLAIN YOUR GOD AWAY ON SUCH A TEST, YOUR TEST IS STATEING THAT "INTELLIGENCE" EQUATES WITH WILL AND WILL EQUATES WITH COMMON SENSE I GUESS - YOUR POINT IS NOT REASONALBLE, NOR PROOF OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN LACK OF LOGICAL THINKING. IF "ANY GOD" WILL PROVE TO ME TO BE REAL THEN I WILL ACCEPT THAT AS LONG AS THEIR IS SENSORY EVIDENCE SUCH AS YOUR GOD SUPPOSEDLY GAVE IN THE BOOK. ALL I ASK IS HE OR ANYOTHER CLAIMING TO BE GOD'S OR HIS SON OR PROTOGE' SHOW HIMSELF - LET ME SEE - LET ME TOUCH - LET ME HEAR HIM PERSONALLY - NEITHER YOUR OR ANYONE ELSE'S GOD CAN DO THAT CORRECT? - THEN YOUR POINT IS MUTE ABOUT YOUR EXTENDED BELIEF'S TILL IT HAPPENS.YOU ARGUE FROM WITHIN NOT FROM A CORE CENTRAL TRUTH. FAITH IS NOT KNOWING - FAITH IS JUST ACCEPTING SOMETHING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND AS "truth" So I take it you couldn't hold your breath for an hour or stop breathing. But on a more serious note - I have walked this earth for over 50 years, and the events that I have experienced in my life are more than enough proof for me - enough so that I could fill a book larger than the bible itself. But that is God coming into my life proving He exists. What would be the point of my expressing any of it to you when you were not there to experience it. The problem I see with your needing proof - is that you expect it on your schedule. You ask for proof and expect God to supply it for you moments after you request it. Would you know God if He appeared before you? How do you know you haven't seen Him yet? Anyway... It's too bad that God has not shown Himself to you, for I know for myself how much better my life has been with Him a part of it, than it ever was when I was not seeking Him. |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Thu 06/12/08 03:46 PM
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So I take it you couldn't hold your breath for an hour or stop breathing.
But on a more serious note - I have walked this earth for over 50 years, and the events that I have experienced in my life are more than enough proof for me - enough so that I could fill a book larger than the bible itself. But that is God coming into my life proving He exists. What would be the point of my expressing any of it to you when you were not there to experience it. The problem I see with your needing proof - is that you expect it on your schedule. You ask for proof and expect God to supply it for you moments after you request it. Would you know God if He appeared before you? How do you know you haven't seen Him yet? Anyway... It's too bad that God has not shown Himself to you, for I know for myself how much better my life has been with Him a part of it, than it ever was when I was not seeking Him tribo i've asked for this for over 3 decades and still nothing - sorry ejay - i wont disrespect what you believe it will serve no purpose - i relinquish the posting back to the other's - if nothing else it helps you to understand where i am. i really dont like argueing and no i dont consider this argueing - but i know that it could lead to that- so i bid you good bye on this subjcet of faith vs core logic - i'll aplly it else where - hahahaha - you to MS - i know you mean well
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tribo: here just a problem with RCC methods - ????? forgive my ignorance BB - not familiar with RCC - ??? RCC is the Roman catholic Church which controlled Christianity, the bible, and the evolution of Christianity for centuries. when I say "the church" in the historical sense this is usually what I mean as a generalization. |
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already done that long time ago thoughif i was interested enoug i would brush up - but i'm not - you are reffering to all the bibles like the bishop's bible and forerunners of the KJV correct? If someone has already done it then they at least have a general idea assuming they did it from a fair perspective rather than a propoganda perspective. Researching a bible in the interest of proving or disproving accuracy is pointless. Researching the bible objectively to understand it's full history and creation is by far a better practice. So far as different versions there are SO many...To understand what the bible is one has to read quite a bit about it's history from an objective point of view, so which websites, books, or sources one chooses can be precarious I recommend reading a mix of them to make sure one gets the truth rather than propoganda good or bad. For true understanding of the story of Jesus Christ and his life, times, and teachings I recommend a person read a good version of the bible, (I personally recommend people avoid the KJV since there is documented historical proof that it was doctored and inaccurate and simple comparsisons of it to other versions demonstrate this)as well as outside texts including additional gospels from other disciples and followers written in those times. Regardless of whether the offical church denounces or embraces these texts they all have the same validity from a period in time as views or stories. Each person must make their own choice about what they embrace or reject as matching what they believe or feel in their heart. So far as catagorizing or labeling particular texts as appropriate or not I believe it's folly unless there is historical and scientific proof other than opposing texts disproving them. So far as why I think about this and why I encourage people to fully research everything...I believe it is the personal duty of every Christian that follows the bible as a text, and anyone else who wishes to discuss the life and times of Jesus or the teachings in the bible to do what they can to HONESTLY research the reality of the bible and the concepts in it without prejudice. |
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i'm sure BB has exact info but i know it is found in many bibles at the beginnig as well maybe not in as much depth but it "use" to be there and another book i cannot remember the name of on the bible and curch history - butr im sure BB will know. my 11/2 cents
Sorry Tribo I'm failing here I lack any cataloged information about my research because I never thought anyone would care what I found. I had someone from these lists get really angry with me because I gave them information that would lead them to what I was talking about without actually providing texts by name and date ect ect ect as if I had an instant catalog list next to me... There are a ton of books out there about it all...but I am unsure what they are I only know that Pro Christian or Anti Christian sites are biased and one needs a true historical view for accuracy. |
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i'm sure BB has exact info but i know it is found in many bibles at the beginnig as well maybe not in as much depth but it "use" to be there and another book i cannot remember the name of on the bible and curch history - butr im sure BB will know. my 11/2 cents
Sorry Tribo I'm failing here I lack any cataloged information about my research because I never thought anyone would care what I found. I had someone from these lists get really angry with me because I gave them information that would lead them to what I was talking about without actually providing texts by name and date ect ect ect as if I had an instant catalog list next to me... There are a ton of books out there about it all...but I am unsure what they are I only know that Pro Christian or Anti Christian sites are biased and one needs a true historical view for accuracy. it'sok BB - i dont have any either i got rid of all that stuff over 2 decades ago - until i jioned here i have never had any reason to even desire to have them so as you say they will have to find ontheir own 
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All research I have done on this topic has been from biased sources. Unbiased material is very difficult to find. Almost EVERYBODY has their own personal agenda. When doing research people have a tendancy to find information to back up the opinion they already have.
Does anyone out there have an unbiased source of information, other than the bible which of course would be biased, to help me start my "History of the Bible" research? |
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If so, feel free to post but also please email it to me so I don't loose it in the thread.
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All research I have done on this topic has been from biased sources. Unbiased material is very difficult to find. Almost EVERYBODY has their own personal agenda. When doing research people have a tendancy to find information to back up the opinion they already have. Does anyone out there have an unbiased source of information, other than the bible which of course would be biased, to help me start my "History of the Bible" research? there are no unbiased histories ancient or new - remember man has written them all
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All research I have done on this topic has been from biased sources. Unbiased material is very difficult to find. Almost EVERYBODY has their own personal agenda. When doing research people have a tendancy to find information to back up the opinion they already have. Does anyone out there have an unbiased source of information, other than the bible which of course would be biased, to help me start my "History of the Bible" research? there are no unbiased histories ancient or new - remember man has written them all
That was my point.
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All research I have done on this topic has been from biased sources. Unbiased material is very difficult to find. Almost EVERYBODY has their own personal agenda. When doing research people have a tendancy to find information to back up the opinion they already have. Does anyone out there have an unbiased source of information, other than the bible which of course would be biased, to help me start my "History of the Bible" research? there are no unbiased histories ancient or new - remember man has written them all
That was my point.
POINT WELL TAKEN - 
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