I am a huge supporter of gay rights. But this statement really scares me. Everybody should be fighting to get back what these idiots have taken away.



(I don't know if this has been pointed out but a majority of people under the age of 40 think that Gay marriage is fine. Just like the last generation would have never elected a black president, the future generation will not think anything of this issue. The fight is already won)

U can say that again Tribo. I wonder if i could count how many freedoms we have lost. Shalom..Miles

Rabbit the Patriot act is #1.Blessings..Miles

you really think that?!?!


I would have pegged you for someone scared of a Gov't with too much power.

On rereading this I think that is what you are saying OOPS...

really .. I take NAFTA as a close 2nd.. Power/ money is the name of the game Rabbitt Shalom..Miles

i do not believe in name calling or judging...to each thier own is how i see it. i respect everyone's views on issues.

i also do not try to detour someone's beliefs...

who am i to say what is right and wrong? who am i to judge?

I really thought you were a lot smarter than that.

Is this judging? Or pointing out a fault?

John 8:10-11
"Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?"

11 She said, "No one, Master."

And Yahshua said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more ."
NKJV

Is Judging and condemning 2 different things? Blessings..Miles

JB

Do you believe the Patriot act is for our own good?...Miles

i think we all have faults...pointing something out is one thing...if that is your belief, you have that right to express it. yes i agree with that, but no, we have no right to judge or condemn, that is not our job. JMO

Jb do u agree with this.....




USA PATRIOT Act and Executive Orders 1 Bill of Rights Defense Committee Bill of Rights Defense Committee 241 King Street, Suite 216, Northampton, MA 01060
E-mail: info@bordc.org; Web site: www.bordc.org A Guide to Provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act and Federal Executive Orders that threaten civil liberties by Nancy Talanian On October 26, 2001, President Bush signed into law the USA PATRIOT Act
(acronym for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate
Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism"). Passed hurriedly (many
Congressmen stated later they had not even had time to read the law) it creates
a new crime, "domestic terrorism," so broadly defined that it could
conceivably apply to acts of civil disobedience. The USA PATRIOT Act gives the FBI and the CIA greater rights to wiretap
phones, monitor e-mail, survey medical, financial and student records, and
break into homes and offices without prior notification. It creates a new crime
of domestic terrorism that is so broadly defined that it may be applied to
citizens acting legally to express their dissent. Under this Act and other
legislation, noncitizens are being deported or detained indefinitely without
judicial appeal. The dangers of the USA PATRIOT Act are augmented by a Bureau of Prisons
order allowing federal agents to abridge the attorney-client privilege by
eavesdropping on conversations between lawyers and their clients held in
federal custody. The Justice Department has also dismantled regulations
against COINTELPRO operations that were enacted following abuses of the
civil rights and peace movements of the 50's, 60's and 70's. The
Administration has ordered secret military tribunals for suspected terrorists.
In addition to being unfair and unnecessary, the U.S. threat of using military
tribunals increases the likelihood that U.S. citizens will be treated accordingly
overseas, and decreases the likelihood that other governments will be willing
to extradite suspected terrorists or other parties wanted by the U.S. The web sites of the following organizations contain excellent analyses of the
provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act and various Federal Executive Orders
passed since September 11, 2001, that threaten civil liberties:
American Civil Liberties Union Electronic Frontier Foundation National Lawyers Guild People for the American Way
For ease of reference, this article summarizes how the USA PATRIOT Act
and certain Federal Executive Orders threaten and diminish the civil liberties
of U.S. citizens and noncitizens guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. The Bill of
Rights Defense Committee advocates the repeal of several sections of the Act
and Orders. For example, Congress showed its concern about certain sections
of the Act relating to enhanced surveillance by including in the Act Section
224, a "sunset" provision. We are also concerned about the powers for
enhanced surveillance, and so we call upon Congress to accelerate the sunset
provision so that the sections expire immediately rather than on December 31,
2005. We are concerned not only that the government is using its new powers but is
refusing to provide unclassified information on how it is using them under the
Freedom of Information Act, such as who is being detained. The refusal
prevents anyone, including citizens, the media, federal judges and members of
Congress, from knowing whether the powers have been or are being abused.
We believe the enhanced secrecy imposed by the administration makes it all
the more imperative that Congress repeal unwarranted and unnecessary
powers that provide little or no security but that clearly threaten our civil
liberties. What follows is a brief summary of some of the provisions of the USA
PATRIOT Act (USAPA) and Federal Executive orders that threaten our rights
as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. We recommend that these sections be
repealed. Copyright © 2002 by Nancy Talanian. All rights reserved. USA PATRIOT Act and Executive Orders 2 Bill of Rights Defense Committee Amendment I "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom
of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of
grievances."

Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused USAPA §802: Definition
of domestic terrorism. Creates a new crime, "domestic terrorism," which it defines
as "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the
criminal laws of the United States or of any State" and that
"appear to be intended … to influence the policy of a
government by intimidation or coercion." Broad definition may be used against
activists exercising their rights to assemble
and to dissent. USAPA §215: Access to
records and other items
under the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance
Act It permits the FBI director to seek records from bookstores
and libraries of books that a person suspected of terrorism
has purchased or read, or of his or her activities on a
library's computer. It also places a gag order to prevent
anyone from disclosing that they have been ordered to
produce such documents. Puts people at risk for exercising their free
speech rights to read, recommend, or
discuss a book or to write an email.

It also denies booksellers and library
personnel the free speech right to inform
anyone, including an attorney, that the FBI
has asked for someone's reading list. Attorney General's Edict
for Increased Surveillance
of Religious and Political
Organizations Rescinds anti-COINTELPRO regulations and authorizes the
FBI to monitor and surveil religious groups and political
groups without evidence of wrongdoing. Opens the door to COINTELPRO
operations, which were used in the past to
harass and to intimidate people who
disagreed with the government on issues
such as civil rights and the Vietnam War. USA PATRIOT Act and Executive Orders 3 Bill of Rights Defense Committee Amendment I continued
Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused Attorney General's
edict subverting
Freedom of
Information Act
requests Replaced Attorney General Janet Reno's previous guidelines
to agencies for fulfilling FOIA requests, which were to
make allowable discretionary disclosures except where there
was "demonstrable harm." Ashcroft assures agencies that
"decide to withhold records, in whole or in part," that they
"can be assured that the Department of Justice will defend
your decisions unless they lack a sound legal basis or
present an unwarranted risk of adverse impact on the ability
of other agencies to protect other important records.” Enables federal agencies to ignore many FOIA
requests for unclassified information. For
example, the administration has used this edict
to keep secret the names of detainees detained
for long periods, and to close their hearings. Attorney General's
approval of a Bureau
of Prisons emergency
surveillance order Removes requirement to obtain judicial permission before
listening in on conversations between prisoners (both prior
to trial and convicted) and their attorneys. Abridges freedom of speech. Amendment IV This amendment forms a substantial basis of the constitutional right to privacy.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not
be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the
place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused USAPA §203: Authority to
share criminal investigative
information. Permits law enforcement to give CIA sensitive
information gathered in criminal investigations,
including wiretaps and internet trapping. No court order is required. CIA may share
the information with other agencies and with
foreign governments. USA PATRIOT Act and Executive Orders 4 Bill of Rights Defense Committee Amendment IV continued
Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused USAPA §218: Foreign
intelligence information Amends Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
(FISA) by eliminating the need for the FBI to
show "probable cause" before conducting
secret searches or surveillance to obtain
evidence of a crime. Eliminates judicial supervision by giving the FBI the
ability to gather "foreign intelligence information"
without a warrant, unless the evidence sought is to be
used in a criminal proceeding. Former standard of
"foreign intelligence information" is weakened. 1 Agent may now say that foreign intelligence is relevant
or plays a part in the investigation. "Probable cause"
of a crime is no longer needed. USAPA §206: Roving
surveillance authority
under the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance
Act of 1978. (AKA "roving
wiretaps) Extends roving wiretap authority to
"intelligence" wiretaps authorized by the
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. These wiretaps may be authorized secretly. Expands
the power broadly by tapping any device used by a
terrorist suspect, regardless of who is using the device
at the time. USAPA §213: Authority
for delaying notice of the
execution of a warrant
(AKA "sneak and peek") Permits the government to search your home
with no one present and to delay notification
indefinitely. Court may authorize delayed
notification "if the court finds reasonable
cause to believe that providing immediate
notification … may have an adverse result." Unlike the former "knock and announce" policy, a
person whose home is to be searched cannot view the
warrant to make sure the address is correct or to make
sure that the agent adheres to the warrant's description
of what is to be searched. 1 The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Administration (FISA) issued an opinion in May 2002, which rejected the Justice Department's request for information sharing between counterintelligence and prosecutors because it would not effectively protect rights to privacy. USA PATRIOT Act and Executive Orders 5 Bill of Rights Defense Committee Amendment IV continued
Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused USAPA §215: Access to
records and other items
under the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance
Act Relaxes requirements and extends capabilities of FISA by
enabling anyone within the FBI down to rank of Assistant
Special Agent in Charge to request a court order for tangible
items sought for an investigation "to protect against
international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities."
The judge must give permission if an agent has so certified.

For example, it permits the FBI director to seek records from
bookstores and libraries of books that a person has purchased
or read, or of his or her activities on a library's computer. It
also places a gag order to prevent anyone from disclosing that
they have been ordered to produce such documents.

Eliminates the former test, that "there are specific and
articulable facts giving reason to believe that the person to
whom the records pertain is a foreign power or an agent of a
foreign power." No legitimate checks and balances; rather,
the judge becomes a 'rubber stamp'. No
privacy protection for U.S. citizens or
legal residents acting legally. Transfers
power from the judiciary to the executive
branch. USAPA §411:
Definitions relating to
terrorism Allows Secretary of State to designate any foreign or
domestic group that has engaged in a violent activity a
"terrorist organization." Lowers standard for terrorist designation;
possibility of groups that dissent
peacefully being so designated as the
result of an action by an agent
provocateur. USAPA §412:
Mandatory detention of
suspected terrorists;
habeas corpus; judicial
review Gives Attorney General broad powers to certify immigrants
as risks. Reduces previous standard from "probable
cause." USA PATRIOT Act and Executive Orders 6 Bill of Rights Defense Committee Amendment IV continued
Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused Attorney General's
Edict for Increased
Surveillance of
Religious and Political
Organizations Rescinds anti-COINTELPRO regulations and
authorizes the FBI to monitor and surveil
religious groups and political groups without
evidence of wrongdoing Reduces standard for surveillance from "probable
cause." Attorney General's
approval of a Bureau of
Prisons emergency
surveillance order Removes requirement to obtain judicial
permission before listening in on conversations
between prisoners (both prior to trial and
convicted) and their attorneys. Constitutes "unreasonable searches" without the
necessity to meet the standard of "probable cause." Attorney General's TIPS
program Sets up a system for up to 2 million Americans,
more than were involved in the heyday of East
Germany's Stasi, to secretly provide information
to the government about any persons whom they
consider suspicious, and for the government to
set up a file on these persons. May potentially damage someone's record due to
innocent activities that are misunderstood or are
invented or enhanced by the caller because of a
personal vendetta. How the "tips" would be used has
been neither reported nor approved, nor have there
been assurances that anyone who is reported as
"suspicious" will be confronted with the evidence
against him/her and given an opportunity to correct it. USA PATRIOT Act and Executive Orders 7 Bill of Rights Defense Committee Amendment V "No person shall be held to answer for a … crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury…, nor shall be compelled in
any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused Attorney General's
approval of a Bureau of
Prisons emergency
surveillance order Removes requirement to obtain judicial permission before
listening in on conversations between prisoners (both prior to
trial and convicted) and their attorneys. A prisoner may be made to be a witness
against himself or herself. President Bush's Military
Order Establishes trials by military tribunal, at president's discretion,
for noncitizens. Denies "due process of law," which
applies not only to citizens but to all
"persons" in the United States. Allows
secret evidence and hearsay to be used
against the accused. President Bush's order
designating "Enemy
combatant" Allows committee of attorney general, defense secretary, and
CIA director to label citizens and noncitizens as "enemy
combatants,” placing them in military custody, holding them
in detention indefinitely, interrogating them, and denying
them communication with outsiders or judicial review. No opportunity to prove innocence.
Denial of "liberty without due process
of law." Attorney General's Edict
for Increased Surveillance
of Religious and Political
Organizations Rescinds anti-COINTELPRO regulations and authorizes the
FBI to monitor and surveil religious groups and political
groups without evidence of wrongdoing An unsuspecting participant in a
religious or political meeting may be
"compelled to be a witness against
himself." USAPA §412: Mandatory
detention of suspected
terrorists; habeas corpus;
judicial review Gives Attorney General broad powers to certify immigrants as
risks. Deprives immigrants of "liberty …
without due process of law." USA PATRIOT Act and Executive Orders 8 Bill of Rights Defense Committee Amendment VI "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district
wherein the crime shall have been committed … and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with
the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for
his defence."

Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused USAPA §412:
Mandatory detention of
suspected terrorists;
habeas corpus; judicial
review Gives Attorney General broad powers to certify
immigrants as risks. Infringes upon the rights "to a speedy and public trial,
by an impartial jury of the State and district…, to be
informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be
confronted with the witnesses against him," and "to have
the Assistance of Counsel for his defence." President Bush's order
designating "Enemy
combatant" Any U.S. citizen or noncitizen designated as an
enemy combatant may be placed in military
custody, held in detention indefinitely,
interrogated, and denied communication with
outsiders or judicial review. Infringes upon the rights "to a speedy and public trial,
by an impartial jury of the State and district…, to be
informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be
confronted with the witnesses against him," and "to have
the Assistance of Counsel for his defence." Attorney General's
approval of a Bureau of
Prisons emergency
surveillance order Removes requirement to obtain judicial
permission before listening in on conversations
between prisoners (both prior to trial and
convicted) and their attorneys. A prisoner who knows that law enforcement may listen
in on conversations with an attorney may forego the
right to ask for Counsel to aid in his or her defense. Amendment VIII "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

Title or Provision What It Says/What It Changes How it can be misused USAPA §412: Mandatory detention of suspected
terrorists; habeas corpus; judicial review Gives Attorney General broad powers to
certify immigrants as risks. May result in "cruel and unusual
punishments" (deportation). if(window.yzq_p==null)document.write("<scr"+"ipt language=javascript src=http://l.yimg.com/us.js.yimg.com/lib/bc/bc_2.0.4.js</scr"+"ipt"); if(window.yzq_p)yzq_p('P=TturpUoG70MNmGm4GX4CJgFpQBFGMUhOrmYADPcl&T=13tt9orfl%2fX%3d1213116007%2fE%3d96062901%2fR%3dyahoosrch%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d1.1%2fW%3dJ%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3d209171914%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d40EF064A'); if(window.yzq_s)yzq_s(); 



Now to me this is what the scriptures call Evil Men in High Places..Shalom...Miles

Show a link. Dont just make claims. Prove it!
Then, even if true, (doubt it) how would that make it any different? Even if you get a bunch of kids to fall for the unbased propaganda that they have been fed since birth by TV and schools, the facts still dont support their beliefs!
Facts are facts, and thats why almost every state is seeking an amendment added to their State Constitutions. Even the Federal gov wont touch it!

Won? Won what? The BSA won the law battle, but the GLBT has probably managed to destroy a great institution by suing them rather have the balls to start their own similar organization. Who won? Nobody, everyone lost. BSA lost, GLBT lost, and America's children lost!
Calif,- The Calif supreme court overturned laws which were voted in by the people of Calif. Who won? Definitely not the people of Calif!
Yet its on the ballot again and predictions are DOMA will become part of their States Constitution this fall. Even if the GLBT manages to get it passed, (long-shot) I dont see any winners. Definitely not the Calif tax-payers who will be burdened by marriages on paper only, domestic problems filling the courts, and Health/drug treatment programs drawing huge amounts from their State budget.
Even if married in Calif, the marriages will not be recognized once they cross the state line!
So who has won?

Last year in may with my fiance and her son present 2 nder cover officers came to my door while i was taking a shower. Told my fiance they were friends of mine from school. When i got out and dressed they approached me and asked if i remembered them i said no. Then they informed me that they had a warrant for my arrest. I asked to see the warrant it was yellow and at the top said."Caution Dangerous" I was taken to jail over night and released the next day. I complained what was this all about to my local sheriffs dept. They said they do not know what was going on they showed up and said they had a warrant for my arrest. The sheriffs dept told them they would go get me they knew me. They were told no. They would have nothing to do with this. I asked for a copy of the warrant that night and the next day. Everyone said that someone else had it. I finally went back to the sheriffs dept i had talked to earlier and they said we can bring it up on the computer. They searched and said they did not know what to tell me that thier was no warrant issued as far as they can tell. I still do not know why they did this as the sheriff dept said all warrants are whate and i said mine was yellow they said they never have seen a yellow warrant. I then came home and just asked my fiance if she remembered what color the warrant was . she said yellow. This can happen to any of us at any time and we can do nothing about it. I wonder if this part of the Patriot act is what they used..

USAPA §213: Authority
for delaying notice of the
execution of a warrant
(AKA "sneak and peek") Permits the government to search your home
with no one present and to delay notification
indefinitely. Court may authorize delayed
notification "if the court finds reasonable
cause to believe that providing immediate
notification … may have an adverse result." Unlike the former "knock and announce" policy, a
person whose home is to be searched cannot view the
warrant to make sure the address is correct or to make
sure that the agent adheres to the warrant's description
of what is to be searched.

This is BS and nothing but...Miles

I agree! Its BS!

Nope. It is to give the government authority ultimate powers. It basically gives the president.. whoever he or she is, the power of a dictator just like Hitler. In fact, after a government building was bombed in Germany, Hitler got a similar act passed that gave him his power as dictator.

The patriot act takes away your rights. Plain and simple. If the government so choses to do so.

JB

Is this a parrot singing ?. I am talking about X and you are talking about Z . Did I say anything about " God " ,relief...etc. In life there is right and wrong : all people of this planet ought to fight for what is right and not to be silenced by stupid propaganda . I have no time to waste on something so obvious . I invite you to read all my posts vis a vis this thread .

All the things you mention are called the terrany of the majority. Just because the Majority of people think that slavery is a good idea that does not mean they can in slave people. The minority in that situation has rights that cannot be taken away by any majority.
When I talk about winning I mean that today you and people like you will argue over this and say it is wrong. However the next generation has already bought into equal everything for Homosexuals. There are even Churches that are starting to ordain Gay Ministers. We have woman preachers today that people in the past said was a sin, we know that slavery is wrong even though the Bible was used to back it just 150 yrs ago.
Society changes, the church changes, even the interpretation of the Bible changes. It doesn't take a genius (or Nostradamus's) to see that the future society will accept homosexuality and so will the Church.

Peace in truth

Weak argument!

Being gay and being of a different race have nothing in common.
I have yet to hear of homosexuals being slaves, but I have heard of Homosexual slave owners.

The gay community often uses this argument to gain support from others, but it has no validity! Its a propaganda technique!

Just because people dont want the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman belittled, or their children exposed to the immorality of homosexuality as a norm of society, does not make a homosexual black or relate any commonality to slavery.

Homosexuals aren't treated less than animals. Homosexuals families aren't separated and sold off to different owners.
Homosexuals aren't forced to work in hot humid fields from daylight to dark. Homosexuals aren't chased down with dogs when they run away. Homosexuals aren't whipped for trying to learn or talking back. Homosexuals aren't hung for looking at a white woman. All that is not, has not ever been legal for another person to do to Homosexuals.
I dont now, or have ever seen how y'all get a comparison between being gay, and being a slave or black.

I agree with you , Fanta




that is soooo true !!!