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| Topic: the belief that destroyed the world | |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Wed 05/07/08 11:58 AM
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why do people have a "belief" that they have the right to believe what they want to believe? ...if that was true then tell of a rational thought you had that no one else ever said ..I bet you can't.... but if you could... whatever that rational thought would be no matter what..it would change the world if you have a firm belief that 2+2=5 and who knows there may actually be a rational way to prove that but if one cannot supply a rational answer or claim faith or feeling that the answer is right then one should consider that there is a slight chance that the belief or their thinking may be delusional, and a rational person would not blame others for thinking the same since the one making the claim that 2+2=5 cannot come up with a rational answer as to why it is you may believe you have the right to any belief and that may be so.. but only if you keep that belief to yourself but once the belief is expressed it then has the potential to effect others and that is why any and all beliefs that is uttered or written must be challenged since man's survival required that he feeds on death to live would mean that all his religious beliefs are geared to follow that same concept ..so if you have a belief that your belief will save the world then most likely that belief is designed to control or destroyed the world...if I'm wrong then simply reveal how your religious or spiritual belief would save the world ..if you cannot do that then you have just become enlighten to the fact why others will and must challenge that belief ..because your belief could be the one that will help destroy the world Funches. very intersting point. I agree with you. The world and its immutibility as a stage for man is as suspect as 2+2=5. History and archaeology have evidenced that man is a very temporal component of the stage, and quite a destructive one at that in the arrogance displayed by the continual rape and disparaging destruction of the natural habitat that sustains man's very own potential. In that regard alone, I can accept survival of the fittest as a doctrinal theory suggesting the blatant and glaring possibility that man is not long for this world. In any case, I rejoice over the magnificence of creation and the earth's bounty. I am grateful for the opportunity to behold this life and have lived it well and experienced tremendous pleasure and pain, witnessed good and evil, partaken of the same, gone this way and that and studied black and white and every imaginable shade between the two. The awesome splendor is not lost on me. I am thankful and not bitter. But as the world turns, it turns not because of me but rather for me. I am not above realizing that it is respectful for me to consider that. That I will not grace the presence of the stage forever is part of the play which is also a prolog and epilog I didn't come here knowing where I would go, but being here has revealed that to me. Jesus led the way, and where he leads, I will follow. I especially like his remarks, " Let the dead bury the dead...follow me." Have a wonderful day, and I enjoy your thread, my friend. peace.   
Wouldee
It does not take a belief in god to be amazed and appreciative of this wonderful life we have been given. I am totally grateful to be here and to live each day as a new adventure in my quest of living my life to the best of my ability and it does not come from a belief in god. It comes from the thrill of life in me. It comes from the freedom of my spirit to experience all of these days until I am here no more. It comes from the joy of life itself. I breath this air, I walk and talk. I interact with other living things. All of these are joys of daily living. No god is needed for this appreciation of life. It should be natural for someone to appreciate every breath they take, every sight, smell, feeling. They are all the blessing of life. |
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So the answer is no. Fine, I have no interest in talking to you anymore. I will ignore your posts as if they were never made. Your words are but the howling of the wind. That's fine with me. I'm not necessarily conversing with you anyway. I'm just bouncing off your comments for the sake of the forum in general. My reply was never meant to be a personal email to you. There is no need to respond to it. I have no desire to change your personal views. I seriously don't. If you are happy and content in what you believe I think that's wonderful.
I'm merely sharing why I don't feel the same way. My post was never intended as a personal confrontation. It’s just food for thought for anyone who is interested in reading it. |
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Wouldee
It does not take a belief in god to be amazed and appreciative of this wonderful life we have been given. I am totally grateful to be here and to live each day as a new adventure in my quest of living my life to the best of my ability and it does not come from a belief in god. It comes from the thrill of life in me. It comes from the freedom of my spirit to experience all of these days until I am here no more. It comes from the joy of life itself. I breath this air, I walk and talk. I interact with other living things. All of these are joys of daily living. No god is needed for this appreciation of life. It should be natural for someone to appreciate every breath they take, every sight, smell, feeling. They are all the blessing of life. I'd just like to show support and agreement with what Dragoness said here and add the following,... With respect to the teachings of Jesus, it is not necessary to become a Christian to admire the man and respect his moral philosophy on life. It is totally incorrect to suggest that non-Christians are anti-Jesus or that they are somehow denouncing his moral values. I think what most people don’t realize is that I have great respect and admiration for that part of the Jesus-story. I believe that if there is some sort of heaven where individual souls are united like a high school reunion, that Jesus would definitely view me as his “follower” as far as moral value are concerned. Although I don’t even think he would view it that way, I think he would be more likely to view me as someone who just happens to coincidentally have the same moral values that he has. After all, it’s pretty hard to ‘follow’ someone when they think just like you! Who’s following whom when two people agree? It’s just not necessary to embrace the biblical story to embrace Christ-like morals. When I read the moral values of Jesus in the bible I just shake my head in agreement and say, “Ok tell me something I don’t already know” I just don’t do the things that Jesus preached not to do. In fact, I feel very sorry for anyone who needs Christianity to teach them moral values. It’s a real shame they couldn’t figure that out on their own is all I can say. You shouldn’t have to read in a book that it’s wrong to harm others. You should just know that innately. The idea that Christianity represents higher moral values than all other philosophies is total hogwash. In fact, if you take pantheism as an example, it would say to not only apply those values to other men, but to also apply them to animals as well. That has to be a “step above”. With pantheism the same morals are being applied to a larger context. That actually a superior morality.
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I would also like to say that 10 + 10= 100 cause its true. 
10+10=100? ...wow Chazster you must be using that new math... because I always figure 10x10=100 Actually 10 + 10 = 100. If you are looking at it the right way. Let me give you a hint. I never said ten + ten = one hundred. I said 10 + 10 = 100. Its simple if you know what I am talking about. Chazster ... we are typing and people mis-spell words or place decimal points or periods in the wrong places ..so if I wanted an eye test I will go to the DMV ...could you just debate without playing reindeer games .. I was giving people a chance to figure it out. Seeing that a lot of computer people come here I was hoping someone would say it. Anyway its Binary. 10 or one then zero is binary for 2 100 is binary for 4. I was basically saying 2 + 2 = 4 but I was doing it using binary math. Was just trying to make a point that while you may think something is wrong (say 10 + 10 = 100), it may in fact be right. It just depends on the meaning and how you look at it. that's the same tactics that television commercials use to trick people into buying something and using fine print at the bottom of the screen to small to read to fool people into believing one thing when then know it means something else...it's somewhat dishonest practices ... |
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but, poof!!! I was born again 
now it's His turn. But then, that's my Cross to bear, Funches.
I can see a lot more from up here. i think I see your house
peace
ok so you only "think" you can see my house which is your way of saying that you can only make an assumption ..and that's how the rest of that post should be viewed ..you making assumptions That is assumptive in and of itself. sounds like OCD, my friend.
I am laughing with you Funches. all the way down the rabbit hole.
got a flashlight?
wouldee you made the claim that you or jesus can see my house ...then describe it...if you can't or Jesus can't tell you then you are making assumptions ....the point of the thread is about not venturing off into fastasyland |
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If you want to just live on the principle that all men are egalitarian brothers and should love one another, then I suggest you become a pantheist, because that’s more closer to the core belief of pantheism than it is to Christianity. Pantheism believes that we are all just one big family and there is no Satan at war with God.
Amen Abra!!
It was long, but very precise, polite, and logical. Very good points. I would like to hear an equally practical and logical reply from Spider or any other Christian without all the drama. JB |
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This incessant and insulting offensive tactic is at the core of the problem in these threads.
In what way is anything I’ve said insulting? All I’m doing is stating the facts Wouldee. Why should you find that insulting? The core belief of Christianity is not brotherly love, but rather it is a relentless insistence that the biblical account of God’s laws be given the ultimately authority and respect. Anyone who tries to make Christianity into something other than that is just abusing the label. All they are doing is stealing the label of Christianity and trying to make it into something its not. The problem with Christianity is that you can’t just preach the teachings of Jesus without simultaneously supporting the whole Old Testament. Jesus is nothing on his own. Without the old testament and a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices the crucifixion is meaningless. And even with the Old Testament it’s just a story about a God who ends up being a blood sacrifice to appease himself. He has to have men commit yet another murder in order to forgive them of their sins. It doesn’t even make any sense at all. This is supposed to be an all-wise God? Surely an all-wise God could come up with better solutions than having to have men commit murder so he could forgive them. This story may make sense to you, but it totally flies in the face of anything I would even consider to be remotely reasonable. And if you find that insulting or offensive I seriously don’t understand Wouldee. It’s just my sincere honest perception of this whole archaic picture. If I’m going to be honest with God I would have to tell God the very same thing. If somehow the picture turns out to true (which would be like an episode of the Outer Limits), then I’d have to be honest with the biblical God and say, “From my point of view you really aren’t a very good creator at all. What was with the obsession with so much blood and violience?” That honesty Wouldee. And if I can’t be honest with God then who can I be honest with? Why should I bow down to a picture that I see as being totally absurd? I don’t believe God is like that story at all. If he truly wanted to preach brotherly love why didn’t he lead by example instead of demaning blood sacrifices for sins? What’s that got to do with brotherly love? It’s like saying, “Go kill something and I’ll forgive you”. What the point in that? I thought God didn’t want us to kill things. It’s a story about a God who sends extremely mixed messages. That's just the facts. No facts here Just false teachings from you. You know nothing about Christianity. |
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why do people have a "belief" that they have the right to believe what they want to believe? ...if that was true then tell of a rational thought you had that no one else ever said ..I bet you can't.... but if you could... whatever that rational thought would be no matter what..it would change the world if you have a firm belief that 2+2=5 and who knows there may actually be a rational way to prove that but if one cannot supply a rational answer or claim faith or feeling that the answer is right then one should consider that there is a slight chance that the belief or their thinking may be delusional, and a rational person would not blame others for thinking the same since the one making the claim that 2+2=5 cannot come up with a rational answer as to why it is you may believe you have the right to any belief and that may be so.. but only if you keep that belief to yourself but once the belief is expressed it then has the potential to effect others and that is why any and all beliefs that is uttered or written must be challenged since man's survival required that he feeds on death to live would mean that all his religious beliefs are geared to follow that same concept ..so if you have a belief that your belief will save the world then most likely that belief is designed to control or destroyed the world...if I'm wrong then simply reveal how your religious or spiritual belief would save the world ..if you cannot do that then you have just become enlighten to the fact why others will and must challenge that belief ..because your belief could be the one that will help destroy the world Funches. very intersting point. I agree with you. The world and its immutibility as a stage for man is as suspect as 2+2=5. History and archaeology have evidenced that man is a very temporal component of the stage, and quite a destructive one at that in the arrogance displayed by the continual rape and disparaging destruction of the natural habitat that sustains man's very own potential. In that regard alone, I can accept survival of the fittest as a doctrinal theory suggesting the blatant and glaring possibility that man is not long for this world. In any case, I rejoice over the magnificence of creation and the earth's bounty. I am grateful for the opportunity to behold this life and have lived it well and experienced tremendous pleasure and pain, witnessed good and evil, partaken of the same, gone this way and that and studied black and white and every imaginable shade between the two. The awesome splendor is not lost on me. I am thankful and not bitter. But as the world turns, it turns not because of me but rather for me. I am not above realizing that it is respectful for me to consider that. That I will not grace the presence of the stage forever is part of the play which is also a prolog and epilog I didn't come here knowing where I would go, but being here has revealed that to me. Jesus led the way, and where he leads, I will follow. I especially like his remarks, " Let the dead bury the dead...follow me." Have a wonderful day, and I enjoy your thread, my friend. peace.
Wouldee
It does not take a belief in god to be amazed and appreciative of this wonderful life we have been given. I am totally grateful to be here and to live each day as a new adventure in my quest of living my life to the best of my ability and it does not come from a belief in god. It comes from the thrill of life in me. It comes from the freedom of my spirit to experience all of these days until I am here no more. It comes from the joy of life itself. I breath this air, I walk and talk. I interact with other living things. All of these are joys of daily living. No god is needed for this appreciation of life. It should be natural for someone to appreciate every breath they take, every sight, smell, feeling. They are all the blessing of life. cool I agree. Fortunate it is. we share that love of creation. Just from where I stand, that includes God. But yeah.
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but, poof!!! I was born again
now it's His turn. But then, that's my Cross to bear, Funches.
I can see a lot more from up here. i think I see your house
peace
ok so you only "think" you can see my house which is your way of saying that you can only make an assumption ..and that's how the rest of that post should be viewed ..you making assumptions That is assumptive in and of itself. sounds like OCD, my friend.
I am laughing with you Funches. all the way down the rabbit hole.
got a flashlight?
wouldee you made the claim that you or jesus can see my house ...then describe it...if you can't or Jesus can't tell you then you are making assumptions ....the point of the thread is about not venturing off into fastasyland It is still a carnal house, Funches. well maintained too. I am a fan of staying on top of the old flesh too. metaphor, my friend. metaphor. peace
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In what way is anything I’ve said insulting?
All I’m doing is stating the facts Wouldee. Why should you find that insulting? Wouldee seems to get insulted a lot. |
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In what way is anything I’ve said insulting?
All I’m doing is stating the facts Wouldee. Why should you find that insulting? Wouldee seems to get insulted a lot. why am i not surprised that you are on the Abra bandwagon, and without even the slightest compunction? I am not insulted. There are no facts from Abra. he is a false teacher of Christianity. It might soothe you, but it is false. learn , grow, and be at peace |
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In what way is anything I’ve said insulting?
All I’m doing is stating the facts Wouldee. Why should you find that insulting? Wouldee seems to get insulted a lot. why am i not surprised that you are on the Abra bandwagon, and without even the slightest compunction? I am not insulted. There are no facts from Abra. he is a false teacher of Christianity. It might soothe you, but it is false. learn , grow, and be at peace Put a sock in it. 
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It's when people have lost sight of the core beliefs that Jesus lived and died to teach us that Christians become willing to fight for their beliefs Jesus didn't fight for his beliefs..his mission was one of suicide Point being...? That has nothing to do with what I posted. you said that Jesus fought for his beliefs ...well in a sense maybe Jesus fought to get himself killed ..but I'm not sure Jesus told christians to fight beyond the mind or in a physical sense because wasn't his message supposely that of peace and love but anyway you were suppose to reveal how Jesus's beliefs could save the world ...but isn't preaching to followers that by following his teaching they would learn the correct way to die actually falls into the category of controlling or destroying the world |
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It’s a total lie to say that Christianity is concerned with brotherly love as its core belief.
If an evangelist comes to me and start’s preaching. What is it that they want from me? To agree that brotherly love should be the principle upon which we live? If I agree with them that this is true, and I already live by that principle will they throw their hands in the air and praise God and say, “Welcome to Christianity Bother”? No, they most certainly will not! Believing in brotherly love has nothing to do with it. In fact, if an evangelist should happen upon a gay couple they would proclaim that it is sinful for brothers to love each other so much! Christianity is actually against vehemently brotherly love! The only things that Christians are concerned with is that everyone confess that Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and that the Bible is the word of God and must be firmly respected and obeyed as such. They couldn’t care less about brother love. They will denounce love in a split second if it disagrees with their real core belief. Christianity is about worshiping the laws in an ancient archaic book and insisting the Jesus Christ is the Lord of Lords. It’s not about anything else. People will kill their bothers for this core belief and historically they have killed many! It’s not about brotherly love at all. 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 05/08/08 10:40 AM
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Very good point Abra. If Christianity is ONLY about brotherly love, there probably would not be so many wars. In fact if all religions were about brotherly love or divine love there would be NO WAR.
But the snag and the bait in a lot of cults and religions is the brotherly love thing. My sister was snagged by that within the Jehovah witness religion. She needed and wanted love. Not soon thereafter they began telling her how to live and what all she was doing wrong and how she was living in sin by living with her boyfriend without being married.... blah blah blah. They wanted her to quit smoking, quit drinking, quit living with her boyfriend and on and on. They laid guilt trips on her and made her very depressed and ruined her self esteem. She was soon burdened with guilt and very depressed. Thankfully she got out of that cult. This is where I have contempt and attitude with religions. I see them hurt the people I love. When that begins, I get upset. JB |
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Edited by
wouldee
on
Thu 05/08/08 11:04 AM
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It’s a total lie to say that Christianity is concerned with brotherly love as its core belief. If an evangelist comes to me and start’s preaching. What is it that they want from me? To agree that brotherly love should be the principle upon which we live? If I agree with them that this is true, and I already live by that principle will they throw their hands in the air and praise God and say, “Welcome to Christianity Bother”? No, they most certainly will not! Believing in brotherly love has nothing to do with it. In fact, if an evangelist should happen upon a gay couple they would proclaim that it is sinful for brothers to love each other so much! Christianity is actually against vehemently brotherly love! The only things that Christians are concerned with is that everyone confess that Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and that the Bible is the word of God and must be firmly respected and obeyed as such. They couldn’t care less about brother love. They will denounce love in a split second if it disagrees with their real core belief. Christianity is about worshiping the laws in an ancient archaic book and insisting the Jesus Christ is the Lord of Lords. It’s not about anything else. People will kill their bothers for this core belief and historically they have killed many! It’s not about brotherly love at all.
Abra. 
Christianity is a way of life. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the Life." Jesus also said, "No man comes to the Father, but by me." Jesus also said, "You must be born again" Jesus also said, "They that believe in God, also believe that the Father has sent me." Jesus also said,"My Father and I are one" Jesus also said, " But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled, that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. But when the Comforter is come, Whom I will send onto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.. That is found in John 15: 25-27. in any , every and all Bibles. "hated me without cause" is brotherly love . But whose brother would do that? You never quote John 15. Why? O great one?
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Everyone has a right to read and interpret the Bible. I am not attempting to teach Christianity (as I have been accused by Wouldee.)
But I do reserve the right to read the Bible and interpret it and express what I see and understand of it as everyone else does. Here is my opinion on Wouldee's statements. Christianity is a way of life.
Of course it is. So is every other religion. Even the Atkins diet is a way of life. Eckankar is a way of life. Buddhism is a way of life. Pantheism is a way of life. [Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the Life." Here he allowed the I AM (which is Love, the prime source) to speak from him. This I Am presence is living in all of us and can sometimes speak to us and through us. "Love is the way and the truth and the life." "God is Love." Jesus also said, "No man comes to the Father, but by me."
"No man comes to the Father (prime source, creator) but by Love." "God is love." In order to ascend to higher states of being, you must travel through the higher self that is you, and is connected ultimately to the Father (creator). You have to understand it was not Jesus speaking. It was his higher self connected to the creator that was speaking to him. It was telling him (Jesus) that the way back to the Father,(creator) was through the higher self. Jesus also said, "You must be born again"
This means the realization of yourself as being connected to and part of God, and the starting of a new way of life of love. "God is Love." Jesus also said,
"They that believe in God, also believe that the Father has sent me." Jesus was a messenger and a teacher, who incarnated here by his choice and is ultimately connected to the prime creator who sent a stream of life into the lower worlds to incarnate as human. Jesus also said,"My Father and I are one"
We are all one with prime source. We are all connected. He was expressing his connection with God and his creator which is a connection that means he is one with God. He and God are one. I don't believe he was trying to claim that he was the highest God of all, meant to rule over others. I believe he was expressing his own consciousness of God. Very much in line with pantheism. JB |
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No.
Not at all. He is God and is the Creator's word. That is the whole point that disallows pantheism standing on Christianity to support itself. Pantheism falls o its own lack of merit as a false teaching when viewed in the light of distortions of Christianity to make itself plausable. It is an unecessary redundancy thaty assumes that Chirstianity is not sufficiently expressed in that which is already given. The only thing that will change Christianity is the culmination of the end of the Church Age. When that occurs, there will be a finshed work, called the "full house". Until then, Jeannie, pantheism can only be taught as an independent discipline. There is no congruence for it to adopt its efficacy from The Holy Bible. Support for it as a machination of the Holy Bible only proves that is a lie that can only stand on the villification and distortion of the Holy Bible. Teach it and embrace it wihout lying about the Holy Bible's contents and character and no problem exists here in these threads. Distortions and lies are nothing more than a hidden agenda espousing lies and deceit to inflame and offend and insult Christianity. It is what it is,,..HATRED and ill will seejking a victim. Remove the crutch that is being employed and then see what it does for itself. That will alwauys remain unmolested by Christians. The molestation occuring in these threads is best exemplified by the efforts of fraudulent means through which hate and disrespect continue to surface for what they are in truth. LIES!!!!!!!! |
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Well of course you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
Pantheism does not need the Bible for support. I was only showing how a pantheist might interpret any scripture, or any spiritual writing. The writings of the Bible don't rule out pantheism to one who sees pantheism as a way of life. It is just an opinion. I am entitled to express it. I am sorry if you feel it is some sort of attack on Christianity. It is not. JB |
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The bottom line.......nothing you say or do will change what is.....what was......and what will be.......
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